Round ball in 38 Special?

[PB234]

Considering loading light loads for 38 Special along the lines of a round ball, Unique, lube over the top of the ball seated flush with the case. A replacement for the 75 grain wadcutters I use in front of 4.5 grains Unique. I am thinking about 4 grains Unique for a ball. Just a fun load for putting holes in paper. Needs to be accurate at about 15 to 20 yards.

Sound reasonable and if so what alloy and size ball (.360?) do you suggest?

Thanks in advance.

[shotman]

hard to keep ball at same level I have used trail boss it is big and can set ball tight

[1Shirt]

Have shot many RB 38S loads, both single and double ball loads over 3 gr. of Bullseys. .360 Rb run thru a 358 sizer and coated with Lee mule snot works very well, and have found them accurate to 25 yds. Never tried them beyond that range.
1Shirt!

[Rocky Raab]

Just what 1Shirt suggested: LLA, 3.0 B'Eye (or any other fast powder), seat to the ball's equator, and crimp lightly.

Those other powder choices include Clays, RedDot, AA2, 700X, Nitro 100, Solo1000, Alcan 120...

[fishbones]

How about 2.8 grains of tight group?

[Rocky Raab]

Yup, add TiteGroup to my list above.

[PB234]

Not Unique or 231?

[Multigunner]

I always seated the ball either flush with or below the case mouth and put lube around the ball up to the level of the case mouth. I used no crimp, but the balls I used were .375 ball intended for the .36 C&B revolver that I drove through a 23/64 hole drilled in a thick steel plate to size to .359. This left a band with more area to engage the rifling.
I seated this far back to reduce powder space for more complete/consistent ignition since I was using very light charges. Velocity with the light charge was about the same as from a wrist rocket sling shot.

[Rocky Raab]

PB234, with that light a bullet, Unique and W231 would be a bit too slow, IMO. You'd be far below their pressure window. If you were loading a two-ball round they'd be fine, but so would the ultra-fast ones. Two round balls in .38 weigh about the same as a normal target wadcutter, although they take up more case volume.

[PB234]

Last week I was shooting a 75 Grain wadcutter over 3.5 grains of Unique. Seemed to work fine. My thinking is that a round ball could do the same thing cheaper. Have 231 and Unique on the shelf and resisting inventorying another powder if possible. Thinking about 3 grains of Unique with the ball seated flush to reduce case capacity with lube over the ball or the ball lubed with Lee Alox. Probably use a .360 lead ball sized to .358 and hope leading doesn't become problematic.

[Rocky Raab]

Well, it will work, but Unique will burn very poorly (dirty) in that load. So will 231. Weight isn't the only issue at work here; a round ball has next to no bearing surface, so bore friction is about zero. Unique can't burn fast enough to overcome the instantaneous increase in "combustion chamber" volume.

[PB234]

Rocky, What you say makes sense. I'll get some Bullseye. Thanks

[Rocky Raab]

Frankly, I'd get TiteGroup. It's simply a much newer (by a CENTURY) powder with all the improvements powder chemists have been able to introduce over the years. I'm cleaning closet of a lot of my guns and almost all my powders; Bullseye is one that's going. TiteGroup will stay.

[nanuk]

is there really any reason to size a ball from .360 to .358? I mean, if it will fit in the case with some friction, all the better, right?

[PB234]

Nanuk, I have been wondering that myself. Have not yet bought the .358 Lee sizer and prefer not to buy another piece of equipment. Goal is to produce a cheap to shoot almost recoil free accurate short range load for use in an old S&W 38 Special.

Considering seating the ball level with the case mouth over 3 grains Unique (do not want to inventory another powder) and applying a mild taper crimp (I find a crimp helps Unique burn more fully) and then some lube if I do not Alox lube them.

The round balls will be lead and also wondering if the .360 diameter will get the Unique to burn a little fuller than if they were sized down to .358. The other side is wondering if the .360 will spike pressure too much. Comments and suggestions are gratefully received.

[PB234]

Nanuk, I have been wondering that myself. Have not yet bought the .358 Lee sizer and prefer not to buy another piece of equipment. Goal is to produce a cheap to shoot almost recoil free accurate short range load for use in an old S&W 38 Special.

Considering seating the ball level with the case mouth over 3 grains Unique (do not want to inventory another powder) and applying a mild taper crimp (I find a crimp helps Unique burn more fully) and then some lube if I do not Alox lube them.

The round balls will be lead and also wondering if the .360 diameter will get the Unique to burn a little fuller than if they were sized down to .358. The other side is wondering if the .360 will spike pressure too much. Comments and suggestions are gratefully received.

