Federal vs wolf vs cci

[southpaw]

I bought a brick of cci's quiets. I wasn't sure how much of a arc they would have so I gave them a once over the other day. I also shot some federal american eagle and wolf match target for comparison. I tried to keep the zero for each at 25 yards but wasn't perfect.

First I checked the zero for each one before I shot it at the target. I then fired 3 shots at 15 yards, 5 shots at 25, 35 and 50 yards. I fired 6 shots at the 35 yard line with the quiets because I wanted a little better idea of the group since it was opening up (that and its fun watching the boolit hit the target). There is also an extra one by the dot because I forgot what target I was shooting at.

Groups were shot with a cz 452 (the one with the curved stock and the military sights) with a 6-24 (gasp) tasco mounted on it. I have not measured it but the scope is atleast 2" above the bore.

Incase you can't make it out the federals are on the left, wolfs in the middle and the quiets on the right. Top was fired at 15 yards then 25, 35 and 50.

Jerry Jr.

[Jack Stanley]

Nice groups ! .... I suppose that means the rifle won't be for sale anytime soon ;)

I've recently fired a little of the American Eagle alongside the Federal Champion and both turned in groups much like yours . The Wolf "match target" ammo shot very well too but always hit lower on the target compared to the others . The only CCI reference in the non-magmun line is the Blazers and they work really well in every rifle I've tried them in .

Now that you know what shoots well in your rifle , isn't it time to go buy a couple cases of ammo for it :smile:

Jack

[jh45gun]

I really like the quiet ammo and at 25 yards it shoots tight clover leafs out of my Marlin 80 DL at 25 yards. Of course every rimfire is different on what it likes but my S&W 22A loves it as well.

[429421Cowboy]

Very through test and you made it very easy for slow witted fellers like me to understand! Supprising that the quiet ammo kept up so well with the standard stuff and also seemed pretty acccurate! I may pick up some quiet ammo to try because it's about sweet corn season so the garden will be a target rich enviroment!

[southpaw]

Sorry Jack! If it was mine I would probably take a thousand dollars for it but my boy already claimed it so no, not for sale!

I can't complain about any of the groups. My main goal for this was to see what velocity level would be best for shots at squirrel heads out to 50 yards. I didn't want to have to hold high at 50 yards or low at 25. It looks like both the federal ae and the wolf will fill my needs.

If you miss the squirrel for what ever reason with the wolf ammo they don't seem to be as nervous. Most of the time they give you a second try, unless you just shot the acorn that he was eating out of his paws!

On a side note about the quiets they hit about 2" lower at 25 yards than the federals did. So, for me, if I wanted to shoot just the quiets I will need to rezero for them. Also barrel length made a big difference in how quiet they are. Shot out of a cricket they are not so quiet. They are a little harder to chamber for some reason too.

Jerry Jr.

[Forrest r]

A little food for thought about the rimfire ammo that you tested.

The CCI quiets are junk plain & simple as you’ve already found out. They are designed for close range pest control (garden, think the old pmc moderators). They are a close range only ammo.

The wolf is a excellent target round that is a supper 25yd ammo. The wolf ammo is known for having a couple light rounds per box that will cause fliers/low shots at the 50yd range. That’s why this ammo makes a good practice ammo but better, more consistent ammo is used for competition by serous competitors. The other thing to keep in mind about this ammo is the fact that it is a match ammo & is extremely temperature sensitive. Most people that shoot/use wolf ammo will not use it when the temperature drops below 60*. The wolf ammo becomes erratic in cold weather & the accuracy of the ammo will fall off dermatically. I’m sure you’ve heard of biathlon ammo, its match grade ammo that’s designed to be used in cold weather. You’re standard match grade ammo’s made by Eley, Lapua (they also make wolf & SK ammo); rws, Fiocchi and other will not shoot well in cold weather.

