What dies for my new 30/30?

[crabo]

I did a deal where I got a like new 336 in 30/30. I had a Noe mold for it, so I needed a gun. What are the best dies for boolits in the 30/30? Two or three die set?

Are the RCBS Cowboy dies worth the extra expense?

Thanks,

[Four Fingers of Death]

I use a 310 tool and at times, a set of plain old RCBS dies. Not that I am all that fond of RCBS, but I picked them up used on a trade.

I have never used the cowboy die sets,but a lot of folk here wax lyrical about them. They are apparently spot on for use with cast boolits.

No doubt others with experience with them will chime in.

[Nobade]

Yes, I have a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies and really like them. It's a 3 die set, first full length sizes but not as tight as regular dies. Second is like a M die and opens and flares the mouth, third seats. For boolits they are really nice, and you don't have to buy an additional M die. And they're case hardened with brass lock rings so they look cool.

[largom]

My first choice for any rifle die [at a modest price] is Hornady. The reason for this is their seating die which use's a sliding sleeve to center the case and boolit for straighter loading.

Larry

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i got my first set of redding dies a few weeks ago they make the rest of my dies
look like junk. but these are for a 223 my 30/30 dies are RCBS they work ok
but i will upgrade as i can

[Ed in North Texas]

My general rule for any cartridge which will not be used in competition (which is all of them since I had a hip replaced - hard to do positions/get into them quickly now) is any full length die set with a Lyman M die (and a Neck Size die added where the rifle action allows). My oldest die sets are Lyman All American Deluxe (3 die) sets bought in the '60s, and along the way I've added RCBS, Hornady, Redding, Lee and C-H 4D sets. Except for neck expand dies, I'm an equal opportunity die buyer (but since retiring I tend to go to Lee more often if I have to buy new).

Just my quirky answer.

Ed

[1Shirt]

Will probably get flamed for this, but I have had good luck with the cheapest of Lee dies. As to 30-30, I am still using a set of Herters dies that I bought in the
60's and my M94 likes the loads. There are some decent buys on dies on E-Bay.
I have after all is said and done however prefered Redding dies.
1Shirt!

[Olevern]

My first choice for any rifle die [at a modest price] is Hornady. The reason for this is their seating die which use's a sliding sleeve to center the case and boolit for straighter loading.

Larry

+1 on the Hornady, and for exactly the same reason.

[crabo]

The barrel is a MicroGroove. What are most of you guys sizing to?

[jh45gun]

The Lee dies work fine for my 30/30 and I like the FCD. For what it is worth the worst set of dies I ever had was Hornady they were in 45/70 and I could not keep a decapping pin in them kept on breaking finally I took it back to the store said you deal with it and give me some Lee Dies and never looked back. I have Lee and RCBS dies and both work fine.

[Maven]

crabo, I used to own a #336 Microgroove .30-30 and discovered that it shot CB's sized to .310" better than those sized to .311". I also used Hornady New Dimension dies to partially FL size the brass with no difficulties at all (sizing or loading the rounds into the rifle).

[mortre]

I only have one set of lee dies, and I have been singularly unimpressed. It's a 9mm die, and has no way to lock in any of the settings. So I have to reset the case belling die and seating die every time I use it. Not a big deal I guess, but I like being able to just set the crimp/seating/belling and forget it. I use a single stage press though, a progressive with a "plate" and my opinion might be different.

Also, every time I reset the seating stem there is what looks like aluminum shavings...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

[1Shirt]

My 94 Win 30-30 will shoot some boolits best at .310, and others better at .311.
Suggest trial and error. If you call Hornady, bet you would find that they would make good on any of their dies. The company is excellent, customer service is excellent, and Steve Hornady, is one fine gentleman!
1Shirt!

[Omnivore]

I like to use two seat/crimp dies for the 30-30-- one for seating only and one for crimping only. The M die or something like it is a must for cast bullets in the 30-30 also.

[smoked turkey]

No doubt Hornady makes some wonderful reloading equipment. I have their big Projector progressive and think they are on the cutting edge of ammo development with products like SuperPerformance ammo, LeveRevolution (or however it is spelled) bullets, and their Dangerous Game line of ammo. However I have found their dies with the sliding sleeve get gummed up with lube. I guess my slightly oversized boolits and my Alox lube get the system gummed up and not knowing how to deal with this situation and cast boolits, I shy away from the sliding sleeve concept and have found that RCBS always works and works better for me.

