BP turret rifle in the '60's?

[trooperdan]

Way back in the '60's I seem to recall a black powder rifle of small caliber, maybe .22 or .32 that was a turret rifle. The chamber rotated out of line with the bore to load the powder and ball. It wasn't expensive, more of a novelty but I've been thinking it would be kewl to have one now. Was it made by Rocky Mountain arms? Anyone else remember this item? Now that I think about it, it might even have been marketed as a kit.

[madcaster]

Sir,
You are correct,Rocky Mountain Arms,but I have never seen one in person,only in a Gun Digest.

[Bent Ramrod]

They were made by Rocky Mountain Arms, and for what they were, I thought they were kind of expensive at the time. Have seen a couple for even higher "collector" prices at gun shows, and the son of a friend of mine found one at a gun store a few years ago for $75.

What put me off buying one for the price originally asked was the firing mechanism, which was a skinny stamped trigger and hammer with a chintzy little spring better suited to a cap gun. Of course, the rifle actually is a cap gun; it fires paper caps to ignite the little black powder charge in the turret. Your face is quite close to the breech and there is no provision to cup or fence any percussion cap fragments.

Forward of the hammer, the little gun was much better fabricated. The turret was carefully fitted, and the barrel was OK. As I recall, the sights were rudimentary and the stock wood was plain but competently inletted. The caliber was allegedly .22, but .22 round balls were too small and .25 round balls were too big. They had to fit into the front of the turret by finger pressure and then squeeze a little when the turret was rotated/pushed into the rear of the barrel. Maybe a 6mm ball, somewhat sized down would do it; we couldn't find anything that would work really well in the time we were playing with it. After a cursory, and not very satisfactory couple shots (had to dig a couple stuck balls out of the turret) my friend gave it back to his son.

Kind of a cute idea; about on the order of a blackpowder .22 in power, but we never shot it enough to test accuracy or loadings. I still wonder how it would do after a string of shots. Supposedly it was offered in .32 caliber as well, but I never saw any other than .22.

[Slamfire]

I bought one for my sons. I don't remember the price. You loaded it with a #4 American Standard buckshot of about .24 caliber and 5 grains of powder. In the barrel was a long lede the swadged the bullet down to .22. So in essence you were firing a short conical, similar to Buffalo Bullet's Ballet. It recommended the use of Greeny Stick'em Caps, and held them on the non removable nipple with a cover that wasn't attached in any manner. The rifle itself was roughly the size of the Chipmunk .22, and much too small for adolescents, let alone for adults. The turret was removable so you could give the barrel a good scrubbing, but the powder chamber was conical in nature, and hard to clean It ignited substitute powders well enough, as it was inline in nature.The danged thing was too slow to load to keep the attention of children under the age of 10. I thing an Hopkins & Allen Buggy Rifle would be a better gun for youths, but some don't care for the underhammer desicn. My youngest took it with him when he left home, and sawed it down to pistol size. When we collected his effects after his death, it was not there. I have no idea what he did with it. :brokenima

[gregg]

I bought one for my sons. I don't remember the price. You loaded it with a #4 American Standard buckshot of about .24 caliber and 5 grains of powder. In the barrel was a long lede the swadged the bullet down to .22. So in essence you were firing a short conical, similar to Buffalo Bullet's Ballet. It recommended the use of Greeny Stick'em Caps, and held them on the non removable nipple with a cover that wasn't attached in any manner. The rifle itself was roughly the size of the Chipmunk .22, and much too small for adolescents, let alone for adults. The turret was removable so you could give the barrel a good scrubbing, but the powder chamber was conical in nature, and hard to clean It ignited substitute powders well enough, as it was inline in nature.The danged thing was too slow to load to keep the attention of children under the age of 10. I thing an Hopkins & Allen Buggy Rifle would be a better gun for youths, but some don't care for the underhammer desicn. My youngest took it with him when he left home, and sawed it down to pistol size. When we collected his effects after his death, it was not there. I have no idea what he did with it. :brokenima

I remember Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times haveing a write up about that Rifle?
Seems like after all these years of reading about different grades But don't remember different cals. That was about 1975 or 1975.

