weighing round balls

[HARRYMPOPE]

I decided to see if it really mattered.

Target on right balls weighed within .5g or better


Target on left balls drilled in one or two spots to remove 2g-6g.(group was smaller)

Groups at 50 yards with a 1-32 twist 50 caliber Lyman and 70g G-O.Groups are not the best the rifle has produced but a fair average.

If weighing balls makes you feel good do it.For average factory guns not capable of 1/2 MOA accuracy its seems to be a waste of time to try yo get them within a grain. I now will drill a couple straight though to see what happens.

George

[mooman76]

Drilling the balls also change them other than just weight though. I agree though it really doesn't make that much difference unless you want bench accuracy.

[Tatume]

Comparison of individual 5-shot groups doesn't mean much anyway. My experience is that comparison of five 5-shot groups to a similar number with a different load will tell a difference, if one exists. However, I've also found that comparison of two 20-shot groups is sufficient to detect a difference, provided no shots are eliminated as so-called "fliers." Using 20-shot groups is the more economical comparison.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Comparison of individual 5-shot groups doesn't mean much anyway. My experience is that comparison of five 5-shot groups to a similar number with a different load will tell a difference, if one exists. However, I've also found that comparison of two 20-shot groups is sufficient to detect a difference, provided no shots are eliminated as so-called "fliers." Using 20-shot groups is the more economical comparison.


I agree it isn't much of a long term average test.But it wasn't meant to be.I will sure shoot it again and the weighed balls may in fact shoot a smaller average groups.if there was a difference is ball weight/damage drastically changing group size i dont believe all 5 could have miraculously had a smaller group.The fact is just because a bullet is not the same weight dont assume it will be all over the place.This short RB test is backed by my long held experiencing that weight in cast bullets hasn't as much effect on group sizes as often stated.I have saved very bad bullets and shot them into good groups often having them not out as far as one would think.Many times right into the group.

[waksupi]

Thanks for showing your tests. For myself, I have had around an inch different in groups at fifty yards, with weighed and un-weighed round balls.
My question is, what is the explanation of the larger group with un-drilled balls?

[gnoahhh]

Interesting.

Curiously, I've never weight tested RB's, but have done with CB's (which testing was inconclusive as to the merits thereof so I stopped doing it generally).

I'll be interested to find out if those drilled through ones whistle as they fly through the air!

[HARRYMPOPE]

Thanks for showing your tests. For myself, I have had around an inch different in groups at fifty yards, with weighed and un-weighed round balls.
My question is, what is the explanation of the larger group with un-drilled balls?

That is a mystery.it was the first group of the day so maybe my eyes were warming up.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Interesting.

Curiously, I've never weight tested RB's, but have done with CB's (which testing was inconclusive as to the merits thereof so I stopped doing it generally).

I agree.When i go to a big 2 day match i will sometimes start to do it.Then about 1/2 way though i give up as its too much hassle.if you find alot of gross weight variation in you bullets your casting system is not up to snuff i believe.Instead of weight sorting try to do something different while casting to get a larger portion of good bullets.

George

[Boerrancher]

I gave up on weighing my round balls a good while back. I am not saying that it doesn't make a difference, but my guns and my shooting ability is not good enough to tell the difference. I have gotten to where I closely inspect each ball after casting, looking for any wrinkles or other imperfections. I pay close attention to the sprue cut. If there is even the slightest hint of a pin hole indicating that there was an air pocket in the ball, It goes back in the pot. The balls also get a second inspection when I take them out of their storage container and put them in the drawstring bag I use to keep them together in my hunting bag.

Best wishes,

Joe

[waksupi]

The only time I do it is when I am working up a load in a new rifle. I want to see what is the potentially best load for a rifle. After I find that, the ball weight just kinda has to take care of itself, although I also remelt any with obvious flaws. We have observed on the range what we assume has to be an off balance ball, as at times when the light is right we can see balls take a decided curve in their flight. This usually happens once the ball has passed fifty yards, probably out at around 75+ yards.

[Shooter]

I once read that ball bearings were sorted by rolling them down a trough and letting them bounce through a hole. The theory being, if they were different weights, the bounce would differ, and they would miss the hole.

I wonder if this would work on lead RB .

[plainsman456]

All i could think of was not printable on the forum.
Thanks for the chuckle.

Now,all of my balls that have wrinkles go into a can for later,the ones that pass muster get lit up by 90 grains of powder.

[frnkeore]

I stopped weighing RB in my first few months of shooting them back in '82. RB are VERY easy to cast and once the mold is up to temp, it's hard to very the weight as long as you keep a steady cadence going. About all I did was inspect the sprue for pin holes and remelt thoughs.

One thing that I tried was to swage the sprue back into the ball so I didn't have to be so careful lining it up with the center of the bore. That sometimes seemed to help (on paper) and sometimes I couldn't tell the difference. It was more work so, it was mostly done for paper shoots and not always for trail walks.

Frank

[4060MAY]

don't forget to weigh your patches :smile:

[waksupi]

don't forget to weigh your patches :smile:

The orientation of the stripes makes a difference, too, If not lined up perpendicular, they will shoot to the left or right. :roll::drinks:

[mooman76]

I find that the red striped ones work best for me.