A hot ammo like the federal ae will do better in the cold weather. What you are seeing on your test target is the bullets going transonic around the 50yd line. That’s why you’re seeing excellent groups out to 35yds & then it looks like the ammo fell apart. The federal ae will perform better in cold weather & the speed of sound will be lower in cold weather allowing the bullets to go out further before they go transonic.

You should retest the ammo you’re planning on using when it’s colder out. It will be a real eye opener if you retest the ammo in 40* weather & compare the results you get to your warm weather tests. The other thing you should be looking for is cold bbl first shot fliers. Some 22’s have them & they are worthless for hunting unless you can get the squirrel to sit still for a couple of warm up shots to get the bbl hot enough to shoot to the sights/scope point of aim.

Just something to think about.

[frnkeore]

The Wolf match is excellent ammo and is what I would use if the price is right for you and you have a good supply.

I personally think CCI Blaser is the best cheap ammo on the market for rifles. It won't shoot with the Wolf but, it will out shoot any of the other common ammo encluding the Fed 711b.

For pistols, the Blasers take 2nd place to the Fed Champion. I actually couldn't see any differance between the regualar Champion and the 711b, in either rifle or pistol but, they charge more for the 711b.

Frank

[jh45gun]

A little food for thought about the rimfire ammo that you tested.

The CCI quiets are junk plain & simple as you’ve already found out. They are designed for close range pest control (garden, think the old pmc moderators). They are a close range only ammo.

The wolf is a excellent target round that is a supper 25yd ammo. The wolf ammo is known for having a couple light rounds per box that will cause fliers/low shots at the 50yd range. That’s why this ammo makes a good practice ammo but better, more consistent ammo is used for competition by serous competitors. The other thing to keep in mind about this ammo is the fact that it is a match ammo & is extremely temperature sensitive. Most people that shoot/use wolf ammo will not use it when the temperature drops below 60*. The wolf ammo becomes erratic in cold weather & the accuracy of the ammo will fall off dermatically. I’m sure you’ve heard of biathlon ammo, its match grade ammo that’s designed to be used in cold weather. You’re standard match grade ammo’s made by Eley, Lapua (they also make wolf & SK ammo); rws, Fiocchi and other will not shoot well in cold weather.

A hot ammo like the federal ae will do better in the cold weather. What you are seeing on your test target is the bullets going transonic around the 50yd line. That’s why you’re seeing excellent groups out to 35yds & then it looks like the ammo fell apart. The federal ae will perform better in cold weather & the speed of sound will be lower in cold weather allowing the bullets to go out further before they go transonic.

You should retest the ammo you’re planning on using when it’s colder out. It will be a real eye opener if you retest the ammo in 40* weather & compare the results you get to your warm weather tests. The other thing you should be looking for is cold bbl first shot fliers. Some 22’s have them & they are worthless for hunting unless you can get the squirrel to sit still for a couple of warm up shots to get the bbl hot enough to shoot to the sights/scope point of aim.

Just something to think about.

You full of it saying the quiet is junk it fills a nitch for pest control or quiet squirrel hunting and of course it is not going to keep up with hotter shooting ammo but for what it does it is great it beats the heck out of CB Longs or Shorts. If your an inch a half high at 25 your right on at 50 yards that is more useful than just short range pest control. My Marlin 80 DL shoots clover leaf groups at 25 yards and accurate enough at 50 for head shots on squirrels.

[jh45gun]

Sorry Jack! If it was mine I would probably take a thousand dollars for it but my boy already claimed it so no, not for sale!

I can't complain about any of the groups. My main goal for this was to see what velocity level would be best for shots at squirrel heads out to 50 yards. I didn't want to have to hold high at 50 yards or low at 25. It looks like both the federal ae and the wolf will fill my needs.

If you miss the squirrel for what ever reason with the wolf ammo they don't seem to be as nervous. Most of the time they give you a second try, unless you just shot the acorn that he was eating out of his paws!

