Reload Gone Wrong ?

[toolz568]

I need help trying to determine what happened to this shell. It is a 45 ACP that blew out the base. we had shot about 50 in a 1911 when it blew out. I pulled all the rest of the reloads and never found a single thing wrong with any of them. I never shoot hot loads and this pistol only likes jacketed bullets. I've narrowed it down to three things:

1. Over charge
2. defective or cracked case
3. bulge that did not allow the shell to seat properly

Any help would be great and If I should post this somewhere else, please let me know and If anyone shoots without safety glasses, this is a good lesson on how important they are. It ruined a good set of shooting glasses and destroyed the magazine.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_9682502c48686a412.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6284)

[waksupi]

Probably an over-ramped barrel I would guess. First cousin to a Glock bulge.

[geargnasher]

#4: Insufficient case tension allowing bullet to deep seat under recoil reducing case capacity to dangerous overpressure condition.

A 1911 shouldn't fire out of battery. Did it blow the magazine out and the stocks off?

Gear

[wv109323]

From the looks of the picture, The place where the case rupture took place was far enough back that there should have been enough wall thickness to accept the pressure.
What was the load and bullet weight?
What brand brass was this?
How many times reloaded?
Any know history of the case such as range pick-up,once fired?

[Wayne Smith]

Extremely out of focus picture but it looks as if the failure was just above the web. Any chance the case had been annealed?

[Dave C.]

I have seen it before. It was most likely a double charge.
Other than the mag and possibly the grips you should still be
good to go.

[flounderman]

It looks like the ramp might be cut pretty deep. I don't think it would fire if it wasn't closed. You didn't say what you were shooting for powder or how much. powder could have hung up in the measure and dumped an overcharge. I have never seen a 45 case fail. concievably if the brass was brittle, been fired a number of times with heavy loads, causing a bulge on the case and then full length resizing the bulge a number of times, you might get case fatigue, but I think it just was too much powder. did you notice any of the other rounds seemed weaker, or did you notice any difference in the powder charges in the ones you pulled. Have you checked the powder charge for consistancy? How are you loading them? progressive machine, throwing the charges as you load the shell. loading block? I like a loading block. You can look at the cases and if one doesn't look right you can dump it and recharge it. check some fired empties to see if there is a bulge ahead of the web from the ramp being cut a little deep.

[km101]

My first thought would be an overcharge or double charge. But without more info. you cant do anything but guess.

1. Has the ramp/chanber been cut? An unsupported case will somethime ruptore at this point.

2Were the bullets in any of the other rounds seated deeper due to recoil? Deeper seating can cause unsafe pressures.

3.Did the case show signs of a defect? Crack, split, corrosion?

Any or all of these could be a contributing factor. Check them out.

[Old Caster]

I would check by dry firing to see if it will fire when not completely closed. They are not supposed to fire when partially open but if the disconnector is wrong, it could. I think that if it were an overload it wouldn't have just gone out the end but would have burst the chamberl. I had a rimfire marvel do the same thing. -- Bill --

[LUBEDUDE]

#4: Insufficient case tension allowing bullet to deep seat under recoil reducing case capacity to dangerous overpressure condition.

A 1911 shouldn't fire out of battery. Did it blow the magazine out and the stocks off?

Gear


I think Gear nailed it.

Years ago, I had the same thing happen to me. Identical picture. I pulled hundreds of bullets. NO DOUbles. Turned out to be as Gear stated.


And yes! It did blow the mag out, and the stocks off in pieces. Sure stung the hands!


That was before I learned to test my taper crimps by pressing the bullet hard against the work bench .

[rbt50]

most 1911 and glock 40 and 10 mm have unsupported chamber and a weak case will blow out.
have seen this mostly on 10mm and 40 sw

[LUBEDUDE]

most 1911 and glock 40 and 10 mm have unsupported chamber and a weak case will blow out.
have seen this mostly on 10mm and 40 sw

Agreed, and in my case and as Chargar mentioned, when the bullet gets pushed back into the case from recoil or hitting the feed ramp, pressures rise and the case blows out at the weakest point as you mentioned.

[MtGun44]

Double charge most likely. Been there, done that. I have seen several others
do this, too - double charged.

POSSIBLE that the boolit telescoped into the case on feeding and pumped up the
pressures, but double charge is by far the most likely cause.

Do you have a progressive loader? Do you have a light rigged up and LOOK AT
every single charge before you put a boolit on it?

If not - double charge is far more likely.

Bill

[Huntducks]

IMO The case did not chamber all the way just a tiney gap 1/32 or less and there is no support at the base of the case this has happened to me before with a 30 carbine and a 22 Hi Standard HD military.

