Need Help - Case blew out

[toolz568]

This has been posted in reloading equipment and someone said this might be a better spot.

I need help trying to determine what happened to this shell. It is a 45 ACP that blew out the base. we had shot about 50 in a 1911 when it blew out. I pulled all the rest of the reloads and never found a single thing wrong with any of them. I never shoot hot loads and this pistol only likes jacketed bullets. I've narrowed it down to three things:

1. Over charge
2. defective or cracked case
3. bulge that did not allow the shell to seat properly

Any help would be great and If I should post this somewhere else, please let me know and If anyone shoots without safety glasses, this is a good lesson on how important they are. It ruined a good set of shooting glasses and destroyed the magazine.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_9682502c4d26310f3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6285)

[trooperdan]

Something prevented the slide from locking up! Ring of lead in the chamber, boollit protruding too far/case mouth too large. Appears from your post that you were loading J-word's, right? Do you use a case gauge or check every one by dropping it into the barrel with it out of the gun?

[35remington]

Ah.....if the gun doesn't lock up, that is, it's far enough out of battery that the cartridge is well out of the chamber, the gun won't fire.

Period. Out of battery firing is quite simply not going to happen with the 1911. I can post many learned sources that detail exactly why this is not a consideration for your issue. Here's one:

http://www.americanclassic1911forum.com/forumsii/showthread.php?677-FIring-out-of-Battery-The-myth

Given that double charging is quite possible, that's the way to bet. You most likely caused it with inattentive loading.

Clue #2 is the location of the blowout on the case head on your picture. That cartridge was fully in the chamber when it blew, because the blowout is in the unsupported area of the barrel ramp. Take the barrel out of the gun, reinsert the case if you can, and observe this for yourself. Also compare to an unblown case in the same chamber.

Afraid it's very much most likely that you did it.

[35remington]

The impossibility of out of battery firing is easy to demonstrate to onself. Move the breechface rearward by pulling on the slide, and observe that long before the cartridge can have any appreciable space to "fire out of battery" the hammer simply won't drop.

The 1911 won't fire if gun isn't locked up. This was done by JMB as part of the design process.

[geargnasher]

I'm having deja vu. I just posted to this in the reloading equipment forum, and here it is again. I see the same thing about impossibility of firing OOB has already been mentioned here.

Gear

[454PB]

I had a similar blowout with a 9mm, and I blame it on the boolit being jammed into the case during the feeding process, drastically raising pressure. I had fired hundreds of the same load recipe before it happened.

In my case, it blew the magazine from the gun, blew off the grips, and inbedded a piece of brass the size of a pencil lead in my cheek just below my shooting glasses. The unfired cartridge below the the failed case had the boolit nose melted off.

It's a scary experience, and makes you a believer in shooting glasses.

[Larry Gibson]

That is almost always indicative of a double charge or at least an over charge.

What are the load specifics?

Loaded on a progressive press?

Larry Gibson

[leftiye]

Resizing a badly bulged case can (and doing it to a case several times probly will) weaken the case. Over time resizing a bulge a bunch of times would probly do the same thing. My vote's for a weak case. If you overcharge it'll really let you know, not just perforate the case (which should also get your attention).

[Plate plinker]

I knew a guy who reloaded a single brass upwards of thirty times before it cracked. Not sure if I buy the case being weakend theory. Overcharge more likely is the cause. I second placing it in the chamber for some forensic study.

[Rocky Raab]

One guy who loaded a case 30 times does not prove that every single one of the billions of 45 ACP cases ever made is that good.

There are three likely possibilities (at least):

An over charge
A telescoped bullet
A weakened case

There's probably no way to definitively learn which it was without extensive and expensive lab testing. All you can really do is make sure it doesn't happen again.

Rigorously check powder charges. If you use a progressive machine, you are valuing your time over your gun - and your eyes. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it.

Make sure that you have good bullet fit and high case tension.

Inspect cases closely and discard any that show bulges, cracks or any other defect. Again, weigh the value of brass over gun and body parts.

[geargnasher]

I agree with Rocky. I had a minor blow-up in a Kimber with soft boolits (hollow points cast to expand) and insufficient case tension, the case that blew looked just like that one, and the last couple in the magazine were telescoped badly, which I discovered after I dug it out of the ground between my feet. Both grip panels blew off and the ejector sheared off its retaining pin. Usually a double-charge will cause some more serious damage like bulged or split barrel, spread slide, cracked frame around the link pin/slide stop pivot, or worse. I asked in the other thread, but I'll ask again here: What damage, if any, happened to the gun, and how did the rest of the rounds, if any, in the magazine look? If they telescoped you have a strong clue that case tension wasn't enough.

