Do you hunt with HPs?

[Wilson]

Who hunts with hollow points? What have you found as to killing critters with HPs?
During the last two years, I've smoked several critters with the LEE C430-310-RF. It really hammered them! DRT
But, after reading "From Ingot to Target", I decided I'd like to give HPs a go this season.
After a rough start, I've got some 330 gr Gould's cast up for my 45/70 Buffalo Classic and I've got a batch of .44 boolits from a MiHec mold ready to load for my new CVA Scout. I hope to sight in and do load tests this weekend.
I'm still looking for a HP for my 3 .45 Colt Buffalo Classics.
So is anyone using HPs for their hunting? I'd be sure interested to read your feed back. What boolit? What animal? What effect?

[runfiverun]

i'm in the no camp a flat point and diameter are plenty.
a soft enough alloy that maybe some nose muuushh occurs is fine with me,but i would rather have the penetration.

[white eagle]

I have only shot one deer so far with a cast hp
liked the outcome easy to follow blood trail complete penetration
plan on using them again

[sixshot]

There's always a balancing act with cast HP's, especially if they are plain base. You have to shoot them fast enough to give you some expansion but if you go to far you can get leading. A GC bullet allows you to speed things up a bit & still get the expansion you're looking for. I've taken 1/2 animals with the #457122 Gould plain base with great results....but I didn't run them too hard. A hard, brittle HP does nothing.
I much prefer a flat nose solid or a softnose cast. The softnose cast is the finest hunting bullet ever designed because you can do anything you want with it, slow, fast, soft, hard, still works because of the pure lead nose. You tune them to your velocity & they are super. Just use regular cast for practice & softnose for hunting.

Dick

[Larry Gibson]

I've been hunting (assuming deer+ game?) with cast HPs since the early '70s. I've killed a lot of deer+ with them in calibers from .30 - 45 in numerous rifle and handgun cartridges. I prefer them to any other type of cast bullet. A blend of the correct size and shape of HP, alloy softness and minimal impact velocity at farthest expeced range is essential for best cast HP performance. Howver, if perchance the HP doesn't open then you still have the effectiveness of the FP design.

I prefer GC'd bullets for HPing because they can be driven to higher velocity with the softer alloys needed for best HP effectiveness in most cartridges pushing over 1200 fps.

Larry Gibson

[x101airborne]

I have only a few cast boolit kills under my belt so far, but I have used solids and HP's both. I havent used a HP in a rifle because I just havent had a need for one yet. My NOE 338-225 is HP'd, but I havent done anything with it yet. I hope that changes soon. All my HP kills have been from a handgun. 44, 41, 45, etc. I can tell you that a 200 pound sow on a run hit with a HP pistol boolit doesn't stand a chance. These are just my experiences as short as they are.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I'm seeing such a high degree of effectiveness with a simple WFN boolit, I wonder why the question is even being ask.

I am talking hunting/shooting game animals such as deer an elk here.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[AnthonyB]

My cast HPs have taken deer launched from a 45-70, 30-06, and 308W. Bang/flop is the normal reaction, although one heart shot deer did manage a few yards.
Tony

[runfiverun]

keep the replies up, this could get interesting.....

[BABore]

All depends on the application, alloy, hardness, velocity, meplat, and intended range. I'm in both camps and match the aforementioned to the situation. Just like matching a cup & core rifle bullet, bonded or partition type to an application. Life's too short to tie yourself to one theory or camp.

[Wolfer]

All depends on the application, alloy, hardness, velocity, meplat, and intended range. I'm in both camps and match the aforementioned to the situation. Just like matching a cup & core rifle bullet, bonded or partition type to an application. Life's too short to tie yourself to one theory or camp.

I think I'm in this camp also, while I've shot several critters in the deer/ coyote size with flat nosed 45 slugs I've only shot a couple with HPs. Not enough to form an opinion yet. While the solids worked pretty good I wouldn't mind having a bigger hole and a better blood trail as long as I can still get penetration.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Wolfer,

I'll be the first to say I am not long experienced in the taking of game with cast boolits, but with the 2 elk and 3 deer presently to the credit of my 45/70, I simply do NOT want any bigger holes.

Read for quite awhile before starting down this road, about eating right up to the hole with cast boolits, but in truth just never expected to have the hole be quite so large. :groner:

No way in the world do I want a bigger hole. This would go tripple or more with the LBT 350gr WFN/LFN that I took the first deer with.

That round went out the tube at about 2300fps and the 465gr used since then has been leaving at between 1600 - 1700fps and believe me, it leaves plenty of hole!

Now maybe I haven't seen the total picture but everything I have read about the game taking ability of the WFN cast boolits is true in spades, at least if my results are any indication.

I never expected to see this kind of results from a non-expanding cast boolit.

