Finally getting my 357 blackhawk to shoot

[paul h]

It would take a rather extensive thread to go over the dimensional issues with my old model 4 5/8" blackhawk and the multiple fixes I employed in an attempt to aleviate them. It now has a minimal cylinder end shake and barrel gap, original barrel was replaced with a 6 1/2" and it wears a scope and hogue grip.

Long story short a gun that would be hard pressed to group under 4" at 25yd and which couldn't hit a paper plate at 50yds finally shot a couple of 1" 25 yd groups. I know, not phenominal, but given the 1000's of rounds I've put through it over the years in an attempt to figure out something that would group I've relieved to finally be getting closer.

The combo that has done the trick is a 359640 cast from coww air cooled w/ penta pins, lubed with BAC, size .358" set in an rp case with a fed small primer and 15.5 and 16.0 gr of H-110.

While I'd long though 2400 was the magic fuel for a 357, the groups were 2" and change at the same range. And I'm glad I wasn't shooting in the covered section of the range because those 2400 loads were a freakin concussion grenade. Even with plugs and muffs that sucker is loud :O

Now to do some more fine tuning, move the target to 50yds and work on shrinking groups.

The one thing that perplexes me is why my wadcutter loads will have 3-4 shots in one ragged hole, but 1 or 2 fliers. I'm thinking it might be me needing to get a handgun drum for my redding 3br to see if I'm having an issue with not being able to through consistant small charges of powder.

[tacklebury]

Congrats that's tough to keep going on. I gave up, returned mine to Ruger and they replaced the Barrel and both cylinders free, except the shipping and did a trigger job to boot. Mine's sensational now, but I was pulling my hair out for a while. 8(

[paul h]

I got rid of the gun once! Traded it to a buddy who traded it to another buddy. Then for some strange reason I missed it. Something about it feeling just right in the hand and that click, click, click every time you cock it. Well after it came home for the second time I thought perhaps there was some magic load I'd missed. Nope, still wouldn't shoot. Then I slugged the barrel, found the dreaded breach choke and decided to taylor throat it. It shot better, but still not good.

Now it's finally approaching good. The funny thing is with a rubber grip, longer barrel and a scope it doesn't have that same nice feel in the hand :( But, I can't abide a gun that I can't shoot accurately. Once I dial it in, then the scope will be yanked and I'll shoot it with irons.

[44man]

I have found fliers are caused by lead a little too soft. All of my revolvers will do it and fliers go away with just a small change in alloy.
It has been a very, very long time since I had the S&W 27 with an 8-3/8" ribbed barrel with the original Bushnell scope. Using the 358156 HP it would hit 1" targets at 100 yards from prone. I used 2400.
Since then I have worked with hundreds of .357's for friends and customers and none has ever done as well. My feelings are that it is not an easy caliber.
Moving to the .357 Max showed a revolver crazy accurate in the Ruger. I shot a brand new Ruger for IHMSA at Youngstown, no sight settings and shot a 39 out of 40.
I have worked with Freedoms, S&W's and Rugers over the years and none could match the old 27.
I do not own a .357 now, don't like it for hunting that much so it is hard to help. Yet I have seen it so deadly accurate it will blow your socks off.
Don't give up.

[looseprojectile]

Bought one new in Florida in 1957. $87.50, four and five eights barrel.

I shot it many thousands of rounds in the really hot load range. I wore it out. Bought another in the early sixties and continued with the full house loadings. I shot it nearly every day. That gun was very accurate and my constant companion. Sometime in the mid sixties I got interested in accurate rifles and got rid of the handguns.

Now, a few months ago, I got the chance to get another four and five eights inch flattop Ruger with the serial #3214 I jumped right on it. Traded a really beat up #1 Ruger 7 X 57 and got two hundred boot.
I can't seem to hit a barn from the inside. The chambers are quite small but all are exactly the same diameter. Most of my reloads that fit every other .357 dont chamber easily. All factory loads fit. Gonna have to review my methods. The throats are all over the place, no two the same and on the order of ,354" to .357".
Now I will check and slug the barrel also.

How can I have gotten a gun that is this mucked up? Up till now I thought they were all good. Ignorance is bliss?
The only answer is to have it re chambered, ya think? Maybe just have the throats done? Screw with it myself? I really love the feel of this old gun and was anticipating re-living my youth with it. No joy yet.
I have not previously heard of any of the early Rugers being this bad.


Life is good

[44man]

After slugging the bore I would lap the throats so they are all the same and .0005" over groove. Not hard to do but takes time.
See what it does then.
Ruger is guilty about dimensions being off, always has.