Gear

[captaint]

ogotz - the only question that I would add is - how long have you had the gun. Did you just get it, or have you fired lots of ammo through it ?? It is possible that someone did some feed ramp work and went too far. Taking too much material from the bottom of the barrel will leave too much unsupported case in the chamber. IF this was the case, the blown brass would look about like yours.. Just an idea. enjoy Mike

[Grandpas50AE]

I also agree with Gear and Rocky, it really looks like set-back to me. Easy way to fix set-back is size the boolit a little larger (if using cast). If using J-word perhaps a little 600 grit paper on the expander ball to reduce the size of the inside diameter of the case after expanding.

[XTR]

A little over 20 yrs ago the one that I had like that one was a lot more dramatic. I'm sure it was caused by a double charge of W231 to the tune of about 11 grains. It split the slide, blew out the mag and buried a lot of brass in my face that first managed to travel through the crack between the slide and frame.

I did it on a progressive, I know what I did, I pulled the handle, had a problem with one of the stations and didn't index, but I went far enough to activate the powder throw. Pulled the handle again and kept on seating bullets w/o knowing what was waiting for me. I loaded thousands of rounds when I was shooting USPSA/IPSC, only ever had 2 squibs and one KABOOM.

Most 45s do not have a fully supported chamber, if you get an over charge the brass lets go right over the feed ramp.

[Larry Gibson]

A little over 20 yrs ago the one that I had like that one was a lot more dramatic. I'm sure it was caused by a double charge of W231 to the tune of about 11 grains. It split the slide, blew out the mag and buried a lot of brass in my face that first managed to travel through the crack between the slide and frame.

I did it on a progressive, I know what I did, I pulled the handle, had a problem with one of the stations and didn't index, but I went far enough to activate the powder throw. Pulled the handle again and kept on seating bullets w/o knowing what was waiting for me. I loaded thousands of rounds when I was shooting USPSA/IPSC, only ever had 2 squibs and one KABOOM.

Most 45s do not have a fully supported chamber, if you get an over charge the brass lets go right over the feed ramp.

That is most often the cause of such with the 45 ACP. I'd bet if the OP slips that case into the barrel (disassembled from the gun) he will find the "blowout" perfectly matches the feed ramp and the case head is even with the barrel hood. That will tell proof positive the slide was locked and no OOB occured. With the OPs admitted "light load" a double charge could have caused the amount of excessive pressure to blow out the case. So, also, could a bullet pushed back into the case far enough during feeding.

Unfortunately tools568 (the OP) has not come back with the load data nor if the rounds were loaded on a progressive.

Larry Gibson

[MasS&W]

A 1911 is mechanically unable to fire out of battery. A cracked case would not cause this to happen, as the case does little, if anything, to hold in pressure. My vote is for an overcharge. Not the sexiest answer, but they happen. Looks like the CHS I got on my 38 a year back. Same thing.

[toolz568]

The case was loaded on a progressive press. I loaded 200 rounds ans had some primer issues. The round was loaded with 5 gr. of unique with a 230 gr. LRN. We had fired about 100 and had a few that were sticking. The 45 is really tight. After the case blew, I switched to factor loads. I pulled every remaining round and measured the powder and never found a single problem. I have moved back to a single stage for the time being.

[NSP64]

A 1911 is mechanically unable to fire out of battery. A cracked case would not cause this to happen, as the case does little, if anything, to hold in pressure. My vote is for an overcharge. Not the sexiest answer, but they happen. Looks like the CHS I got on my 38 a year back. Same thing.

A correctly functioning 1911 is designed not to fire out of battery. I was an army armorer back when we had 1911's and had some old war horses that would fire out of battery. I new disconnector fixes the problem.

I agree probably an over charge or boolit rammed into the case by the slide during loading. If reloading mixed MFG. brass sometimes different MFG's brass vary in the neck tension.

[rbt50]

chamber is not fully supported and a week case will blow out everytime.happens alot on glocks and 1911.

[Larry Gibson]

The case was loaded on a progressive press. I loaded 200 rounds ans had some primer issues. The round was loaded with 5 gr. of unique with a 230 gr. LRN. ...............

Have seen this many times with with just such a case blow out loaded on a progressive press. While fiddling with the "primer issues" an addition partial charge or a double charge is inadvertantly loaded in one case. The mechanical functioning of most all powder throwers on progressive presses means that another case was not "shorted" on powder as is common with a manually operated powder thrower when the powder "bridges". With a progressive press many times the thrower can be functioned inadvertently.

Larry Gibson

[x101airborne]

Sure looks like "Glock-block" blowout to me. A bulged case that is not fully resized all the way down just lacking a couple thousandths to seat properly, then fired. I have seen bunches of 40 S&W done like this. Was this range pick up brass or new brass?

[rbuck351]

I'm guessing a bullet got pushed back in the case on the way up the feed ramp. with boolits you need to make sure you have a little of the straight side of the boolit sticking out of the case for the neck to crimp into. RNs are easy to seat a little deep as you have to watch close to make sure you are not crimping on the ogive. The case neck needs just a little straight part of the bullet to bite into to prevent setback. I haven't tried but I don't know if you can get 10grs of unique in a 45acp case and still seat a 230gr bullet.