AWESOME! :awesome: [smilie=w:

CDOC

[Coffeecup]

I've hunted with cast HPs in the past, but any more lean strongly towards using cast softnoses. I didn't have problems with the cast HPs, but the cast softnoses seem to be more consistently accurate and to penetrate better even while expanding. I'm pretty sure that is due to the harder lead in the base. . . . and that leaves me wondering how the HPs would do with soft noses/hard bases. Has anyone tried it?

[Wolfer]

CDOC
I'm picking up what you laying down here. I'm shooting a 45 colt at 1000 fps and my holes are 45 cal.
I believe the higher velocity/ heavier boolit/ larger meplat/ better momentum will equal much larger holes

[375H&HGuy]

This thread comes at an opportune time for me since I am currently working up both hollow point and flat nosed loads for my 9.3x57 for the upcoming deer season.

The hollow point I have been testing starts at 280 grains (minus the HP) going about 1350 fps. Into wet phone books at 25 yards I am getting 59% weight retention and about 14 inches of penetration with the hollow point. The flat nose at the same velocity retained 94% and drove an inch or so deeper into the phone books. The hollow point made a more substantial hole for the first 3 or 4 inches then the damage was virtually the same. Both loads are very accurate and shoot on the iron sights out to 100 yards which is my self- imposed limit.

[softpoint]

I've used both. Whitetail, and even our hogs here in Texas aren't particularly tough or hard to kill. Whitetails are easy to penetrate. I killed 2 bucks this past season with 45/70, pure lead paper patched 340 grain. 46.5 grains of RL7. This load chrono'ed 1950 avg. fps out of my rifle. Longest range of the 2 was right at 90 yards, the other about 70 yards. Both were slightly quartering away from me. Even with this soft bullet, I still got complete penetration. There was a bit more tissue damage than I prefer, but those 2 deer never took a step after they were hit. I'd rather have a little more tissue damage than to have to track one in the thicket, and some places here, if they even run 75 yards, they can be hard to get out of the briars. And, since the bullets were going all the way through the animal, they were doing all they could do.
I am working on using hollowpoints this coming season. One will be the Gould 330 grain. plainbase. I've used it before. It's limitations, as others have pointed out, is the fact it is plainbase, and can give leading if cast too soft. The other is a 500 grain RCBS that I am having a large hollowpoint put in. The HP will be large enough to significantly reduce the weight of this bullet. It is gascheck design, and I should be able to run it quite soft. We will see how they do. Perhaps no better or worse than a regular flatpoint on these size critters.

[Fenring]

I have shot numerous pigs with the .44 Devastator. Mine are simple air cooled clip on WW's and are ready to fly at 275gr. I load them to 1650fps from my Ruger 96/44 levergun.

Expansion is extremely violent. They will often stay inside pigs around 50kg, most often under the skin on the far side if it's a side on shot. Sometimes entry holes are very dramatic too, if a bone is hit close to the surface. Many of my shots are at running pigs so shots into the rear end are very commonplace.

On the left are three Devastators. All recovered under the offside skin, having lost the nose cone or about 100gr of weight IIRC. The other monster is the Lee 310gr flat nose. Recovered at 314gr. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Goodooga%202010/P1050767.jpg

This is an ENTRY hole, the bullet having hit the spine and torn a heap of flesh out. This pig was maybe 40kg, not a big one, and was DRT.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/gpigs2012/P1010372.jpg

This small pig, maybe 25kg, was shot in the rear as it ran off and was DRT. You can see what the boolit has done upon striking the hip bones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/gpigs2012/P1010336.jpg

This big fella was shot right on the point of the shoulder at about 50m. He sat back on his behind and keeled over dead. It looks like some frags have burst off the shoulder bone going by the small exit wound just off the shoulder from the entry wound.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000726.jpg

This boar was shot on the run at about 20m. The shot hit the left testicle (ouch) and must have gone up into the boiler room as he was DRT also.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000680.jpg

Another big fella, double tapped as he ran past me. First shot was a bit too far back, 2nd one and he was DRT.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000678.jpg

I like the HP's as they will give me a bit of leeway with soft tissue damage if placement is a bit off, as it tends to be with running shots at times, but they will drive deep enough on the bigger pigs too.

[softpoint]

I've hunted with cast HPs in the past, but any more lean strongly towards using cast softnoses. I didn't have problems with the cast HPs, but the cast softnoses seem to be more consistently accurate and to penetrate better even while expanding. I'm pretty sure that is due to the harder lead in the base. . . . and that leaves me wondering how the HPs would do with soft noses/hard bases. Has anyone tried it?

I've thought about doing just that, and since I'm getting a mold HP'ed right now I am going to try it. It may be a bugger to cast the hp nose out of pure lead, though and get a good cast. Since I keep a small Lee pot just for pure lead casting right by my RCBS pot, I can heat them both up and give it a go. Don't need many just to hunt with.:drinks:

[Wilson]

Very good info so far. In can hardly wait to get in the woods next month.