[Firebricker]

I've use an old set of Lyman dies made in the 60s then picked up a 310 M die with a 7/8-14 adapter. I also picked up a Lee FCD but all I use is 311041 and the Lyman seater puts on a perfect a roll crimp.

But if I was going out to buy a set it would be the RCBS cowboy set. At under $60 it's really not much more than a regular set of rifle dies if you factor in the third die. Plus if you wind up sizing a little over the cowboy set will probably more forgiving.

I load for a 94 Winchester but we were shooting my reloads out of a friends 336 and couldn't believe how well it shot them. If micro-groove don't like cast boolits that rifle didn't get the notice LOL And these were sized at .309 with BL-c 2 FB

[Four Fingers of Death]

I only have one set of lee dies, and I have been singularly unimpressed. It's a 9mm die, and has no way to lock in any of the settings. So I have to reset the case belling die and seating die every time I use it. Not a big deal I guess, but I like being able to just set the crimp/seating/belling and forget it. I use a single stage press though, a progressive with a "plate" and my opinion might be different.

Also, every time I reset the seating stem there is what looks like aluminum shavings...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
The Lee lock rings are designed to fit on the head of a progressive press where space is limited. When I remove the die, I grasp the lockout until I break the torque (I also grab it here when screwing the die into the press). Once through lock nut is free of the press, I then take the die body in my fingers and unscrew it. Doing it this way, I don't disturb the setting. HaHa, it took me a while to figure this out. If you only use a single stage press you can swap out the lockrings, they are pretty cheap. I like the split ones that clamp on the thread. I think they are Hornadys.

The shaving is most likely lead. I used to get this when I used a tight crimp. You can avoid this by crimping in a separate operation.

[singleshot]

For cost and ease of use reasons, I went with a Lee die set and Lyman expander. The Lee set works fine for J-words and the Lyman expander allows me freedom with boolits. Has worked well for everything I've used it for. I bought this before I saw the whole discussion about RCBS Cowboy dies, but may not have been able to part with the extra cabbage anyway.

[jimkim]

I size to the largest diameter that will reliably chamber. I use either Lee 30-30 dies with a 7.7mm Jap expander pin or some older Pacific Durachrome dies.

[mortre]

The Lee lock rings are designed to fit on the head of a progressive press where space is limited. When I remove the die, I grasp the lockout until I break the torque (I also grab it here when screwing the die into the press). Once through lock nut is free of the press, I then take the die body in my fingers and unscrew it. Doing it this way, I don't disturb the setting. HaHa, it took me a while to figure this out. If you only use a single stage press you can swap out the lockrings, they are pretty cheap. I like the split ones that clamp on the thread. I think they are Hornadys.

The shaving is most likely lead. I used to get this when I used a tight crimp. You can avoid this by crimping in a separate operation.

I figured they were designed with progressives in mind. And I have never loaded lead/cast in 9mm, only plated. So it can't be lead, sure doesn't look like copper either.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

[largom]

The barrel is a MicroGroove. What are most of you guys sizing to?

For my micro-groove I size to .311 BUT you would have to see if that size would chamber in YOUR gun.

Larry

[TXGunNut]

Yes, I have a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies and really like them. It's a 3 die set, first full length sizes but not as tight as regular dies. Second is like a M die and opens and flares the mouth, third seats. For boolits they are really nice, and you don't have to buy an additional M die. And they're case hardened with brass lock rings so they look cool.

+1 Not a huge fan of RCBS dies but for boolits I think the cowboy dies are worth a look, I even bought the 30-30 insert to use the "M-die" from my 32 set when loading thutty-thutty's. May be my imagination but I think RCBS is gaining on my favorite Redding dies. Next set of dies for boolits will be RCBS Cowboy dies, if available.

[popper]

Hornady for jacketed and (ugh) Lee for cast. Lee rifle set not so well. I decap with the NS die and reworked the FL to size down. 31R(.303 brit) M die to expand. FCD to crimp. .310 isn't so good in my MG 336, .311 works fine.

[geargnasher]

.30-30 has very thin necks and they tend to split easily if overworked. Most standard dies really oversize the necks for cast boolits, especially if you're using .310" or .311" boolits that the MG Marlins seem to like so much.

Keep in mind that all the dies with the sliding sleeves are made for jacketed bullets and the tolerances are very tight, you will have to enlarge the neck part of the sleeve and the part that supports the boolit during seating if you intend to use anything larger than .308" projectiles.