[BD]

The shape of the "tear" tells the tale. Over pressure event in a fully chambered case in a standard 1911 barrel. Could have been a double charge, or a severe bullet set back on chambering. Different causes, but the same over pressure event. It's really very rare for a stock 1911 to fire out of battery as the slide stop blocks the hammer fall until the slide is all the way forward. You can actually prevent a 1911 from firing by by pushing back on the muzzle. 1/64" off set slide/barrel is enough. They all have at least that much slop.
BD

[geargnasher]

The shape of the "tear" tells the tale. Over pressure event in a fully chambered case in a standard 1911 barrel. Could have been a double charge, or a severe bullet set back on chambering. Different causes, but the same over pressure event. It's really very rare for a stock 1911 to fire out of battery as the slide stop blocks the hammer fall until the slide is all the way forward. You can actually prevent a 1911 from firing by by pushing back on the muzzle. 1/64" off set slide/barrel is enough. They all have at least that much slop.
BD

Perzactly.

Interestingly, I introduced the concept of disabling a 1911 in martial arts class when some of us were studying disarming techniques. Just about any semi-auto pistol with a long enough slide can be grabbed around the slide and shoved back. Most perps won't be smart enough to pull it back into battery fast enough before you push the muzzle to the side and (having them held hard by their strong-side arm) a variety of disabling blows can be administered, all of which tend to slacken the perp's grip strength. This of course is even more dangerous if anyone is standing behind you and to the side, and isn't for people with a whole lot of other training.

Gear

[r1kk1]

I have a rule: no closer than 3 feet for intruders. My wife and travel quite a bit for work. We use a lot of different tactics to increase our survival chances. Distance is a good thing.

Take care

r1kk1

[MtGun44]

3 ft is WAY too close. Test has shown that a man with a knife can cover 21 ft before
most people can stop them - reaction, shot, time to stop, etc. He is shot and maybe
dead, but you have a knife sticking out of your chest.

Bill

[BD]

"Slide stop" was a miss type. I meant firing pin stop. In addition to the safety provided by the disconnector, if the slide of a 1911 is even just slightly out of battery the bottom edge of the FP stop will keep the hammer back even if the sear has released it. My father taught me this when I was about twelve. He told me he'd learned it in Navy MP training during WWII.

[MtGun44]

Double charge, 95%. Boolit push in, 5%. I have done one, and seen about 8 others,
all double charges. Occasionally, the next round in the mag detonates, and this
bulges the slide under the ejection port outwards about 1/8", and REALLY blows
the grips to pieces. The blown case just cracks them and bulges the mag, and
blows the floorplate off most of the time.

Bill

[garym1a2]

bullseye?

[hotwheelz]

Well Ill put this out there maybe totaly diff. situation but it happened to me..

I had been using a dillon 550b for 5-6yrs, when you dont fully seat a primer on the 550 the shell plate will not index to the next stage, but thats not the case on the 650 i had just gotten. You can leave a primer way out on the 650 see picture below.. The best i can tell is that the primer went off before going into battery because it was way out there. I say this is my best guess becouse all the rounds were loaded on that 650 with a powder check die in place. When the round went off it blew the rest of the rounds and the floor plate of the mag right out grips were ok but rung my hands and scared the **** out of me. I was ok and no other damage to the gun but lesson learned I check all my rounds now whether on the 550 or 650. These 2 cases sit right next to my press as reminder.


http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6567/650learningcurve.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/650learningcurve.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[7of7]

Hotwheelz, that is good information to know about the 650..
also, if one puts all their ammo into ammo boxes, (not bulk boxes) the high primer will be very noticeable..

[Krfresno]

Thank you all for sharing your thought and experiences. I have reloaded for years and have been fortunate to have very few mishaps. One of the grat benefits of forums like this is to gain experience from other good and bad experiences. Keep up the good posts.

[izzyjoe]

Well Ill put this out there maybe totaly diff. situation but it happened to me..

I had been using a dillon 550b for 5-6yrs, when you dont fully seat a primer on the 550 the shell plate will not index to the next stage, but thats not the case on the 650 i had just gotten. You can leave a primer way out on the 650 see picture below.. The best i can tell is that the primer went off before going into battery because it was way out there. I say this is my best guess becouse all the rounds were loaded on that 650 with a powder check die in place. When the round went off it blew the rest of the rounds and the floor plate of the mag right out grips were ok but rung my hands and scared the **** out of me. I was ok and no other damage to the gun but lesson learned I check all my rounds now whether on the 550 or 650. These 2 cases sit right next to my press as reminder.


http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6567/650learningcurve.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/650learningcurve.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Goodness i'm glad you were ok.