38 special help please

[lastborn]

I am trying to load some 38 special loads with The Lyman 358495 buttonhead SWC.
LEE 4-die set and M-die
Boolits sized to .360
Here is my problem: After I flare the case with the M-die, the case mouth will enter the seater die body, but, it scrubs and starts to close the flare and shaves lead before the boolit is seated to the crimp groove. I screwed the seater plug all the way in and turned the die in the press to seat the boolit. { in other words, I used the die like a seater plug and still have the problem} I only flare it big enough to get the boolit started. Is my problem with the ID of my seater die being too small? Do other dies have larger ID's?
Any and all advice/recommendations will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Char-Gar]

This is a simple issue. You bullets are too large. The nominal sizing size for the 38 Special is .358 with .357 also doing just fine.

The second step on a Lyman M-die is .360, so what happens to your .360 bullets can be expected.

Size you bullets .358 and the issue will go away. If for some reason you continue to think that .360 is what your bullet must be, then get an RCBS or other make of die that just flairs the mouth and does not create that second step.

I can think of no reason why a 38 Special handgun would require a 360 bullet, a 38 S&W yes, but not a 38 Special.

[Ola]

Char-Gar is right. But in my experience .357 is little bit too thin, .358 is usually better. Are you shooting them with S&W, Ruger, Taurus, FA...?

I had the same problem in 9x19 mm with the Lee 124 gr TL. My mold drops them .359-.361. That caused the same issues. Calibrated to .357 it works like a charm and is VERY accurate (better than any commercial jacketed bullet I've tried.

[rockrat]

Yes, your die is a bit too small on the inside diameter. I have had the same thing happen with some dies, and I size my boolits .360" also, for use in my rifles. Sometimes it is a fine line on the flare, when you put just enough flare to be able to seat the boolit properly, and too much, to where the die will try and iron out the crimp and causes problems. Dies are made for jacketed bullets, to help align the bullet and when you use a larger diameter slug, it causes problems.

I had to buy another set of dies to cure the problem. If there is a gun show near you sometime, take a flared case with you, and see if you can try it in a seating die, to check if you have enough clearance. If you are lucky, someone might have a table with single odd dies and have a 38 seating die that would work

Your best bet might be the RCBS Cowboy dies, as I suspect they are designed for cast boolits.

hope this helps

[lastborn]

Ruger Blackhawk 6.5"
I will try a .358 die. Thanks to all that responded.

[Wally]

I am trying to load some 38 special loads with The Lyman 358495 buttonhead SWC.
LEE 4-die set and M-die
Boolits sized to .360
Here is my problem: After I flare the case with the M-die, the case mouth will enter the seater die body, but, it scrubs and starts to close the flare and shaves lead before the boolit is seated to the crimp groove. I screwed the seater plug all the way in and turned the die in the press to seat the boolit. { in other words, I used the die like a seater plug and still have the problem} I only flare it big enough to get the boolit started. Is my problem with the ID of my seater die being too small? Do other dies have larger ID's?
Any and all advice/recommendations will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

You can seat them with a larger caliber die---such as a .40 S & W or a .41 Mag then use the Lee crimp die to crimp the bullet. I had this problem with a Lyman seater/crimp die. I polished it bigger with fine sandpaper, on a dowel..but it is tricky, as you can mess up the roll crimper on it... I can tell you how to avoid doing so. IMHO you are better off using a larger caliber seating die.

[Char-Gar]

[QUOTE=Ola;1818927]Char-Gar is right. But in my experience .357 is little bit too thin, .358 is usually better. Are you shooting them with S&W, Ruger, Taurus, FA...?

My experience is confined to Smith and Wesson, Colt and Ruger.

Smith and Wesson cylinder throats run .357 - 3575 in general and .357 bullets work just fine as will .358.

Colt throats will most often run .359 and .358 does just fine as will .359 unless you run into die issues.

Ruger throats run .358 and .358 or .357 both work well.

When you stir it all up, .358 will work 99.99 percent of the time in these three makes of sixgus.