Many leverguns have excessive headspace, so you have to be careful about shoving the shoulder back too far when resizing the brass, or again you'll overwork the brass and wear it out prematurely.

You have quite a few options, but the goal should be to use a FL die that doesn't oversize the brass anywhere (body or neck) and will just barely "bump" the shoulder back a thousandth or so each reloading so they chamber flawlessly. Unfortuntely, I don't think an off-the-shelf die set exists that will work well without modification except for possibly the RCBS Cowboy set, which is probably your best bet.

To save yourself some trouble and having to trim the brass every other reloading or so to maintain perfect crimps, you might consider the Lee factory crimp die, it really works well for the leverguns and case length is much less important.

Here's what I did and I can't think of a better method unless you have a custom sleeve-type seater made and use a Forster or Redding size die with the shoulder bump sleeve and the selectable neck bushings. Getting set up for that will require some honing and a couple hundred bucks.

My advice would be to buy the RCBS Cowboy set and hone out the neck part and the base part near the case head if necessary to fit your chamber with minimal working of the brass. You can back the die off the shellholder a bit to adjust exactly how much it bumps the shoulder of brass fired in your particular gun.

By the way, my old MG 336 put the first three Ranch Dog 311-165s into 7/16" at 100 yards from bags last Saturday using a 4x scope, I kid you not. I'll PM the load if you want.

Gear

[crabo]

Gear, send me your load and thanks to everyone for all the info. I had decided to buy the cowboy dies. On my 45/70 I use an RCBS three die set, non cowboy, and they work fantastic, but that is basically an overgrown pistol case.

[HangFireW8]

Crabo,

How did those Cowboy dies work out? I am asking because a Cowboy Sizer is on its way to me right now, got it cheap on closeout. I wonder how much they size (over-size?) the neck, measured without the sizer ball installed.

I'd like to add one thing to Gear's very good post, the Redding "S" sizer die, usually available in Full Length, is another die that does not need modification. Just buy the sizer button corresponding to your desired neck O.D. plus .001", set the die to just bump the shoulder, and you have a perfect cast boolit sizer die.

I've gotten to the point I just buy Redding "S" dies for cast or cast+jacketed cartridges, and Redding Competition for jacketed-only. Oh, I'll keep a FL die around for smashing down range pick-up brass into shape, but after that, don't use it as they stress the necks too much.

HF

[FergusonTO35]

I use the Lee 3 die set. I crimp with the Lee FCD and size my gas check boolits to .310. Both of my Marlins love 'em.

[Doc65]

Well, for the 30-30 I have recently picked up a set of Lyman dies, no particular reason other than price & the fact that the shell holder was included(didn't have that size previously), locally they were $28.99 whereas everything else was 33-35 or more, again, without the shell holder. I could have gotten a couple different sets used, but they were in the $20 range, plus 60-80 mile round trips. Since I didn't need to make the trip for anything else I decided that was "False Economy" $12-$15 dollars in gas plus the time to drive there...

Just my own personal story...

Oh, I am bumping the case mouth with a M die to make it easier to start boolit.

[crabo]

Crabo,

How did those Cowboy dies work out? I am asking because a Cowboy Sizer is on its way to me right now, got it cheap on closeout. I wonder how much they size (over-size?) the neck, measured without the sizer ball installed.

HF

That gun is next on my list. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[bob208]

i have rcbs lyman ch redding herters old pacific even an old set marked wells. they all do the job.

[williamwaco]

I vote for RCBS.

The cowboy dies are excellent.

Just as good is the regular dies with the addition of the Lyman M die

[HangFireW8]

That gun is next on my list. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

No problem, I'm in the same position...

[Four Fingers of Death]

I vote for RCBS.

The cowboy dies are excellent.

Just as good is the regular dies with the addition of the Lyman M die

I traded off a set of 45 Colt dies as I think I have a spare downstairs. I wasn't worried it I haven't as I have been fancying a set of the cowboy dies and needed an excuse anyway, haha! They would have to be the best choice for a cast boolit shooter.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I vote for RCBS.

The cowboy dies are excellent.

Just as good is the regular dies with the addition of the Lyman M die

I traded off a set of 45 Colt dies as I think I have a spare downstairs. I wasn't worried it I haven't as I have been fancying a set of the cowboy dies and needed an excuse anyway, haha! They would have to be the best choice for a cast boolit rifle shooter.

