38 Special military brass

[Char-Gar]

In the mid-60s, I was given several hundred 130 grain FMJ 38 Special rounds by an Air Force guy. I reloaded the cases for many years without a problem.

Off and on over the years, I have read in various publications how USGI 38 Special brass either was not suitable for reloading or required special dies. Such stuff always made me scratch my head and wonder if they knew something I didint know.

About 20 years ago, I was in a commercial bulk reloading plant in San Antonio, Texas and the owner had 5,000 USGI 38 Special cases (LC,FC and RA) that he said came in but made his automatic loading machines gag. So for $15.00, I took them off his hands.

I am still loading them 20 years later and have only lost one case due to spliting and that was with a low end 357 mag load. These cases are heavier/thicker than commercial brass for certain, so a fellow might want to dial the powder charge back a mite, but I seldom do. I use standard loading dies.

I am curious what other folks experience is like with USGI 38 Special brass.

[ReloaderFred]

Yes, military .38 brass is thicker than commercial .38 brass, which is one of the reasons I like it so much. I don't change my powder charge, but I'm not loading nuclear loads in it, either.

I'm still loading some WCC cases I got from Edwards AFB back in the early 1970's when we used to hold matches with the Security Police on the base. It's great brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Poygan]

My all time favorite is RA 64 brass. Seems to last forever. Believe they were originally loaded with 158 grain FMJs. Believe I also had some WCC 83s but they had tight primer pockets.

[fecmech]

I ran a small National Guard pistol team in the 70's and scrounged a couple thousand WCC74 cases and also a couple thousand Winchester match wadcutter cases. The wadcutter cases are now failing and at a greater rate than the Mil cases. I like them a lot and use them for all my "service" level loads with RN's and SWC's. The WCC cases were loaded with a 130 gr RN bullet that clocked 787 FPS out of my 6" gun and 677 FPS out of my S&W 36 1 7/8". I have always suspected that Winchester just shortened their .357 mag brass for the military .38's as their .357 mag brass is also heavier than other mfgrs.

[9.3X62AL]

Only a little experience with WCC brass, but it worked very well for me in an RCBS T/C die set, whether the Rockchucker or the Ponsness-Warren presses were used.

[higgins]

A loooong time ago, I had some FC headstamp military .38 spl. cases that had undersize primer pockets. I'm going on memory here, which is dangerous, but seems like years ago American Rifleman had a blurb in it somewhere that some military .38s were shorter than normal for some reason. I had some RA cases that had correct primer pockets that lasted for years, probably because they were overly thick. There have been just enough peculiarities with military .38 over the years that I can see why a commercial reloader may pick them out "just because".

[nicholst55]

I used to routinely load WCC .38 brass that was acquired from Uncle. Other than having to swage the primer pockets the first go-round, it's great brass. Wish I had a few hundred right now!

Now the loaded M41 Ball ammo that it originated in, on the other hand, is borderline garbage in my experience. I was never able to chrono any, but I'd just about guarantee that the ES and SD of that stuff is horrible! It was inaccurate and inconsistent in every gun I ever fired it in. I pity the aircrew, SF/SP/MP who had to bet their life on that ****!

[BLTsandwedge]

I load a LOT of .38s using H&G #50s. Seated to the crimp groove, the H&G #50 will bulge WWC military brass to the point the round won't chamber. That's obviously due to the thicker case walls. If I come across a bunch in the garage I'll post 'em on the pay-it-forward board.

[smkummer]

I bought some slighlty cooroded loaded military 38 special ammo at the Knob Creek machine gun shoot about 3 years ago very cheap and it fires at about a 99% rate. It has the 130 FMJ bullet seated very deep and is going out at about 930 FPS out of a 4 in. gun. It is mid-to late 80s dated. Most is WCC stamped but some is LC stamped. The LC has a primer crimp that has to be removed prior to loading but the WCC has a very slight crimp that does not have to be removed. On my Lee 1000, I have not noticed any difference upon loading. The bullet has a .355 diameter. It appears to be a 38 Super bullet.

[rintinglen]

I was annoyed at first when I got a few hundred mixed mil cases, since some had crimped in primers, but several loadings down the road, I have no complaints at all. I have only WCC cases, with varied head stamps, mostly 74, 77, and 83. They run about 4 grains heavier than the R-P or Starline brass.
When I was in the Marines, Legation Guards, some air crew, and some MP's carried 38's, the standard round was a 130 grain FMJ RN loaded light. I shot up a few in a Charter Arms Undercover, and was surprised at the reduction in recoil. They were none too accurate either.
But once you got the empty case, you had pretty good brass.

[429421Cowboy]

I have a bit of millitary .38 brass that i have been wondering about, never loaded it as most of it is LC with what looks like a good primer crimp i'd have to remove. I may have to try it sometime if i need .38 brass now, i'll have to bear in mind that it is thicker walled!

[Kraschenbirn]

Funny this thread should pop up today. Back in the mid-70s, I was given a 5 lb. coffee can of mixed milsurp .38 Spl brass by a soon-to-be-retired USAF armorer...he ran the small arms range on the base where I was working (as a civilian). Practicing this morning, I fired about hundred rounds loaded in that same brass and noticed, after umpteen+ passes through my Dillon, I'm starting to see some split cases.