[Dorf]

Loose Projectile: Glad to hear that someone else has an OM Blkhk with "funkys" chambers. Mine is SN 43XX and was purchased in 1955. I have one chamber that is small and the other five ain't exceptionally large either. Any load over 13.4 gr of #2400 and a 150 gr 358477 bullet gives reall hard extraction. I can't load the 358429 (?) Keith bullets in Magnum cases and have them chamber. Those same loads slip right out of my 581 Smith and Taurus 305 with no problems at all. I sent the old Ruger back to the factory last year for a new cylinder and was told that they no longer had any on hand and didn't plan on getting any more. Looks like it may be time to talk to Hamilton Bowen about a change to .44 Spl. However it probably would be less expensive to go to Lipsey's and get one of those pretty new ones done up in stainless and fancy grips. YMMV :-D

[big dale]

On a few guns I have shot groups with each individual chamber to see if one generaly throws shots much farther off than the others. Sometimes I mark the one that is consistantly off and use that one empty under the hammer. Sounds like you might want to have the chambers throated. I have had that done to a couple of old models thru the years and it helped a lot and did not cost all that much.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[Dorf]

Big Dale: You're probably correct-- re: the throating issue. BTW did you do it yourself or send it "off"? Any info re the reamers or whatever is required, would be appreciated. Thx, Stan

[big dale]

Stan: This was back in the early 90's and I was living in Austin and I took it over to Ace Hindman in Kerville who I had shorten the barrel on my Super Blackhawk and do a trigger job on it. Sorry I could not be of more help.. He passed n a few years later. I don't even remember what he charged to do that work for me.

Have fun with this stuff.

[Dale53]

I have reamed an "even" seven cylinders for .45 Blackhawks to proper dimensions (.4525") with a reamer kit borrowed from a friend. It was a Manson Reamer kit complete with pilots. It does an excellent job and those revolvers now have "Religion"!!

If you only have the one cyllnder to do, consider sending it to "Cylindersmith.com" - he reportedly does an excellent job and the cost is quite reasonable. Further, you only have to ship the cylinder.

FWIW
Dale53

[Dorf]

Dale53: Thx for the info. However, Cylindersmith is only doing .45's these days (according to his website). Anyone willing to recommend another "smith"? Thx, Stan

[Dale53]

Dorf;
I'm really sorry to hear that. I guess, on reflection, it's understandable. .45's are, by far, the greatest offenders. I can't begin to count the number of .32's .38/.357's and .44's I have had pass through my hands and they were all fine right out of the box. On the other hand, I've only had one .45 Colt during that time that had the correct dimensions from the factory.

I always hate to hear of one less source for anything but what's a feller to do...

Dale53

[44man]

Veral Smith's book explains how to lap yourself. It really works. All it takes is a slotted rod and some fine emery cloth strips.
It is the same process used to lap lee size dies.
Slow work and constant fitting of a boolit until it is just right, then move to the next throat.

[tenx]

rugers can be a can of worms. people debate the six groove verses eight or five groove guns and a host of other things. a few things i've figured out is 1. pot luck alloy bullets equals pot luck groups. the groups my be good but almost never exceptional with potluck lead bullets 2. what works for one dosen't allways work for another, every gun is definately an individual. 3. clean up the tolerances whenever you can. replace the base pin with a belt mountian, i have replaced several cylinder bolts with a powers oversized bolt and retimed the gun. 4. look at the crown, really look at it with a mognifying glass, all blackhawks have to be cleaned from the muzzle, the crown is easy to damage 5. most every factory blackhawk trigger can use some help 6. the weaver no drill/tap base isn't allways rock solid, the weigand drill and tap mount is 7. some of the standard powders meter the worst, i/e unique. i have used and will continue to use unique but most charges vary out of the powder measure considerably (x2 rcbs uniflows and a dillon 450 measure) check and see for yourself. 2400, herco and some others are just about as bad 8. i'm a huge fan of elmer keith but there are a few bullet designs that prove better sometimes. don't get too hung up on a particular design. by the way, my 358429 173 grain elmer heavyweight shot ok in 38 special but it wasn't until i cranked them up in a 357 that they begin to really shine (around 1150-1200 fps) 9. check the rear sights in the blackhawks, some have a lot of side to side play. i'll stop short of saying sloppy but they definately won't bind from being too tight 10. keep the cylinders clean, after shooting 38 specials in the blackhawk cylinder and lead bullets and their residue/lube builds up and it really makes chambering 357's difficult and binds/crimps the round. not sure how bad but i don't thing it helps with anything. the easiest way to clean the gunk ring from the chamber is to use a 556 m16 chamber brush in a cordless drill, stop short of letting the large bristles for the locking lug recess touch the cylinder. it's really snug and the copper/bronze bristles are very stiff and make short work cleaning the chambers. 11. bullet lube. i like the harder lube (i use a star with a c-h heat plate with an a temp adjustment) because in the summer the lube stays put but sometimes changing to a softer tackier lube really turns a load and group size around. hope some of this helps, i'm not trying to upset anybody but these are a few things that i've found that have helped me.