[BABore]

The easiest method to get a soft nose is to cast the boolit from 50/50 WW-Pb with maybe 1% tin. Water drop from a hot mold. Size and check right away, but don't lube. After a week or two cure time, stand the boolits up in a pie pan and fill with water up to the crimp groove or where you want the soft portion to start. Heat the exposed nose with a small torch til you see a slight color change. Kind of the reverse of waiting for a sprue to solidify and set. Remove, lube, and load. You just made a cast Partition. You can also go to a local welding supply and purchase a 325-350 F Tepil stick crayon. Apply to the nose and heat till it melts.

[waksupi]

I'm one who does not like a hollow point for anything bigger than a coyote. Look at the pictures in the hunting section of damage done by hollow points. Lots of blood shot meat. Too big of a wound channel to bleed out efficiently. Several have mentioned shooting game, and not getting full penetration. Lack of penetration, and meat destruction are boolit failure, to me.

[softpoint]

The easiest method to get a soft nose is to cast the boolit from 50/50 WW-Pb with maybe 1% tin. Water drop from a hot mold. Size and check right away, but don't lube. After a week or two cure time, stand the boolits up in a pie pan and fill with water up to the crimp groove or where you want the soft portion to start. Heat the exposed nose with a small torch til you see a slight color change. Kind of the reverse of waiting for a sprue to solidify and set. Remove, lube, and load. You just made a cast Partition. You can also go to a local welding supply and purchase a 325-350 F Tepil stick crayon. Apply to the nose and heat till it melts.

That would be the easiest way, and since it is cast in one piece, shouldn't separate. Being an experimenter I will try it a couple of ways. I won't, however reheat my mold till the pre- cast nose melts as one method describes. I can't believe that's not hard on molds I will try the way you describe, plus I may cast a hot pure lead nose out of a small dipper made to hold just the correct amount, and immediately cast a base of harder alloy. Since I have little experience casting softnose slugs, this may be a challenge. Good thing is, being a welder by trade, I have some tempil sticks laying around the shop:grin:

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ya know, I'm inclined to pay attention to what Bruce (Babore) says.

That is if you really think there is need to go beyond a good WFN boolit.

Maybe with some sub .45 calibers there is? But then maybe that is a personal bore size problem ?? :kidding::kidding:

However, Bruce guided me through the process of selecting mold, alloy, powder, etc. for my 45/70, and what he said rang true, and worked.

Maybe that is why I am so very impressed with the the game taking ability of the WFN in my 45/70. [smilie=w:

Now, if you all are think'in ya really need an expanding boolit, just maybe ya should be thinking about getting a real gun, one where the caliber starts with a, "4" ! :bigsmyl2:

Real cast boolit guns start with .45 [smilie=l::awesome:

CDOC

[Grandpas50AE]

I agree with you Waksupi, solids for anything larger than coyote just plain work well. Many in my hunting camp have taken deer with my .357 173 gr. Kieth SWC, .41 Mag. 220 gr RCBS SWC, .44 Mag 429241's, and never lost any deer using them. We have never recovered one of the boolits due to full penetration, but I'd rather recover the deer than the boolit. Just my 2 cents wirth.

[sixshot]

I've stated before that one of the places that a softnose cast really shines is one you are using a sixgun thats maybe a little bit on the small size like a 357 maggie. You will get some expansion, perhaps in the neighborhood of a 41 caliber & still get plenty, if not complete penetration.
If your alloy & mould is correct (hot) you will not & cannot get any seperation of the 2 parts, they are effectively welded together if done properly. I use a small pot with pure lead & a larger pot with WW alloy & dump one immediately on top of the other, there's practically no seam at all & if there is one its ahead of the driving band. Seems like heating with a torch could be very tricky to not melt the edges of the front driving band, perhaps not.
As stated before a HP is velocity dependent, it needs to be run within certain parameters to work, just like any bullet, but they do work great. A softnose allows you to change everything to suit you & your velocity.
An example might be an older shooter that wants expansion but no leading at 900 fps, he simply adds more pure lead to the nose (5 BHN) & less water dropped WW's & gets the same performance as the guy that needs 1300 fps to make his HP work correctly, its basicly fool proof with some testing.
I've used them on deer, elk, bear & moose & I can't find a better bullet.

Dick

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sixshot,

You make the valid point about the HP being velocity dependent to correctly do it's job.

This brings us back to the point where caliber - dia. - is important, and the fact that a WFN nose boolit simply needs no expansion as it is expanded at the time of impact. At the point where it leaves the muzzle for that matter.

One thing I have noticed in my game taking is, the entrance wound is much larger with my cast boolits then the tiny hole seen during years of using "J" bullets. I am talking about the hole in the hide here, not the damage starting in the tissue below the hide as the "J" bullet expands.