Bill

[ReloaderFred]

Yep, any brass will split over time, and numerous loadings, but the military .38 brass outlasts just about any other brass for longevity. The primer crimps only have to be removed once, and then it's just load and fire, and repeat as necessary.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[schutzen]

Here is a strange note for you. Way back in the mid 1970's we were unloading and cleaning up conex's/milvan's returning from VN. One of our more curious finds was 500 rounds of military .38 Special with [U]no head stamp [U]. Was it a manufacturing error? Or was it sterile ammunition for????? I have no idea I was not there. Even worse after 3 moves and a house fire I cannot find the 50 rounds I saved.

Has anyone else ever seen cases with no head stamp?

[izzyjoe]

that is some very good brass, i bought some year's ago on GB for dad's S&W 10, i've loaded them about 8 or 9 times and they still look good. i wish i had more of that brass. i think they are wcc 95's.

[Firebricker]

I have some .38 mil brass will have to go check the head stamp. They loaded ok but the primer pockets seemed shallow. FB

[Bullet Caster]

Not to hijack the thread and change calibers, but I just acquired 1000 pieces of WCC headstamp 9mm brass for $25.00. They were all decapped--the only thing I had to do was check out the primer pockets and ream them slightly and clean in citric acid and ss pins in the rock tumbler.

This looks like good brass. I was always leary about WCC brass. Now my question is this. What does WCC stand for? I always thought it meant Winchester Cartridge Company. Anyone know??? Inquiring minds want to know. BC

[Mooseman]

WCC = Western Cartridge Company, a division of Winchester for many years .

[rromeo]

I bought a coffee can full of WCC brass not too long ago. It looks nice, so I hope it works well.
I'm loading 3 grs of Bullseye under 158 gr SWCs, so I don't think pressure will be an issue.

[skeettx]

The only 38 Special Military brass that I ever had a problem with was the Canadian military brass that had a primer crimp for their special purposes
T'was a pain to remove the crimp
Mike

[ReloaderFred]

The IVI brass does usually have a pretty heavy crimp, but I've found it to be pretty good quality, once the crimp is removed.

As for .38 brass without a headstamp, I have a few in my collection. I have no idea where they came from originally, as I picked them up at our range.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[XBT]

I bought a bunch of WCC 71 38 spl. many years ago, probably not long after they were manufactured and fired. They are very good brass. After many, many loadings I am now finding an occasional loose primer pocket, but I think they will outlast me!

[MGySgt]

I have been loading Mil Spec 38 brass since the 70's. the only issue I have had with it is that you can not use light 38 special loads. The brass will not expand and seal the chambers.

Also you need a good expander to take the inside of the case to just below your cast diameter - otherwise the harder brass will resize your boolit! Been there got that!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I had at one time access to a lot of this stuff and acquired a large amount of it. I did reload it and in some instances for competition work with a Smith M-52. But I found that because of the brass being sturdier...thicker, I had to size the bullets down to .356 instead of .357. If I did .357 I had bulges and on some occasions a problem with chambering. There was no problem with leading and the accuracy was good...as good as with commercial cases. The bullet being used is/was H&G #251. Most of the mil-spec brass was either RA or WRA and it has lasted a long time. No splits or age cracks. and the price was hard to beat. LLS

[Char-Gar]

I use an old .358 expanding plug in an old Lyman 310 die to expanded all of my 38 Special cases incluing the mil-spec ones. The only exception is when I load HBWCs, and then I use a special RCBS long .3585 expander.

I have the old Lyman expander in an adapter in my Redding turret press. Back in the day, Lyman made .358 expanders for the 38 Special and .357 expanders for the 357 Magnum. I would not want to be without them. Current expanders are all .356 which can play hob with softer cast bullets regardless of brass type.

I get no swaging down of cast bullets regardless of softness and no bulging. Accuracy is always very good.

Well, if you run that long RCBS expander into a case other than wadcutter brass, you will get a seriously bulged case toward the head. Not a good idea.

[Char-Gar]

I have been loading Mil Spec 38 brass since the 70's. the only issue I have had with it is that you can not use light 38 special loads. The brass will not expand and seal the chambers.

Also you need a good expander to take the inside of the case to just below your cast diameter - otherwise the harder brass will resize your boolit! Been there got that!

I load solid base wadcutters, 158 round nose, and 155 - 160 SWCs in mil-spec brass over 3.5/Bullseye and get good case expansion and seal. These would be "service" level loads.

I have recently loaded some 165 Keith SWCs over 12/2400 and got very good results with these cases.

I think the 38 Special is the nee plus ultra of sixgun rounds. It certainly is the "funnest" round for me. I am something of a 38 Special nut.

I also tend to accumulate old 38 Special loading tool. The most recent that showed up at my door asking for refuge is a Belding and Mull 46 Improved straight line tool for the 38 Special. I just have to let the poor things in, it would be heartless to do otherwise.