KirkD
08-21-2012, 10:16 PM
Rifle: An original Winchester Model 1873 44 W.C.F. (44-40) shipped in 1889. Here's a photo ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/Kirks-73.jpg
Lads, I got to wondering what this old rifle would do if I could sharpen up the sight picture from the usual blur that has become the state of affairs with these 58 year-old eyes. Figuring a tang sight would help, I was able to obtain an original early Lyman #1 which was available at the time this old '73 was shipped. Here's a photo of the tang sight ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/73-tang-sight.jpg
Today, I got to try it out and learned a few lessons about using this old sight in the process, which I'll discuss as I learned them.
I started off at 100 yards because I didn't know how bang on I had the windage. I fiddled around with the vertical until it was reasonably close, not paying attention whether I last was screwing the sight up or down. I slowly took five shots and strolled on down to take a look. The five shots formed a 2 & 7/8" group (100 yards). Not bad, but I had expected better. I think there were a couple of factors involved in this large group, but I didn't clue in yet. Here's a photo of this target (Target A) ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-A.jpg
Well, that group, large as it was, looked good enough to try the rifle out at 200 yards so I took the walk down to the 200 yard backers and tacked up my usual target. That 8 & 1/2 x 11 piece of paper looks pretty small at 200 yards, and the black spot was really small. I took a couple of sighter shots to figure out how high to screw up the tang sight, then I took three slow shots and walked on down to see what was happening. I do recall that for this group, I had last raised the sight, rather than lower it. Glory be!!! Shiver me timbers! Those three shots went into a 1 & 1/4" group! I ain't never shot a group that small at 200 yards in all my born days. I headed back to the bench to take two more shots, confident that I was probably going to mess up that nice group (I wanted a five-shot group). I took those two shots and then made that 200 yard walk back to see what had happened. Good thing no one else was there. Four shots had gone into 1 & 13/16" but the fifth shot was a major dropper some 6 & 1/2" below but still giving a total horizontal spread of about 1 & 3/4". There seems to be a law of the universe that a fantastic group will always have a dropper or a flyer. It reminds me of the Apostle Paul's thorn in the flesh that was given him to keep him humble. I think the problem is my crimp. This batch was crimped on the forward driving band rather than the crimping groove. I am using different kinds of brass. Most cartridges were quite snug on chambering because I'm sizing my bullets to .431 since my groove diameter is .431 and .431" is the largest bullet I can chamber. However, I noticed that there was varying degrees of snugness, but the occasional cartridge was quite tight and one was finger loose. This could affect the pressure and, hence, the vertical drop at 200 yards. I'm going to try crimping in the crimping groove for the next batch to get a more uniform crimping pressure when the cartridge is chambered. Here's the target (Target #1) ..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-1-1.jpg
I pinned up another target at 200 yards and took five slow shots, but I knew I was sloppy. I had also very slightly lowered the tang sight by a hair. The group was awful, with three shots giving me about a 4" group and two slightly off the paper. I decided to be a bit more careful on the next group and pinned up a new target. This one was no great shakes either, with four shots giving me a 4 & 1/2" group, but the fifth was a flyer into the top left hand corner of the paper. What was going on? Here is a photo of this third target (Target 3) ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-3.jpg
I went back to shoot a 100 yard target instead. I was thinking about my groups and decided that it might be making a difference depending upon whether I was screwing the tang sight up, or down. The really nice 200 yard group was obtained after raising the tang sight. The awful 200 yard group was obtained after lowering it a hair. I decided to always shoot only after screwing the sight up rather than down. Part way through the five shots I accidentally hit the tang sight with my thumb and a little bell went off. I realized that I had unconsciously hit that tang a few times during my shooting. This old tang sight has some very slight wobble to it and a whack with the thumb might move it slightly in windage. I checked my target and found it to be decent in vertical spread (remember I had decided to only shoot after raising the sight, rather than lowering it) but it had a bit of a spread in windage, giving me a five shot group of 2 & 11/16 at 100 yards. This isn't the worst group I've ever seen at 100 yards, but I still wondered about that whack with the thumb. Here is a photo of this 100 yard group (Target B) ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-B.jpg
I only had three rounds left, so I figured I'd try them at 100 yards again, but a) it would be with the upward pressure of the screw (as I had already figured out) and b) I would be careful not to whack the tang sight with my thumb when cranking in another round. I squeezed off the three shots and went down to look. The three shots gave a 1 & 3/8" group at 100 yards. I might be on to something here. Here's a photo of the target (Target C) ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-C.jpg
Summary of what I learned:
1. Modern reproductions are probably machined to higher tolerances and won't have the very slight vertical slop that this old original has when cranked up, but this sight seems to work best when I raise the sight rather than lower it when I set it at a particular range.
2. I'll try not to whack the tang sight with my thumb when cranking in another round. This is probably fine with a modern reproduction machined to higher tolerances, but not with my old original tang sight which has a very slight windage wobble when wiggled with the fingers.
3. I found I could shoot better if I brought my eye closer to the tang sight. I have been leaning my head back to get as far away as possible from the sights so that my old eyes had a better chance of focusing on the sights. With a tang sight, I don't have to do this.