Guess my point is, it makes no difference if I am at 20 feet with close to muzzle velocity or at 200 yds. with greatly reduced velocity, the WFN needs no added expansion to do it's work.

Now, I think we are having great fun here, giving our view points and pros/cons to our favorite cast boolit. Therefore I'm good with whatever your choices may be.

BUT, if your using a real gun, something starting with .45 in the name :mrgreen: I think you are missing a real, little effort bet by not trying the WFN boolits. No fuss, no muss, just results!

CDOC

[JJC]

If you look at post #17 I believe it is a flat nose that has expanded on the far right. I'm one for matching your alloy to the game. I do like flat noses and they can be made to expand alot or alittle depending on what you want. Cast some up and test them out on phone books or some other media. John

[9.3X62AL]

I'm a greedy jerk. I want it all. Wide caliber. Flat nose. Soft point. Boolit weight. Velocity.

My latest project involves the 30-06 and the Lee 200 grain casting. I have it running about 1900 FPS and staying well inside 2.00"/five cold shots @ 100 yards. 75 grain (#257420) donor slug for the point/pure lead, the shank is 92/6/2. I'm hoping for some coyote test-drives prior to deer season.

[sixshot]

Crusty, I've been using Keith style slugs for 45 years in my sixguns, in the last 15 years I've used a great deal of LFN & WFN slugs & they have worked great also. You are exactly right about a 41, 44, 45, or 475 slug not needing expansion to work its magic & although the bigger 45 & 475 caliber slugs should work better I've never yet proved it to myself in the field & that includes game in 7 states including Alaska & also Africa.
My argument for the softnose cast is when a hunter thinks/decides that he might need a little more oomp to get the game on the ground then they are the raspberries because there is a noticeable difference. Its pretty hard to actually rock a bull moose, my 370 gr softnose cast from my Ruger 480 sixgun rocked him hard.
I'd like to have one show me actual proof of a 250 gr 44 slug working better than a 250 gr 41 slug, I've taken many head of game with both & I've never seen any difference. But logic tells me there has to be a difference.
In your 45/70 at rifle velocities I would say a softnose would be too destructive, now, if the game just happened to be a Cape Buffalo you just might need a little extra "smack" a little bit of a softnose would give you that but still give you a lot of penetration...its always a trade off.

Dick

[waksupi]

If you look at post #17 I believe it is a flat nose that has expanded on the far right. I'm one for matching your alloy to the game. I do like flat noses and they can be made to expand alot or alittle depending on what you want. Cast some up and test them out on phone books or some other media. John

Pretty darn good, when they GAIN weight! :bigsmyl2:

[Larry Gibson]

I don't think anyone here is saying a non HP of any other design won't kill well. I think all that is said is that a proper HP or soft nosed cast bullet will kill better.

This no different than with jacketed bullets. On medium game (deer, elk, bear, etc.) a FMJ will kill them, a RN FMJ will kill better, a RN soft point even better and a soft point spitzer even better at a longer range. It is a proven fact that the expanding bullet is the more efficient killer. It is also why FMJs and "solids" aren't legal to hunt wit in most all locations in the US.

Same thing applies to cast bullets, in any given caliber a soft nose or HP cast bullet that expands properly will kill more efficiently than a RN cast or one with a meplat, even a large meplat. If your hunting conditions (range and animal size) are such that a hard cast SWC, WFN or meplatted bullet kill sufficiently for you then no problem. Some of us prefer the increased efficiency of the soft nose or HP that expands andkills quicker is all. I've not found a properly HP'd cast bullet to damage any more meat to speak.

Is one "better" than the other? Probably not if the shooter knows the range limitations and puts the bullet in the right place for a proper killing shot. One does kill quicker than the other in many instances though and tat's enough reason for many of us to prefer the HP or the softer nosed cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

Agreement with the above, but with the proviso that expansion capability is a "potential" benefit, and not a guaranteed outcome. Sometimes even the high-dollar j-words fail to expand as designed. If this sounds like an argument favoring larger calibers, you might be right. :)

30 caliber is the smallest diameter cast bullet I'll attempt using on a game animal larger than a coyote, and that 30-bore will weigh at least 150 grains--have a flat point--and its front 1/3 will consist of unalloyed lead. Again, I want it all.

[Marvin S]

i'm in the no camp a flat point and diameter are plenty.
a soft enough alloy that maybe some nose muuushh occurs is fine with me,but i would rather have the penetration.

I'm going with this one. I have used the Ranch Dog in 30 cal on deer and it has done well for me. If I expect the animal to get bigger or tougher I'll use a larger caliber. 25 WCF for squirrel's and such, 30 to 35 cal for white tail deer, 43 to 45 for the bigger beasties.

[Fenring]

Lack of penetration, and meat destruction are boolit failure, to me.