On a side note about the quiets they hit about 2" lower at 25 yards than the federals did. So, for me, if I wanted to shoot just the quiets I will need to rezero for them. Also barrel length made a big difference in how quiet they are. Shot out of a cricket they are not so quiet. They are a little harder to chamber for some reason too.

Jerry Jr.

For the record CCI says that if your an inch and a half high at 25 yards you will be on at 50. I tried this and it is true that is the trajectory. What Forest said about close range pest control only is bunk this shoots good out to 50 yards with only an inch and a half difference it is more useful than just close range. I would sight it in at 25 yards and if you have a scope with target knobs used them or just use kentucky windage it is not that difficult to estimate an inch and a half at that distance.

[Forrest r]

Full of it, I doubt it!!! But I can honestly say that anyone who recommends ammo that has a muzzle velocity of 710fps in 22lr for doing head shots on squirrels & 50yds is. I would love to see these handpicked cherry groups that you’re calling “good enough” at 50yds for head shots on squirrels @50yds. Everyone else is getting around 1 ½” @50yds with this ammo just like the op, and that was from a bench in ideal conditions. His groups fell off @35yds just like the 100’s of other people that tested it.

For the record CCI also says this ammo is “PLINKING AMMO FOR YOUTHS”. Not my words, they are CCI’s & for some reason CCI was also dumb enough to list this ammo in there PEST CONTROL/SPECIALITY section of their ammo listings/offerings but is know where to be found in their small game or varmint ammo sections. But heck, what do they know? They only make/sell the stuff!!!

Jh45gun, I’m sure you would absolutely recommend this ammo be sighted in for a 25yd zero. That would be a poor a choice as using ammo was designed for “pest control/plinking” & one of the absolute worst choices anyone could make for trying to do head shots on squirrels @50yds with CCI quiets. With that setup the bullet would only be dropping a miniscule 3+” between 25yds & 50yds.

For some odd reason CCI lists all their rimfire ammo in 25yd increments. They also list their cb longs & shorts with a 50yd zero & how high they should be sighted in @25yds to hit the 50yd zero. When you get down to it the CCI short ammo will run circles around the CCI quiet. Let’s see
CCI quiet= 1.5 high @25yds/dead on @50yds with 40ft-lbs of energy @50yds
CCI shorts= .3” high @25yds/dead on @50yds with 55ft-lbs of energy @50yds.
I’d have to recommend the CCI shorts over the quiets for hunting/head shots on squirrel’s @50yds. The CCI shorts have 1.2” less drop (400% less drop) & hit 37%+ harder.

The reality about the CCI quiet ammo is that it was never intended for 50yd hunting ammo. The accuracy falls off of this ammo past 30yds. For some odd reason if you sight CCI’s quiets in for a 30yd zero the ammo will have a .3” +/- drop from 10yds to 30yds and a .4”=/- drop from 10yds to 35yds, it starts to fall off that quick after 30yds. And that’s what I’d recommend this ammo for, close range. It will shoot flat out to 30yds (as flat as a 22short will shoot out to 50yds). But it still lacks any real hitting power, a bullet from a 22 short @50yds has more energy that a bullet from a 22 quiet at the muzzle.

The other thing that no one has brought up in this thread is the quality of the CCI quiet ammo. A chronograph will tell you why this ammo’s groups open up rather quickly. Gee. I wonder how much effort & energy CCI puts into the quality of what they call “PLINKING AMMO”. And if you think that this ammo leaves the muzzle at the advertized 710fps, guess again. Very few 22lr rifles will ever do the advertized velocities with any ammo. Most of what I tested or others tests had this ammo in the 680 to 690 range depending on the firearm/bbl. Try plugging 690fps into a ballistics calculator & you’ll see that your getting into the 1.7” high range @25yds to have a 50yd zero and that’s not counting the 20+sd of this ammo. That’s why using such a slooooooow moving bullet & a longer distance is a losing proposition. The difference of 20fps with this ammo @50yds is .6” in drop ( ½ a squirrels head just because of the difference in speeds between the bullets of this ammo).