I have never owned a Freedom Arms, Taurus, Rossi or any other make of 38/357 so I will not offer any comments on those.

[Char-Gar]

The issue of expander plugs in 38 Special dies is an interesting one. Today's dies are indeed made for jacketed bullets and the expander plugs run .356 to take a .357 jacketed bullet. When you move to cast bullets the 38 Special world get more complicated.

1. If you shoot what is called "hard cast" of about 15 Bhn and harder, the factory .356 expander will work just fine and is even to be prefered.

2. Move down to an alloy of 10-11 Bhn like ACWW and you are running the risk of deforming the bullet in a case expanded .356. You want something one the order of .357 or .358. Cheapest way to do this is to pick up an old Lyman 310 expanding die. These can be had in either .357 or .358. If you are going to use them on a standard press, you will also have to come up with an adapter.

3. Go to a soft swaged bullet and .358 expander is what you want.

4. The soft waged hollow based full wadcutter is yet another critter. It is long for the weight and will contact in most cases the unexpanded part of the case, and be compressed by that effort.

At one time RCBS made a special long .3585 expander for use in the wadcutter cases with this bullet. Sad to say, but RCBS no longer offers this expander. I have mine, but others will need to come up with their own, or have it custom made. Run one of the into a standard 38 Special case, and it will bulge out and may give chambering problem in some sixguns.

Conclusion: I hold the opinion that the 38 Special round is the finest centerfire round for the target shooter, plinker, small game hunter, hiker, camper and will do just fine for home defense. 99.5% of what we want a sixgun to do, can be done very well with the 38 Special. It is just that versatile. However, it's versatility sometimes requires some special considerations about the tooling used to load for it. Cast bullet design and alloy must also be varied with their intended use for best results.

I am a gen-u-wine 38 Special nut!

PS: I see lots of folks recommending RCBS Cowboy dies for this round and cast bullets. Does anybody know the size of the expander in one of those? I don't have any, nor have ever seen any of those dies.

[PbHurler]

Timely question, hopefully my epiphany may help
The last two days I loaded 200 .357 mags. I used NOE’s 358477 150 Gr SWC sized at .358”, Winchester brass. These rounds are for a S&W 4” 686. I primarily use Redding dies, and seat with the micrometer seating die.

I had flared the cases to allow the boolits to sit comfortably in the case (Redding Expander die), and when I ran the round into the Redding Micrometer seating die, I also was “scraping” the die with the case but I was also getting bad lead shaving of the boolit the same as you did.
I tried in the “regular” Redding seater……lead shaving.
I tried to seat in a Hornady New Dimension seater die with micrometer stem….lead shaving.
Tried in a RCBS Cowboy seater ……lead shaving.
WTH?
The scraping of the dies told me I couldn’t flair them anymore. I looked at the case mouths closely and they looked like I hadn’t chamfered them internally or externally. I chamfered a few, recharged them, and the lead shaving went away. I processed the other 175 cases and no more shaving issues. I still had a little “scraping” on the Redding micro-seater, but this was probably due to the excessive flair I initially was using to prevent the lead shaving!

I normally chamfer inside & outside of all of my new brass prior to expanding, but it appeares I somehow I missed these 200!

Anyway, you didn’t state whether or not you are using “processed” cases, new cases etc… but you might check for adequate chamfering of your brass.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I can`t even begin to think of how many thousands of that Lyman WC bullet I`ve made over the years. I usually used either 50/50 alloy or just straight WW. I sized them .358" and loaded them in .38 Spcl. cases on a set of Hornady dies that came with my Pro - 7 press. Never seemed to have any shave problems. My powder was Win. 231 or HP-38, a 3.5 gr. load did me just fine for indoor PPC shooting or just plinking outdoors.Robert

[w30wcf]

lastborn,
Great advise from the cb afficianados. If you still want to try the .360" diameter bullet with the seating die you have, place 1 bullet up into the die to be used as an extention of the seating stem, then adjust the die accordingly.

Have fun.

w30wcf