Conversely, a boolit that drives deep into the vitals, destroys a lot of tissue along the way and dumps 100% of its energy inside the animal instead of 100 yards beyond the animal is boolit success. 8-)

Either way, you still need to match the boolit to the calibre, to the game and to the purpose. :)

[hackberry]

i have used the Gould hp in my 1886 win(japan) and lbt 350mgc.HP cast of ww has accounted for over 100 hogs and a few whitetail.and is hard enough not to make to big hole in deer but will take a hog down very quick. mv is 1750 lbt blue soft lube, 26in barrel.sometimes the nose does break of but has worked well so far.LBT bullet i cast bhn 10 and only recovered 1(crippled steer).Lbt bullet runs 1830 and on a good day can get 1 1/2 groups. cast HP at 10 bhn and thats when the big hole starts.if i had to choose one bullet it would b the LBT.

[GLynn41]

since I got my MIha mold -- I use a lot of them never had a problem with lwn or Keith it is just fun out of my .410 GNR I get 1660 from a 5.5' barrel with a 210 hp and complete pentetration except on one doe as it was lenght wise and at 40 yrds stopping just under the skin under the hip -- I use the 215 pentapoint in .41 gnr TC at 1880 becasue it expands slower or seems to -- but if the game gets larger the boolit becomes a solid but for deer size up to say 300# they seem fine

[jblee10]

I recently receive a Hiha 311 - 110gr HBWC but haven't had a chance to cast any yet. I intend to load some of these backward in my 30 carbine blackhawk and see how they work on ground squirrels. Does that count as hunting?

[Fenring]

Yes. :)

[goofyoldfart]

I'm sorta in both camps, but tend to lean to the "LFP" or "WFP" side. Due to my working schedule before I retired, I didn't have a lot of time to go hunting. I did get to do some summer woodchuck hunting in farm fields and for those I preferred wide flat points. Again I was taking head shoots and an animal hit was "DIRT" ( I is for instantly). Since I cook woodchucks (makes a damn good stew), It helped that half the head was gone. During large game season, I was generally working 16--18 hour days and was too tired to go hunting. Now that I'm retired I plan on going on some deer hunting, Good Lord willing. It will be strickly cast bullet hunting and with my eyes--probably 100yrds or less. Probably pistol in .44spl or .45lc. Be that as it may--both schools have merit. God Bless to all and theirs.

GOF (goofyoldfart)

[357maximum]

I am in the give me a good flat point or soft flatpoint camp. I prefer to butcher my deer with a knife not a spatula.


All my deer hunting cast guns travel between 1300 and 2700 fps....below that 1300mark I might try a soft HP on deer......maybe.


I like the cast HP idea on things ya ain't gonna eat but I cannot make myself believe in cast HP's for deer. After the few times I have tried them I just do not like what they "CAN" do when they land in the wrong spot. I took both front shoulders out on a whitetail doe a few years back with a 358156HP in my 8inch DanWesson....it was a mess. A mess that my cast flatpoints would not have made. It is not the only time I have been "impressed" in the bad kinda way with cast hp's.

[Larry Gibson]

This deer was shot with a 35-200-FN HP'd with the Forster HP tool. Cartridge was 35 Rem, rifle a rebarreled M91 Argentine, velcodity was 2150 fps and the range to the deer was 90 yards +/-. Deer staggered sideways and collapsed. as can be seen not much more meat damage, actually ate it all. Penetration was through and through. Photo's show entrance and exit.

Larry Gibson

[softpoint]

I am going to try this boolit this next season, big hp, but with 1/2" of solid behind the hollow point. Buckshot just did this one for me. It was a 500 grain RCBS that cast 520 grains out of my alloy. Now it is 470 grains. I need to run it about 1400-1450 out of my 45/70. Wondering what would be the best powder...:coffee:

[jblee10]

I think that might work on deer, ha, ha.

[michael30.06]

Pushed fast enough that will work on anything.
Wonder if I should get a HP mold for my 500 S&W

[JJC]

I am going to try this boolit this next season, big hp, but with 1/2" of solid behind the hollow point. Buckshot just did this one for me. It was a 500 grain RCBS that cast 520 grains out of my alloy. Now it is 470 grains. I need to run it about 1400-1450 out of my 45/70. Wondering what would be the best powder...:coffee:

Try Varget, 46 gr works for me in a Marlin with a 500 gr NOE, 1640 fps. I don't remember where I took the data from (Lyman 49th?). I wrote it down at the store, but I have 45 gr as 16,700 cup.

[softpoint]

Try Varget, 46 gr works for me in a Marlin with a 500 gr NOE, 1640 fps. I don't remember where I took the data from (Lyman 49th?). I wrote it down at the store, but I have 45 gr as 16,700 cup.