[45-70.gov]

i have loaded OO buck....like a patch and ball
t-shirt patch......no powder just primer.....''safer fast draw play [grow up]

been meaning to try a little powder and see what kind of accuracy in the handi rifle

in the 44....i recently got a 440 mold

they required sizing where the 433 didnt
the main problem with sizing is aligning the ''equator''
sizing needs to be avoited....but the 440 gives better rifleing contact

multi balls are fun to play with
i think i might just try 3 OOO in my 357 max today after reading this thread

[PB234]

the main problem with sizing is aligning the ''equator''
yes that occurred to me and would really slow down loading up a few hundred rounds

multi balls are fun to play with
i think i might just try 3 OOO in my 357 max today after reading this thread

I have been thinking of a couple round balls in a 357 just for fun. Probably also first try out my 38 Special loads in a 357 to enjoy the extra margin of safety at first.

"[grow up]" is exactly what I am trying to avoid : ) . Maybe try a wax or glue bullet in your fast draw efforts? Wax bullet + primer only + heavy boots might = 10 toes into the future.

[mac60]

I've been using 2 .360 rb from a Lee 2 cav. mold over 2.7 gr. Red dot with good results. It's no problem keeping them within 4-5" at 15 yds. through my mod. 10. I haven't tried any with 1 rb. and since I didn't have anything to do I loaded three cases with 3 gr. unique and 1 .360 rb. (unsized, lubed with LLA). I didn't get too fancy with it - just seated them right above the "equator" and gave 'em a crimp.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_16526503a9090f152b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6434)
I shot them through my old mod. 10
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_16526503a9090921c4.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6433)
I noticed that the primers backed out a little making the cylinder hard to rotate. All three fired with very little noise and no recoil to speak of. The cases ejected easily but were left a little sooty with a very small amount of unburned powder in the barrel near the forcing cone.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_16526503a909143bb2.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6435)
Like Rocky said - I think a faster powder would work better. Is this a safe load? Well, I guess you could say that. Is this an accurate load? I don't think so - I was shooting at a soda can at about 20 ft. and managed to hit it 2 out of 3.

[PB234]

Mac60, thanks for the information.

[mac60]

PB - I just noticed, in your original post you said 4 gr. and I only loaded 3. My bad. That extra grain may make a difference. Just tryin' to help. If I were to load a bunch up I'd use a faster powder (I have a 4 lb. jug of Red dot). You should try a few w/4 gr.

[MasS&W]

If you don't mind a little extra cleaning, I've had good results with pyrodex. Doesn't mind being compressed, and you can load it light as hell.

[Kermit1945]

Pyrodex. Yuk. Gave all mine away to people I don't like.

[PB234]

Tried out 4 grains Unique and .360 round ball with a crimp. It was worth a try and I'll go back to light wadcutters for a recoil free load. Still have a bunch of round balls so maybe I'll try some 2 ball loads in .357 and see how that works.

[Michael J. Spangler]

bump for the almost one year mark of the last post

loaded some round balls today.
the double balls over 3.5 grains of bullseye shot well at 10 yards.
single balls over 2 grains of bullseye did not shoot well. third ball stuck in the barrel. i think a 75 grain wadcutter would work out better for a mouse fart quiet load given the bearing surface and the ability to crimp.

so i loaded some more single balls over 3.5 bullseye and almost 100 of the double ball over 3.5 bullseye

when i loaded i found it easier to deal with 2 balls by pressing the first down with my finger till it was flush with the cash mouth, then holding the second on top while i slowly raised the ram, guiding it into the die.

that worked well but then i had an epiphany. i prepped up a bunch of balls by putting a pinch of carnuba red on the sprue spot, and sticking another ball right to it. then i could just drop the double ball on top of the flared charged case and run it into the die.

worked beautifully!

these loads did lead a tiny bit in the end of the chamber, lets see if the dab of carnuba helps that or not. if not i'll switch to 357 brass to save the hassle. the cylinder throats were clean, and the forcing cone and barrel were clean too.

[Boolseye]

My .38 spl. load w/ 2 round balls (000 buck, weight about 70 grains each, .360") is 3.3 grains of BE, seated with the top ball protruding above the case mouth. Can be a little finicky to load, but you get the hang of it and they shoot great, about 850 fps. I tumble lube the balls in 45-45-10

[Michael J. Spangler]

what are you guys running for bullseye with 3 RBs in a 357?
3 grains maybe?

[Hamish]

Post 26: " 3.3 grains of BE" (BE means Bullseye)

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thank you. I was asking about 3 round balls though.