bullet size .455 Webley - I slugged!

[cheggie]

Hi all,

I've got an old Webley MkVI, and I slugged the cylinder throat and barrel. The cylinder throat measures .450" and the barrel measures .448" id. I would guess .452" lead bullets would suit, but I loaded up some RNL .452" flat base the other day and got mediocre accuracy. I have no doubt the bullets are fully engaged in the rifling. The barrel slug is perfect - nice crisp grooves all the way around. These bullets seem a little on the hard side, I know it wants soft lead and a hollow base, but shouldn't these measured dimensions match a .452" bullet well? Is a .454" ok in a tight barrel like this? I had a very good fit on the dowel used to drive these through, and it took a few whacks with a hammer, the slug did not just ease down the bore or the throat.

I'll try again, my revolver skills may be rusty. I used to have a New Service .455 Ely (converted to .45 colt) and it was very accurate - effortless really.

Thanks for any help,
Chris in SC

[Bigslug]

Funny you should bring this up - I just did the same thing last week.

I slugged with fresh-cast .455 bullets out of my hollow-base RCBS 265 grain Webley clone mold that had not yet been sized. Alloy is a fairly soft 23-1 range scrap.

The slug came out of the bore at .450" for the groove diameter. We sized the rest of them at .452" and seated them in Hornady .455 cases with 4 grains of Unique.

I have not yet finished the experiment (chronographing), but the first range trip put these loads EXACTLY at point of aim at ten yards, which I figured was all the BEF had in mind anyway. Don't think I'm going to mess with anything.

My next experiment will be with the .38 caliber MKIV, which I haven't been able to get a good slug reading off of yet because all my existing slugs are out of too small .358" molds. The .364" mold should arrive tomorrow, and then I'll be able to decide if I need a .361, .362, or .363 sizer.

[cheggie]

My bore seems to measure around .448/9", with the grooves at .450". I'm finding hollow base bullets with diameters from .452" to .455". Will the .455" bullets swedge down alright in this thing? I'm a little baffled that the .452 flat base did not work so well. How much difference is needed to ensure the bullet obturates to the bore?

[Bigslug]

By your own admission, marksmanship may be the issue, so I would suggest someone else try shooting the same load before you go reinventing the wheel.

I'm still a relative newbie at this game, but lack of obturation might be an issue. My instinct is that any charge able to compress lead into the rifling and get a bullet out the bore is also going to squish the base into the grooves, but it ain't necessarily so - especially at the timid velocities of a Webley. Your slugs may very well be too hard for the gun. The sticky "From Ingot to Target" at the top of the thread listings has some excellent things to say on choosing alloys for particular applications. Might be worth your time.

[blackthorn]

If your measurements are correct at Throat-450 and Groove-448, you should only need to use bullets at 450+ a bit. At 452 you are already over groove by 0.004 and you should not need to go any larger. In fact you may even be a hair too large now. Try bullets sized at 250.

[jethunter]

I think the problem is probably the hardness of your bullets, not the size.

The rifling on these revolvers was shallow to start with and on most of the survivors it is at least somewhat worn and rounded. Harder bullets don't always effectively engage this rifling. An oversize soft boolit will usually shoot markedly better than a harder bullet. Loads that are too mild can also shoot poorly since they don't expand the base with enough force to grip the rifling. 4 gr of Unique should do the job though.

In the revolvers with smaller throat than groove diameter a soft HB bullet may be the only answer. I commonly shoot HB 30-1 bullets that are .002-.003"" oversize with good results. Even the revolvers with quite worn rifling can usually be made to shoot reasonably well if good soft lead HB boolits are used, but they might need a slightly stiffer powder charge to make them grab hold of the rifling.

[Bigslug]

I think the problem is probably the hardness of your bullets, not the size.

For what it's worth Cheggie, the slugs I recently cast were from a range scrap alloy that hardness-tested as being roughly a 23-1 alloy


In the revolvers with smaller throat than groove diameter a soft HB bullet may be the only answer.

If you do eventually pick up the RCBS Webley mold (which the coolness factor of the gun kind of demands), you'll probably need to run a little bit hotter to ensure a clean fill of the hollow base. It's a beautiful bullet once the mold starts to behave.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I use the lyman 45 caliber minie ball mold in my tight throated Webley MK VI(autorim converted).It shoots 5" at 20 yards with .452 dia solids and 2" sometimes with the HB Lyman bullet.it looks weird but you can find the molds used under $50 about any time.It's cheaper than the RCBS bullet.
Also Unique shot noticeably worse than Clays or other faster stuff.Velocity with 4g of Clays is right at 700 FPS and all you want to go with a 265 slug.its right on to the sights as well.

targets with purple are Clays ones in green are trail boss.All are the Lyman454613

click pic to enlarge

[Wolfer]

I use the lyman 45 caliber minie ball mold in my tight throated Webley MK VI(autorim converted).It shoots 5" at 20 yards with .452 dia solids and 2" sometimes with the HB Lyman bullet.it looks weird but you can find the molds used under $50 about any time.It's cheaper than the RCBS bullet.
Also Unique shot noticeably worse than Clays or other faster stuff.Velocity with 4g of Clays is right at 700 FPS and all you want to go with a 265 slug.its right on to the sights as well.

My Webley has also been converted. I shoot the lee 228-1R with a bhn of about 9 or 10 with 4 gr of clays. Don't remember the velocity but if you hold the front sight at the base of a grouse head you won't have to eat tuna for supper.
This gun shot so well with this load I never bothered slugging it.

[HARRYMPOPE]

some that were converted had the throats opened up.

[Bigslug]

My first MKVI is an ACP/Auto Rim conversion that I shoot with the RCBS bullet using ACP cases in moon clips. With the added volume of the ACP, I decided that my usual Unique wasn't the way to go and went with 3.3 grains of the much bulkier Trail Boss instead. As I recall, it chronoed not far off the military Webley velocity and it shoots minute of Hun (my usual accepted accuracy standard for such things.)

[HARRYMPOPE]

My first MKVI is an ACP/Auto Rim conversion that I shoot with the RCBS bullet using ACP cases in moon clips. With the added volume of the ACP, I decided that my usual Unique wasn't the way to go and went with 3.3 grains of the much bulkier Trail Boss instead. As I recall, it chronoed not far off the military Webley velocity and it shoots minute of Hun (my usual accepted accuracy standard for such things.)

Yup i agree for plinkin' and can rollin' about any load is good enough.With my 4.0 of TB is was only 650 FPS.
George

[MtGun44]

Try .450 and .451 with those throat dimensions. I normally start at throat dimensions and
then also try throat +.001. If these are still not so good, I will go up to throat +.002. I
have not found hard pistol boolits to be as forgiving as softer, and no gain to be found
for harder, even with .44 mag and .357 mag at full velocity or near it.

Bill

[HARRYMPOPE]

.451-.452 bullets at 12-14 BHN in my Web' scattered all over the target.The .448 groove barrel dim's are the smallest i have heard for a Webley.Mine runs closer to .457 as do others i have seen.So far for me my HB has been the only way to make it shoot acceptably.

[cheggie]

It's .450 groove if my measurement is correct. I want to see how this thing shoots, so I ordered a .452 diameter soft lead hb to try. Thanks for all the information, I'll look into the mold if this pans out. I don't plan to shoot it TOO much. When it cools off shortly, I've got a load of WW to process.