Hard Boolits

[newton]

I have searched for it, but cannot find specifics. What does a "too hard" boolit do wrong when used for hunting? Or is a boolit only too hard if it is not pushed very fast?

The reason I ask is I have always cast my rifle boolits pretty hard, at least as far as I can tell. They are COWW that are WD. I also add a few lino "letters" to the mix in hopes that they fill out good. The boolits shoot great, and I am thinking they are moving at around 2000 or more.

I went pig hunting with them yesterday and ended up shooting one of them there armored dilos. He was facing straight away from me. The boolit went in right above his tail and traveled the length of him exiting his head. I know it's graphic, but what I am getting at is that the boolit looked as though it had good enough expansion and it did not "explode" either. The critter was by no means a baby either. It was a bigin.

According to what I read this boolit seems to be harder than what people usually use. So I am just wondering what the specifics of too hard a boolit is for hunting and why. Thanks.

[runfiverun]

most likely had little expansion.

[newton]

most likely had little expansion.

Lol. This is exactly what I was talking about. I get that it "probably" did not expand much, but is that the only reason not to hunt with it? And if that is the only reason, why does it matter that much?

I just am trying to understand the theory behind the hard boolit is bad theology.

I remember one of my first deer shot with my 30-30 and some Winchester 150 grain rn, factory ammo. Shot the deer straight through the heart. He died within 20 yards. But I remember very distinctly noticing that there was a small entrance hole and just a tad bit bigger exit. But it was not much bigger and that's what stuck with me.

So I'm just trying to figure out the drawbacks, or at least the theory behind the soft nose idea for out beloved cast boolits. It seemed to me that the boolit did a tremendous job on the armadillo. I just cannot see how it would not do the same on a deer. But I would think that if it was not advised for some reason other than theory, someone might have a story to tell.

[kbstenberg]

Just 2 cents from the peanut gallery.
To my small mind. the less a bullet expands the less of its energy is left in the animal.
I test all my hunting bullets by shooting them into wet newsprint.

[runfiverun]

a bhn from about 10-16 will work for hunting with a flat nose.
too much harder [unless it's a maniplated alloy] can allow the boolit to break apart on bones and such.
the more malleable an alloy is, the more shear it can withstand without breaking apart.
funny however is that the softer alloy is more susceptable to smear.
velocity play's a role here also.
too fast and things just don't work right or cause too much damage.
too slow and you lose penetration or expansion.

[quilbilly]

Just 2 cents from the peanut gallery.
To my small mind. the less a bullet expands the less of its energy is left in the animal.
I test all my hunting bullets by shooting them into wet newsprint.

My thoughts exactly. I like as much energy as possible to be deposited on animal while getting enough penetration to just reach the other side. That means I don't have far to look for them. In any case there are no degrees of dead and if it works for you....

[Wayne Smith]

Depends on the animal and how you shoot him. You probably had the ideal boolit for that situation. How effective would it have been on a lung shot on a deer?

[newton]

Thanks for the thought guys. If that was a straight double lung shot, which is usuall what I end up with, then I do wonder what would happen. This I am pretty sure about, and that is the boolit would have made two holes. I say that because last year I had not got into casting but did load some hp's into some 30-30 cases and shot a deer with it.

There was one hole, and one drop of blood. And that drop of blood I saw only when I went up to him and started looking for where I hit him. He did not go too far, but far enough that it took me a while to find him, but that was mainly because I thought he ran in the opposit direction he actually did. The bullet left ALL it's energy in him, which in the end attributed to his quick demise.

But in all reality, I would have rather had a blood trail to follow. In the end, dead is dead I guess. I just want to make sure I am not taking some undue risks with using this load. I think the wide metaplate will be the thing that does the damage. I guess even still it's all just a guess until I actually shoot something with the load.

I like the idea of as much energy being left in the animal as possible, but energy is energy. And just because a bullet enters and then leaves an animal does not mean that it did not "give" as much energy as one that stays inside or just barely exits.

All thoughts I ponder, but I am not saying I know them for truth. That's why I would love to hear a story of someone who has first hand experience with a "too hard" boolit while hunting.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Newton,

Just my opinion, and you will see lots of them, but if your boolit is not so hard it shatters at the hint of a bone, it is not too hard.

More important is the boolit design, a boolit with a Wide Flat Nose (WFN) being a very good choice.

Provided you are using a cartridge of a larger enough dia, for example 40 or 45 caliber, there is very little to no need for any expansion. The boolit with the WFN is already expanded when it leaves the muzzle.

I am of the school, that I have no negative issues when my boolit gives through and through results.

It is fine and fun to retreave the boolit, but it isn't needed and seldom happens with projectals this heavy.

Found one last year in a very large cow elk, but it went a long ways and did a huge amount of work getting there. This years elk was in one side and out the other and it is just as dead!

Nothing will live long with that kind of damage to it's internals.

During the processing of my game animals, it is clearly evident that the 465gr WFN I am sending out the barrel at 1600 - 1700fps is doing an awesome amount of tissue damage and there simply is NO need for anything greater, even in the elk I have taken.

So, back to your hardness question, no need to add tin etc. and WW or an alloy or 50/50 WW/lead, quenched as it drops from the mold is plenty hard.

To make my point, before I began hunting with cast boolits, I read time and time again about eating right up to the boolit hole with cast boolits. But truely I had no idea the boolit hole would be so big, and all this from a non-expanding boolit.

CDOC

[newton]

I have heard that expression also, eating up to the hole. In fact, I have heard of a guy eating up to the boolit because he never could find it till it was on his plate. I am shooting a .30 cal. 30-06. The boolit does have the WFN. So I am really thinking its ok. I do not harden my boolits intentionally, I just like water dropping is all. I do not have a hardness tester, so maybe they are not as hard as I'm thinking.

Maybey I can scrounge up a bone somewhere and do some testing with newsprint or something.

[milkman]

Newton
I am wondering how much of the hard boolit theory is myth. I have shot heat treated boolits into oak and they were hard enough they didn't deform. It looked like they could have been loaded and shot again and they didn't shatter or break apart. Bone can't be a lot harder than seasoned oak.
I have killed several deer with cast boolits, but I have been using 70% meplat soft nose or 3:1 alloy of pure and WW water dropped and have never been able to recover a boolit. Both have left massive tissue damage on soft internal organs even when there did not appear to be a lot of boolit expansion from the exit holes.
This year, after getting a supply of tin from a member here I plan to hunt with a version of #2 alloy water dropped, depending on the meplat to work its magic. These are what I consider pretty hard, so we will see what happens.

[hornsurgeon]

best quick way to see if a bullet will break apart is to stand it up on a vice and smash it with a heavy hammer as hard as you can. a sledge hammer works well for this. if it shatters it would be too hard (brittle) to hunt with. if it flattens it should be fine.

it's kind of like the old argument over the ballistic tip bullets. behind the shoulder they work fine, spectacular even. but put them into the shoulder blade and you may have very different results.