4. Work on my crimping so that each cartridge chambers with the same amount of resistance.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/Kirks-73.jpg
Lads, I got to wondering what this old rifle would do if I could sharpen up the sight picture from the usual blur that has become the state of affairs with these 58 year-old eyes. Figuring a tang sight would help, I was able to obtain an original early Lyman #1 which was available at the time this old '73 was shipped. Here's a photo of the tang sight ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/73-tang-sight.jpg
Today, I got to try it out and learned a few lessons about using this old sight in the process, which I'll discuss as I learned them.
I started off at 100 yards because I didn't know how bang on I had the windage. I fiddled around with the vertical until it was reasonably close, not paying attention whether I last was screwing the sight up or down. I slowly took five shots and strolled on down to take a look. The five shots formed a 2 & 7/8" group (100 yards). Not bad, but I had expected better. I think there were a couple of factors involved in this large group, but I didn't clue in yet. Here's a photo of this target (Target A) ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-A.jpg
Well, that group, large as it was, looked good enough to try the rifle out at 200 yards so I took the walk down to the 200 yard backers and tacked up my usual target. That 8 & 1/2 x 11 piece of paper looks pretty small at 200 yards, and the black spot was really small. I took a couple of sighter shots to figure out how high to screw up the tang sight, then I took three slow shots and walked on down to see what was happening. I do recall that for this group, I had last raised the sight, rather than lower it. Glory be!!! Shiver me timbers! Those three shots went into a 1 & 1/4" group! I ain't never shot a group that small at 200 yards in all my born days. I headed back to the bench to take two more shots, confident that I was probably going to mess up that nice group (I wanted a five-shot group). I took those two shots and then made that 200 yard walk back to see what had happened. Good thing no one else was there. Four shots had gone into 1 & 13/16" but the fifth shot was a major dropper some 6 & 1/2" below but still giving a total horizontal spread of about 1 & 3/4". There seems to be a law of the universe that a fantastic group will always have a dropper or a flyer. It reminds me of the Apostle Paul's thorn in the flesh that was given him to keep him humble. I think the problem is my crimp. This batch was crimped on the forward driving band rather than the crimping groove. I am using different kinds of brass. Most cartridges were quite snug on chambering because I'm sizing my bullets to .431 since my groove diameter is .431 and .431" is the largest bullet I can chamber. However, I noticed that there was varying degrees of snugness, but the occasional cartridge was quite tight and one was finger loose. This could affect the pressure and, hence, the vertical drop at 200 yards. I'm going to try crimping in the crimping groove for the next batch to get a more uniform crimping pressure when the cartridge is chambered. Here's the target (Target #1) ..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-1-1.jpg
I pinned up another target at 200 yards and took five slow shots, but I knew I was sloppy. I had also very slightly lowered the tang sight by a hair. The group was awful, with three shots giving me about a 4" group and two slightly off the paper. I decided to be a bit more careful on the next group and pinned up a new target. This one was no great shakes either, with four shots giving me a 4 & 1/2" group, but the fifth was a flyer into the top left hand corner of the paper. What was going on? Here is a photo of this third target (Target 3) ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-3.jpg
I went back to shoot a 100 yard target instead. I was thinking about my groups and decided that it might be making a difference depending upon whether I was screwing the tang sight up, or down. The really nice 200 yard group was obtained after raising the tang sight. The awful 200 yard group was obtained after lowering it a hair. I decided to always shoot only after screwing the sight up rather than down. Part way through the five shots I accidentally hit the tang sight with my thumb and a little bell went off. I realized that I had unconsciously hit that tang a few times during my shooting. This old tang sight has some very slight wobble to it and a whack with the thumb might move it slightly in windage. I checked my target and found it to be decent in vertical spread (remember I had decided to only shoot after raising the sight, rather than lowering it) but it had a bit of a spread in windage, giving me a five shot group of 2 & 11/16 at 100 yards. This isn't the worst group I've ever seen at 100 yards, but I still wondered about that whack with the thumb. Here is a photo of this 100 yard group (Target B) ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-B.jpg
I only had three rounds left, so I figured I'd try them at 100 yards again, but a) it would be with the upward pressure of the screw (as I had already figured out) and b) I would be careful not to whack the tang sight with my thumb when cranking in another round. I squeezed off the three shots and went down to look. The three shots gave a 1 & 3/8" group at 100 yards. I might be on to something here. Here's a photo of the target (Target C) ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/Target-C.jpg
Summary of what I learned:
1. Modern reproductions are probably machined to higher tolerances and won't have the very slight vertical slop that this old original has when cranked up, but this sight seems to work best when I raise the sight rather than lower it when I set it at a particular range.
2. I'll try not to whack the tang sight with my thumb when cranking in another round. This is probably fine with a modern reproduction machined to higher tolerances, but not with my old original tang sight which has a very slight windage wobble when wiggled with the fingers.
3. I found I could shoot better if I brought my eye closer to the tang sight. I have been leaning my head back to get as far away as possible from the sights so that my old eyes had a better chance of focusing on the sights. With a tang sight, I don't have to do this.
4. Work on my crimping so that each cartridge chambers with the same amount of resistance.