[Olevern]

My first choice for any rifle die [at a modest price] is Hornady. The reason for this is their seating die which use's a sliding sleeve to center the case and boolit for straighter loading.

Larry

Yeah, what he said!

[MtGun44]

Another Hornady die fan. They make straighter and more accurate ammo IME, but the
cast boolit issue CAN raise it's head with significantly oversized boolits.

Bill

[helice]

If you have a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 308 (7.62X51) you can use it to crimp the 30-30 (7.62X51R). I have an old Herter 2 die set like 1shirt that I picked up back in Dakota years ago. The Lee FCD makes it a 3 die set:-D.

[OverMax]

For a 30-30. So long as there's no rust in the die bores the de-caping stem & pin are straight and no ones has tried to pry out a stuck cartridge case. With a little tweaking here and there any manufactures set of dies will do. New or used. Reddings are the top of the line. Lee's are on the other end of the spectrum. Before buying a used set. Consider buying a new set of Lee's instead. Probably pay near the same price for either. "Why buy used when new is better."

[SgtDog0311]

I don't believe it rings true for ever caliber but I know I played havoc with the 375 until I bought a Cowboy die-set. The barrel was just not big enough to accomodate the larger cast bullet. Bullet kept being seated deeper at crimp and it confounded more than just me till I took the die out, turned it on it's head and tried to drop a bullet though. The tapered barrel was seating deeper even without the seating stem in. I suppose you could hone out any die to deal with that. I have other calibers that provide enough room for the larger cast bullet but not my .379 cast. On my 32-20 Lee set I didn't have that problem but that bore is being relined so after being slugged I may find a repeat offender.

[Kansas Ed]

I have a penchant for the Redding dies...but as much as I hate to admit it, because I've had issues with some other Hornady products...the Hornady dies sure are sweet. I do prefer Redding, but Hornady is showing a very close second.

Ed

[HangFireW8]

Since last posting, I am still waiting for my Cowboy sizer from MidSouth, so I loaded my first 100 using a new Lyman set. Here's what I found.

Without the expander ball the Lyman FL sizer is absolutely concentric. With the exander installed and centered and all case neck insides lubed with motor mica or case lube, necks come out .004-.006 eccentric.

Using the Lyman M .310 expander to expand and slightly bell perfect cases, they came out .005-.006 eccentric. I tried to index the case eccentricity to the M die but found they would not correct but only added more or broke even.

Setting the M die to expand but not bell I found it only added .001 to .003 the majority of the time. (A few cases could be sized straight but could not be expanded straight.)

Expanded but not belled cases would not accept a .310 boolit until I used the VLD reamer (all cases were trimmed and 45 deg chamfered already).

In the end I came to the same conclusions I have had with every other cartridge- standard FL dies size necks too much for good case life, expanders are evil and I need either a lapped or bushing die. I will either have the Lyman or RCBS (once it arrives) lapped or buy a Redding "S" FL die with bushings. I already have the 30 bushings.

I loaded ladders of 31 to 34 gr 748 for Lee 150 FP and 311041. They were sized to .310 and .309 but the 041's were 2.5 y.o. and grew to almost .310. Shot a few at 25 Y and all came in from .8 to 1 inch on a cold windy day with a shaky hold. I need to try these at 100. Barrel of 94AE was fine (using Jav 50/50). Object is hunting loads around 2100 fps. So far it looks promising.

HF

[Four Fingers of Death]

It is nice to wring out as much accuracy as you can, but for deer hunting loads maybe you are sweating it too much.

[TXGunNut]

It is nice to wring out as much accuracy as you can, but for deer hunting loads maybe you are sweating it too much.


Been guilty of that (to a much lesser extent) myself. Keeps things interesting. Hoping to spend some quality time with my RCBS cowboy dies again soon. Ordered a 30-30 expander to go in the 32 WS die set I ordered awhile back but forgot about it. :roll: Ordered a custom Lyman die & expander from BACO so will be ready to do some experimenting when that new NOE mould shows up. Really like those cowboy dies but no sense in buying a whole set if you have a good two die set. Really like the way they worked for my .32 WS, .30-30 project coming up very soon!