Can't get that much Varget behind this boolit and still have it feed in my Marlin. Couldn't get a suitable amount of AA2495 in there either. I have a few loaded today with AA2015, I have had pretty good luck with other 45/70 loads with this powder, and may be able to reach the velocity I want. If not, I guess it will be 4198, or a pistol powder. This boolit is 1.3 inches long, and about .875 is inside the case. The hollow point as I have the pin set right now is .700 deep.:smile:

[Fenring]

Yeah that might just work on deer..... :D

[softpoint]

Yeah that might just work on deer..... :D

Pretty sure it will. :-D But big hogs and maybe a Nilgai are on the list too.

[pmer]

I'm not that worried about hollow points for deer hunting. I'd sooner try it in a 45 ACP but haven't done that either.

I want to say that it's a solution to a problem that don't exist but don't dare to because of the thought and skill needed to make good HPs. :)

Would it be better to say it's a suggestion to a situation that might come up? :kidding:

[BABore]

I am going to try this boolit this next season, big hp, but with 1/2" of solid behind the hollow point. Buckshot just did this one for me. It was a 500 grain RCBS that cast 520 grains out of my alloy. Now it is 470 grains. I need to run it about 1400-1450 out of my 45/70. Wondering what would be the best powder...:coffee:

Based on your OAL figured from post #46, I'm assuming your shooting this in a Marlin 1895. Try H335 with a Federal 210M match primer. This load does does special things with heavy boolits in Marlins and Rugers. Start around 44 grs with 46 being max.Quiz Crustyoldcoot on it as well. He's using it with a 465 gr GC boolit. H322 with the same primer will get a little more speed, but is not as accurate. 44 grs would be about max with H322. Faster powders may be tempting, but are better suited for lighter boolits in the 45-70.

Your heavy weight HP boolit is what I prefer for the 45-70. The nose can blow right off and you still have a very substantial shank for penetration. If impact velocity at extended range is insufficient for expansion, you still have a good meplat to back you up.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Seems a little light to me! [smilie=1: :mrgreen: :guntootsmiley:[smilie=w:


CDOC

[softpoint]

Based on your OAL figured from post #46, I'm assuming your shooting this in a Marlin 1895. Try H335 with a Federal 210M match primer. This load does does special things with heavy boolits in Marlins and Rugers. Start around 44 grs with 46 being max.Quiz Crustyoldcoot on it as well. He's using it with a 465 gr GC boolit. H322 with the same primer will get a little more speed, but is not as accurate. 44 grs would be about max with H322. Faster powders may be tempting, but are better suited for lighter boolits in the 45-70.

Your heavy weight HP boolit is what I prefer for the 45-70. The nose can blow right off and you still have a very substantial shank for penetration. If impact velocity at extended range is insufficient for expansion, you still have a good meplat to back you up.

I have both those powders, H335 and H322. I loaded 5 rounds with 40 gr. AA2015 and shot them this afternoon out of a GBL 1895 with ghost ring sights, 50 yards, 1 1/4 inches, for 5. With those sights on that gun, that is about the best I can do anyway. Was drizzling rain or I'd have set up the chrono. I have scoped 45/70's as well, but want to develop a load for this little gun right now. All I am looking for is about 1450 or so fps. Then I want to incrementally soften my alloy and do a bit of testing . Maybe my neighbor down the road will let me get up on a stepladder and shoot into his swimming pool...
And your correct, while the HP may not expand under certain conditions, or range, it can't hurt anything either.

[41mag]

Well as I hav mentioned in many post I am fairly new to all of this casting stuff. All I have to compare my boolits to is a long history of j-word HP which I have shot since I started out hand gunning. As I read through the post here it has seemed that most are shooting rifles with the occasional 460 or something thrown in.

Myself I am a long range type of hunter with my rifles and as such I have developed most of my loads for specific purposes and places that I hunt. I primarily only shoot hogs, but if the proper deer walks out I may be inclined to square off on him. I doubt that I will get into casting for my rifles in the near future, but I do have 3 grandsons who would benifit fomr the added light weight shooting experience.

That said I hunt with my revolvers on a regular basis. As most here from Texas do, I have hogs running across my little piece of real estate and I take them when ever I can. Just about every time I head through the gate I have something strapped to my side. I originally got into casting to feed the appetite of my 454 and loved the experience. I have now purchased several MP molds for my 41, 44, and 45 Colt, all based on the Keith style boolits. I got the whole pin assortment that was offered with them as I figured I might as well have the whole package and work for something rather than be left wishing I had gotten the other set.

This said I have poured up hundreds of them in each caliber and shot them into my little 6 gallon bucket trap at 50yds. The soft sandy loam dirt I use inside packs really well and at least stops them before they exit the bottom of the buckets. I have for the most part simply been using Iso Core alloy and found it is a bit brittle for the majority of loads in that I have lost the noses on most boolits I have recovered. While this is in no means an example of what they will do on a feral hog, I still would rather them hold the nose and simply roll back.