You want to use this ammo for squirrels & head shots @50yds, go ahead. But factory #’s on “TRAJECTORY” or statements like good enough are meaningless in the real world. The lowly 22short will easily out perform this ammo & is just as quiet.

[Jack Stanley]

Jerry , I'm glad your son is going to have many hunts and memories ahead of him with that rifle . Being a southpaw myself finding a rifle that I like has been only a "sometimes" thing . Years ago I bought a Kimber with the bolt on the proper side for guys like us . I don't know what they sell for now , but it was getting close to a grand twenty-five years ago :lol:

Now that you found the ammo it likes , remember to buy four or five cases of ammo . The lad .... and you are gonna want to have it around I bet .

Jack

[jh45gun]

Seldom would I ever shoot a squirrel at 50 yards 25 to 35 is more like it but the shooting I did at 50 showed promise and I have not been out since then to do any more shooting. I will let you know what it does on squirrels if I get a chance at any this fall. I do not think you give the round enough credit. I have shot CB caps both long and short and was not impressed with the accuracy. This stuff is way more accurate in the results I have had with both pistol and rifle. With the 40 grain bullet is a better pest round than any 20 to 29 grain bullet at lower speeds. When I first tried this round I did not even sight my gun in to it and was hitting cans with both pistol and rifle out to 20 yards with no sight change and it was right on. When I went out to the range I forgot it was 1.5 inches I thought it was 2.5 inches so that is what I sighted it in for. The groups tracked fine right up the line. When I shot at 50 yards the groups were high of course. I will re sight it in for 25 yards dead on since most of my shooting would probably be in that range but shooting at 50 for me did verify CCI claim of 1.5 inches at 50 yards was true to me.

[4060MAY]

link to a somewhat realistic test of most 22lr ammo

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/04/22-lr-ammunition-accuracy-55-types-tested/

[jh45gun]

that test really does not mean anything as every 22 may or may not like different ammo as they suggested. I do not see anything realistic about it either as most of us use stock 22 rifles some may use target rifles but seldom I think would any of us have barrel tuners on a 22. I gave up on that forum years ago it is a cesspool run by a rich American Hating Muslim.

[9.3X62AL]

Hmmm. I haven't test-fired any of the Quiets in my 22s yet. Too bloomin' hot here lately, and I have construction under way that largely keeps me off the range.

I was talking yesterday with my tire guy, and he said something that concurs with my own experience--that CCI rimfire ammo is generally pretty good stuff, whether Blazer, Mini-Mags, SGB, or Quiets. The last two of these I need some range time with, but the first two I like. I do want to test the Blazer through a couple of my balky feeders, I've overlooked doing so to date.

[uscra112]

Made time to weigh 300 rounds of the CCI Quiet today. FWIW the weight variance was not too bad for "plinking" ammunition. I set up "buckets" for the weights, at 49.6 grains, 49.8 grains, and 50.0 grains. This is about the limit of resolution of the digital scale I use. Distribution was as follows:

49.6 32 of 300
49.8 85 of 300
50.0 27 of 300

Six rounds were way light at about 49.0 grains. That's exactly 2% culls.

Leaving out the six outliers, the distribution looks nice and "normal", meaning that you can draw a pretty symmetrical bell curve around the data.

Again leaving out the outliers, the total variance is only +/- 0.2 grains, and the standard deviation is only 0.13. which is not quite as good as MiniMax that I've graded, but much better than the "bulk" ammunition I've evaluated. The kind of numbers an old statistical process control guy like me wants to see.

After culling the outliers, if this doesn't shoot well in your gun, I'd have a look at the gun.

BTW I just noticed that the three boxes I opened did NOT all come from the same lot. Dumb - but it speaks well of CCI that this variance is as good as it is over two different lots.

[jh45gun]

I like it. It is very accurate in my guns and no it is not a 100 yard 22 ammo but out to 50 yards it is more then satisfactory. Plus I like the low report.