[HARRYMPOPE]

i dye my patches purple and shoot better groups.Well........ i have never tested them against not dyed ones but i shot very good groups with them so it must be the reason.

George

[JeffinNZ]

Hey, tain't nuthin wrong with purple!

[Maven]

"I find that the red striped ones work best for me." ... Mooman

That may be truer than we think as I've found the different colored pillow tick bolts at Joann Fabric vary by thickness/compressability. E.g., the red-, light green-, and brown striped material is thinner than the blue striped ticking. While those work well in my trade gun, my rifles prefer something thicker. The blue striped stuff for outdoor use is thicker still, and considerably more expensive. Dunno about the purple stuff, though, Jeff.

[mooman76]

"I find that the red striped ones work best for me." ... Mooman

That may be truer than we think as I've found the different colored pillow tick bolts at Joann Fabric vary by thickness/compressability. E.g., the red-, light green-, and brown striped material is thinner than the blue striped ticking. While those work well in my trade gun, my rifles prefer something thicker. The blue striped stuff for outdoor use is thicker still, and considerably more expensive. Dunno about the purple stuff, though, Jeff.

I knew that when I stated that but really I was just going along with the joke. I usually don't even use actual pillow ticking. I mostly use old cotton dress shirts and such and they seem to work just as well for me and don't cost me anything to rade the closet for old shirts I don't wear any more. Old military BDUs work very well too for a good tight and strong patch.

[frnkeore]

When I first started shooting ML's, I used Levi blue jean matrial from worn out pants. I cut pieces from between the worn areas and it did very well with a .490 ball in a TC, I won my first match that way out of 20 shooters. I later went to pillow ticking with a deep narrow groove (H&H bbl under hammer) and a .498 ball. But, I'l never forget how well the levi's did in that TC.

Frank

[HARRYMPOPE]

My TC .54 shoot very well with denim from my kids jeans as well with a .530 ball.

george

[Maven]

Denim is an excellent choice, but this 25 yd.offhand group used .017" patches (white, not purple). Denim would do as well, but I wanted a break from pounding on the short starter with a mallet.

[mooman76]

I'm like Mavin. I'd have to use a mallet on all my guns to use denim. One thing I found works probably as well is military BDU material. Very strong and dense like denim but not quite as thick.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Re-shot it again today at 50 yards.This time i shot two 5 shot groups of weighed bullets and drilled balls.Both times the groups were exactly the same size.Weight variation was from 170g to 178g.Sometimes single drilled and other times two holes.



George

[357maximum]

One thing I found works probably as well is military BDU material. Very strong and dense like denim but not quite as thick.


I too like old bdu's for RB patching. I bought a large box of old type cotton in size FRIGGIN HUGE BDU tops awhile back just for that purpose. I tried one of my old torn BDU tops several years earlier and it worked great so when I found a box of them for a buck at a yard sale I had to buy a lifetime supply.

A few weeks later at one of the properties I was tending to I found that all the curtains in the house were handmade of red striped pillow ticking. The client that owned that property requires all curtains/curtain rods and brackets be removed to get the house in conveyance condition........:p I will not live long enough to use all the patching material I have stowed away in rubbermaid tubs from just them two finds. Life is good:smile:

One thing I have found that really increases RB accuracy more than anything is casting from lee tangical cut RB moulds and then tumbling your balls. I place the balls in one of them Christmas cookie tins and hide it in the trunk of the wifes car. After a few months of her driving the balls come out looking like Hornady swaged balls and they shoot real good.

[Fly]

My, My, still so much to learn????

Fly

[waksupi]

I guess I'll have to do some testing with this when I have time. From your first test groups, I just don't trust your bench technique too well.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I guess I'll have to do some testing with this when I have time. From your first test groups, I just don't trust your bench technique too well.

Good we need another test.

I have shot BR-small bore and Highpower so i am pretty good off bags and in position.I currently shoot 3 day a week off bags and shoot and run CBA matches so my technique is as goods as it gets.Not bragging but i can evaluate accuracy off a rest as i believe most experienced shooters can.

Just because a small test in contradictory to your theory dont blame it on me.
Too much muzzle loading is lore rather than facts i believe to make it seem harder than it needs to be.

G-

[waksupi]

Good we need another test.



Just because a small test in contradictory to your theory dont blame it on me.
Too much muzzle loading is lore rather than facts i believe to make it seem harder than it needs to be.

G-

What I found contradictory was the groups you posted, with the off balance balls having a tighter group than the good balls. You had no real explanation for the variation, which is what puzzled me. If you would shoot ten groups of each, and then average them, I think you would then have a better basis to make the statement. I think groups would also need shot at 100 yards to see if there was going to be dispersion.
Not arguing the point really, but consistency is needed in testing.

[nanuk]

dispersion

that is the word I was looking for.


but really, for hunting, what is the MAXIMUM effective range of RB's in the different calibers?

ie/when do they stop penetrating to the other side?

[nanuk]

Thanks for showing your tests. For myself, I have had around an inch different in groups at fifty yards, with weighed and un-weighed round balls.
My question is, what is the explanation of the larger group with un-drilled balls?


That is a mystery.it was the first group of the day so maybe my eyes were warming up.


Perhaps your eyes just needed to get some fouling?