[Lucky Joe]

I recall an article about such a gun. I think I know just about where it is, give me a day or two and I'll try to dig it out scan it and post it. Seems to me I know where there is one and I think it is for sale because I was going to buy it, then I forgot about it. I'll have to check into it thanks for reminding me.

[Tom W.]

I recall that you could use smokless powder in the .32 if you were so inclined. I wrote to the company, and even got a brochure, but that was when I was in the 5th or 6th grade.... in the mid '60's

[KCSO]

I shot one of the RMAC turret rifles in about 1971. They were selling them at a local shop for $90.00 and you could buy a pretty good 22 for that money. The rifle shot OK, but not super accurate. Say 1 1/2" or a little more at 50 yards and they did leak just a litle at the breech. They had no appeal for the traditional folks and no utility for anyone else especially when you could get a good 22 cheaper. It was a novel idea but had no practical value.

[Dframe]

I had one and found it to be a fun little rifle. My wife loved it. Regretable she sold it several years ago. I wouldn't mind finding another one.

[carbine]

I have one in .22. They came with a roll of caps that fit under a metal cap/anvil. I also have a bag of #4 shot with it in the ack of the safe.

[Dframe]

Well if you ever deceide to sell it, please give me a PM.
Dframe

[carbine]

Let me think about it. That might be doable

[John Taylor]

If I remember right, it took 5 grains of BP or three grains of bullseye.

[Dframe]

Seems right to me. I don't remember exactly. Heck I may still have a few #4 buckshot around here somewhere.

[KCSO]

Shot one in 1970 something and was not impressed, overpriced cheaply made some kind of substitute for a muzzleloader 22 something. I wouldn't waste money on one.

[Bent Ramrod]

I finally got hold of one myself, just out of curiosity. The action, up to the front of the hammer, is pretty chintzy all right, and certainly would have been a "quality issue" limiting sales appeal. The buttplate is a crude piece of copper-washed sheet metal, apparently cut with tinsnips to fit the butt, and attached with tiny hardware-store wood screws. Forward of the hammer, the quality of manufacture is markedly better, the turret well-fitted, the barrel as well done as any "affordable" .22 and the detachment/safety mechanism adequate, if basic. However, the functioning of the gun is marred by the fact that there is really no commercial ball that would fit into the turret with thumb pressure. I have to partially swage Hornady #4 buck shot in a 0.228" die to get it to fit below the lip of the turret so it can revolve back to battery. A .22 lead ball is too small, and a cap-and-ball lever tool would be needed to load a .24 caliber ball.

I would think the advantage of a turret BP rifle over a muzzleloader would be faster loading, but this problem reduces this advantage to nothing. I am tempted to ream the front of the turret chamber out to .24 caliber. It's already conical shaped; just a little too small.

A .22LR case full of black powder seems to be about right. I need the centers out of two modern paper caps, front to back, in order to get the gun to fire. So far, it's doing about 1-1/2" at 25 yards or so, but I haven't got the cleaning and lubing procedure down. Also, the BB gun sights on the thing won't ever make it into a target rifle.

I can't explain it, but despite all the design and quality "issues," the little clunk is still kind of fascinating, in its way. I guess I like a challenge.

I would be interested to hear anybody else's experiences and solutions to better accuracy and easier loading with this gun.

[45 Bravo]

You talk about it, but photos, photos, photos please..

[Bent Ramrod]

Here ya go.

89483

89484

89485

The last one shows the turret and the little metal cover for the paper cap(s) off the rifle. Today's caps are so pathetically weak it often takes a few misfires even with two in a stack to clear the channel and start the thing firing. After that, it shoots pretty consistently for as long as I have ammunition and want to shoot and clean it. I usually schmear a little Bore Butter around the seated ball a la cap and ball revolver, but the barrel will crud up quickly even so.