[MT Chambers]

Redding dies are always my first choice, esp. the bushing dies, where you can dictate case neck tension without an expander ball stretching your cases. These dies are tops in quality, you will see that the first time you use them.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My first two sets of 7/8" x 14 dies were Reddings, 222 and 308, bought them at the same time. No matter how I lubed the cases, they always required lots of force when raising the ram as the expander went back though the neck. This was using an RCBS Rockchucker which I bought at the same time. After that, I bought other brands. I recently bought a set of Reddings for the K31 as I have been told they are the only ones that match the chamber of that rifle exactly. I wonder of this new FLS die is going to screech softly and require a lot of force like the old ones? I haven't used the 308 dies for a long while, I bought a set of Lees and their expander is much smoother. I must dig the Reddings out and do a comparo. I have 100 new Lapua cases and a 308W Remington 700SPS Tactical the I am running in, that would be a good vehicle for it.

Externally the Reddings are well finished and have a real 'feel good factor', but unless you are using the competition die sets, I don't think there is much in it.

[MGySgt]

. I guess my slightly oversized boolits and my Alox lube get the system gummed up and not knowing how to deal with this situation and cast boolits, I shy away from the sliding sleeve concept and have found that RCBS always works and works better for me.

All my seater dies get gummed up with lube over time. To clean them properly you have to take the seater plug out and then readjust the die after cleaning. With the hornady dies you take the 'C' type ring off the bottom - clean the seater plug and sliding chamber and put back together - no change of die setup.

Works for me!

[SgtDog0311]

Redding dies are always my first choice, esp. the bushing dies, where you can dictate case neck tension without an expander ball stretching your cases. These dies are tops in quality, you will see that the first time you use them.

I need to have a look at a Redding bushing die, 'dictating neck tension without the expander ball' sounds good but having trouble conjuring up how that gets accomplished.

[rockrat]

When using Lee dies, I wrap some plumbers teflon tape around the die where the lockring is. Keeps it in place. I also use the lock ring upside down , so the flat portion bears against the press.

I prefer Redding dies, but have a set of Cowboy dies for my 38-55 and love those.

[MGySgt]

Lee dies - I have extra lock rings from various dies that are duplicate or I bought a set used of steel dies for a seater/crimp die and I kept the lock rings and threw away the die bodies.

I normally do not buy Lee dies. Just me.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I didn't like the lock rings on Lee dies, but like most Lee products, find that with a bit of grey matter usage and a different approach, they work fine. The trick is to just hold the lock ring as well as the die body for the last couple of turns when tightening and to grip it the same way when loosening. When loosening the die, as soon as you feel it break contact with the press, you can spin the die out quickly by gripping the die body.

They are good for cluttered progressive press tops as they don't take up much room and once handled properly, fine for single stage usage as well.

For single stage press usage, any lock ring works fine and I wouldn't go out of my way to get any sort, but don't bother swapping the Lee lock rings out either (I did for awhile, until the penny dropped).

You have to think outside the square with Lee products, but you generally still have bucks in your pocket after buying them.

[TXGunNut]

My first two sets of 7/8" x 14 dies were Reddings, 222 and 308, bought them at the same time. No matter how I lubed the cases, they always required lots of force when raising the ram as the expander went back though the neck....

If I have a choice I'll buy Reddings but as mentioned above I've been pretty happy with RCBS lately as well. On both Redding and RCBS dies I've learned to put a little polishing paste on my buffing wheel and take the expander ball for a quick trip across it. Every now and then I use the "One Shot" gun cleaner on it as well, leaves a thin coat of lube when it dries.

[HangFireW8]

It is nice to wring out as much accuracy as you can, but for deer hunting loads maybe you are sweating it too much.

I hear you, but don't worry, I'm not sweating them all down to less than .001" concentricity. Primarily I just wanted to know how the die performed. I am really more concerned with case life vis a vis sizing stress.

I have a plan, though, with all this sorting and measuring.

I saved the best and the worst cases for last (about 15 of each), and am loading everything in the remaining 70 .001-.003" group to develop a couple of good, accurate loads (as in < 2MOA) for the two boolit types. When I'm done I'll try the best loads in my best and worst cases.

If the gun doesn't care, then I won't.

HF

[6pt-sika]

Back when I first started I got a set of the CHEAP Lee dies . Used them about 5 years and tossed them . After that I got a set of Lyman dies and ordered an M die as well . Later I bought a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies .

I used the RCBS Cowboy dies in a number of cartridges .

30-30 , 38-40 , 44-40 , 40-65 , 32 Special and 38-55 .

Worked fine for me in them all .