My testing as crude as it is has led me to blend up some softer alloy which is according to the calculator a 1.5/1.5/97 and I am hopeful that this will allow the bullets a bit more elasticity. My goal isn't so much saving any meat as there is always plenty to get, but more to dump the hog on its nose right now. I don't like chasing them and I like it even less when they chase me. Most of our shots range between arms lenght and 100yds. At the further distances I don't mind the boolits simply staying together and punching a caliber sized hole, but up close I want them to deliver maximum impact and energy. Since most of my loads are running below 1200fps I think I am headed the right direction with my alloy. I am working with the smaller of the pins which came with my molds as I know there is such as thing as over expansion, and I am not looking for that. I am looking for somewhat controlled expansion. If the nose rolls back to or past the bottom of the cavity and then breaks off somewhere inside or almost through a decent sized hog I will be happy as it will deliver one heck of a punch. However most of the noses I have recovered were only inches inside the bucket lids. This tells me they are rolling right back and tearing off almost immediately. With the lid only being 1/16" thick, this isn't going to go far on a broadside shot to a 200# hog.

I would however appreciate any input form those of you who do use handguns and HP's. I finially have enough materials to play with different alloys and can work from soft to hard. However I know that harder isn't better. Worst case I can always simply put in the blank pins and cast the standard SWC, but I really like those evil looking holes in the ends of them.

[Fenring]

As far as boolit testing goes, while dirt / paper / gelatin etc will compare boolits to one another fired into those media, I've yet to come across an animal made of a homogenous mass of anything, let alone a homogenous mass of dirt / paper or gelatin.

There's no substitute for testing boolits in the field on critters IMO.

[Larry Gibson]

41Mag

[I][Since most of my loads are running below 1200fps /I]

Suggest you leave the antimony out and try 30-1, 20-1 and 16-1 lead - tin alloys. They will work best for that lessor velocity and will better resist the sloughing off of the expansion petals.

Larry Gibson

[crabo]

Maybe my neighbor down the road will let me get up on a stepladder and shoot into his swimming pool...
.

Better shoot into the deep end!

[Jim]

Don't need to do either. Hit the water at a 45 degree angle. It won't skip and will stop before it gets to the bottom, assuming the pool is 4 ft. deep or so.

[softpoint]

Don't need to do either. Hit the water at a 45 degree angle. It won't skip and will stop before it gets to the bottom, assuming the pool is 4 ft. deep or so.

Stepladder just to keep my rifle from getting too wet. :mrgreen:Anyway, he laughed about it, but his wife isn't convinced I should do it. She said, "you ain't serious are 'you?" I answered that I'd be there the next morning in my swim trunks with rifle under one arm and stepladder under the other. Thats when she declined........

[41mag]

Stepladder just to keep my rifle from getting too wet.

I can certainly attest to that.

I hooked an alligator gar, while doing a little bass fishing at my friends gravel pit one evening. I was there by myself waiting on him and some other friends to get back from his other place, and I was just killing time. Trust me when I say a 5' gar on a 6' worm rod is a double handful.

I somehow managed to keep him in the little corner I was fishing and after around 10 minutes of tug-a-war, I had him slowly going in about a 10' circle out from the bank with the closes pass being within about 4 feet of me. I had my 41 magnum on my side and figured that it was going to be the only way to end the ordeal, as neither of the two of us was going to give up and the line apparently WASN"T going to break. So I managed to get the Redhawk out of the holster, and into my right had, which was a task because every time I let up on the gar he wanted to go down. I pulled really good and as he made the pass by me I fired the first 200gr Rem SJHP, shot just over his head, and the back blow of water completely soaked me. Course it didn't make him feel any better about his situation either.

After another 5 or so minutes of tug and pull I had him nosed up on the bank where the second shot put a stop to everything. I managed to get him half way out, tied off to a stub, and left him there to go get my 4 wheeler. When I got back he was being cared for by one of the resident 10' gators, which had apparently come over to see what all the commotion was about. I figured I had already had enough excitement at that point, and the gar wasn't worth wrestling for.

[softpoint]

Ihave caught some pretty big gar on rod and reel too, Trinity river has plenty of 'em, and especially where it has water backed up into Bedias Creek.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Nope, bullets/boolits don't go far in water!

When I was a kid in Eastern Oregon, there was a high banked section of the JohnDay river not far from our house. Happened to be a big bunch of BIG CARP in this spot.

So, one day the boys from next door and I took our hunting rifles down to harvest some carp. They had 270s and I was using my .32 Winchester Special.

Funny, but those carp seemed really close to the surface yet after repeated shots there was no blood in the water and no carp on the bank. :( :-?

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[softpoint]

One of my friends, some years ago actually did fire some .45 acp. Gold Dots into his swimming pool to test expansion. Put on his swim trunks and went in and retrieved them. They mushroomed quite nicely, too. That's where I got the idea:smile:I wish i did have a clear water container large enough to shoot into and retrieve the boolits.

[JJC]

I have thought about using a 8 or 10" pvc pipe. Cap the back end and maybe file down the cap up front thinner or figure something else out for the bullet to enter. Or the plastic empty coffee cans filled with water and tape up the lid. Stack them length wise end to end.

[41mag]

Well you could always do like the old FBI test and shoot into two 55 gallon barrels on atop of the other from a second story window, roof, or a tall ladder.

Like someone else mentioned, they don't go far before slowing and simply falling to the bottom. I have also been in a pool while some were shot into it.

As a side note, we were on the bottom in 10' of water and against the side directly below where the fellow was shooting from. He shot out at around a 45* angle from us so there was no danger of us being hit. I have to say it was pretty cool to watch the spiraling bubbles and the bullet slowing down.

[softpoint]

Plastic jugs and plastic coffee containers are ok, they just don't "heal" themselves. One shot, and you have to re-do the whole thing. A long, deep trough, I suppose. Or position a large pipe at an angle so you could fire directly into it.

[Thumbcocker]

A hardware cloth basket on a couple of ropes would make retrieval a lot easier.

[Fenring]

I shot a 185gr JHP from a .45 Glock into a 44 gallon drum of water - straight down. The bullet had enough oomph to hit the bottom and put a small dent.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

How deep is that 44gal container?

CDOC

[Fenring]

According to Wikipedia what we call a "44" is the same size as a US "55" so 33.5" high.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks!

Really !!!!! surprised the boolit would have enough "oomph" to dimple the bottom after that much water. Figured it would just be slowly settling to the bottom by that distance.

CDOC

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Rarely do I use a HP anymore. I get my load test done then cast up a few softer boolits just to fire that one shot. So far never had any regrets.
Mike in ILL.

[jimd46902]

I shot a Texas hog in the head with my 357 Marlin using 180 gr cast gas check bullets at about 35 yards, not only got complete penetration but went through the spine (just ahead of the pelvis) of a pig behind her that I did not see.. complete penetration also.

[Oreo]

Two birds with one stone eh? ;)

[michael30.06]

Now be honest, you were just saving money on reloading supplies. Shootin them 2 at atime.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Have thought I'd like to take a 2fer. Just need to get a couple whitetails lined up correctly when I have 2 tags. :bigsmyl2:

CDOC

[Wolfer]

I've told this story before but here it is again.
I once was wanting to check a boolit for gas cutting in my 45 colt. I duct taped the end of a 4" PVC pipe and propped it up on my baler tongue so it was at about a 30 degree angle.
I backed off about 5 ft and lined up with the pipe, when I lit the fire much to my surprise a 4" stream of water came at me like a fire hose, washed my hat off my head and the only dry spot I had was right down the middle of my back.
It blew the duct tape off of that 10' piece of pipe and still hit the ground hard enough to put a small ding in the nose of the boolit but it didn't appear to have any gas cutting.

[waksupi]

Uh huh, I see others here didn't take high school physics! This reminds me of a rice episode for catching boolits. :D;-):drinks:

[Oreo]

Likewise, it appears that no one here watches Mythbusters.

[nekshot]

siince we are way off the original post, in my early days of trying to see how boolits would perform I heard of shooting them in a bag of lime. It worked till one went thru the lime and penetrated my tractor sidewall. I usually learn quick when it costs me money.

[Wolfer]

siince we are way off the original post, in my early days of trying to see how boolits would perform I heard of shooting them in a bag of lime. It worked till one went thru the lime and penetrated my tractor sidewall. I usually learn quick when it costs me money.

Any collage you go to charges a tuition. The school of hard knocks is no different.
I've found there's a direct relationship between how much something costs you and how much you learn!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Great stories!!

Wolfer, yours is classic!

Sometimes things just seem to be a good idea! Been there and done that one way or the other! Maybe not this week, but the week ain't over, yet!

CDOC

[41mag]

Any collage you go to charges a tuition. The school of hard knocks is no different.
I've found there's a direct relationship between how much something costs you and how much you learn!

I think at times I graduated "summa cum laude" from Hard Knocks U.

I also totally agree with the latter as well, for sure. I know for a fact I still pay a tuition note every once in a while. :redneck:

[fcvan]

I have always wondered how well a box of drywall joint compound would do. Of course I pondered such a thing when a box of compound was cheap. I've read where folks have made their own gelatin by purchasing bulk gelatin from a restaurant supply place. Shooting into the pool, that's something I've only done with my Daisy Red Ryder Lever Action Repeating Carbine. Note: Mom will get irritated if you don't get the BBs before they leave a rusty spot at the bottom. Frank