Load development

[aarolar]

Made some good progress this afternoon, was having some minor leading issues but turned out my lee sizer was sizing at .3578 I opened it up to .3582 and it pretty much eliminated all my leading issues. I was amazed how much difference just alittle difference in powder charge can make. All shooting is at 20yds using mixed 38 brass and a lee 358-158 and ISO lead (96/3/1) off a bench.

First target is 4.1 grns of unique and I was very unhappy with the groups but I was ecstatic about the lack of lead. The bore was hazy but one pass with a brush and a patch and it was clean as a whistle.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/2012-08-14_17-28-55_557.jpg

Went inside and bumped my charge up to 4.5 grns and tried again, once again no lead but the group was much improved. I am sure the vertical stringing is my fault and no doubt the the flier is. :D

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/2012-08-14_17-29-05_229.jpg

Only thing is it turns my fingers grey, does everyone have this issue shooting cast in revolvers?

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/2012-08-12_19-59-49_402.jpg

[Whiterabbit]

interesting. I get soot, but it is black, and it takes many, many rounds over a couple hours to get dirty and even then, not THAT dirty!

But otherwise yes, when I shoot my BFR my hands get dirty. Maybe it's just from reloading the cylinder though.

[HoosierShooter]

My 19-4 does same with lighter loads of Unique and 2400. Not as bad with fuller loads

[aarolar]

interesting. I get soot, but it is black, and it takes many, many rounds over a couple hours to get dirty and even then, not THAT dirty!

But otherwise yes, when I shoot my BFR my hands get dirty. Maybe it's just from reloading the cylinder though.

That picture is after 50 rds yesterday, still did it today after only 12 but not as badly.

[Whiterabbit]

The more I think about it the more I'm sure it's from loading/unloading, not firing. Also black for me, not gray.

[aarolar]

I have a question about what the max load is for a 15-160grn boolits using unique in a 38 case? I am seeing numbers everywhere from 4.0 all the way up to 5.0.

[Whiterabbit]

I see issues like this all the time when I load something new. Here's what I do:

Load up a few from start to 5.0. Pick whatever spread you want. I'd pick probably 4-6 loads from start to max. If that spread is .2 grains per, great. if that load is 1.0 grains between load, that's fine too.

As I get heavier and heavier, I look for pressure signs. If I see them, I stop. If I don't, I keep going. If there is a clear accuracy winner after I hit 5.0 but is below 5.0, I never load 5.0 again.

I keep notes and know for myself what my limits are, without having to trust anyone.

[aarolar]

I see issues like this all the time when I load something new. Here's what I do:

Load up a few from start to 5.0. Pick whatever spread you want. I'd pick probably 4-6 loads from start to max. If that spread is .2 grains per, great. if that load is 1.0 grains between load, that's fine too.

As I get heavier and heavier, I look for pressure signs. If I see them, I stop. If I don't, I keep going. If there is a clear accuracy winner after I hit 5.0 but is below 5.0, I never load 5.0 again.

I keep notes and know for myself what my limits are, without having to trust anyone.

That's about the same thing I do just a curious question I see people suggesting 5 grains like its the starting load or something.

[John in WI]

I got this response from Sierra Bullets after I loaded up some .38 rounds with 5.2gr Unique. I made them, then I looked at 2 other reloading references that only went to 5.0gr Unique, and also realizing that my boolits were actually 162grains, not 158grains like I thought they were. I was afraid to "test" them and blow up the Smith, so I asked someone far more knowledgeable than I am.

"First of all I don’t see any problems with your 5.2 grains of Unique whether you are using 158 grain bullets or 162-4 grains.
If you see signs of leading that is a good indicator of when to reduce a load to reduce the barrel fouling. High velocities and lead bullets generally mean barrel leading which is not a desirable situation."

Hope that help--5gr should be no problem in terms of pressure/safety. 5.2 grains, for me, didn't shoot worth a darn, but slowing it down a little bit at 5.0gr helped a lot.

[MtGun44]

Do you have your left hand forward on the gun where the gases from the cyl
gap are hitting them? If so, you better be very careful, if close enough and with
hot enough loads, the gas leakage can strip flesh from the bone.

Shot revolvers for many decades, never saw this sort of soot on thumb - gotta
have it up fwd near the bbl-cyl gap.

Bill

[subsonic]

http://yorkpistol.blogspot.com/2008/02/460-xvr-accident.html

[Whiterabbit]

That's about the same thing I do just a curious question I see people suggesting 5 grains like its the starting load or something.

I have a way around that too. On the rare occasions I see a disagreement so drastic one max is lower than another start, I research the powder. Is there a warning against downloading too far? Something like H110 that is "sensitive" to downloading? If not, I start at the very bottom and load to the very top. I'll hit pressure signs or I won't. most often, not.

[aarolar]

Im aware of the deal with the barrel cylinder gap guys and im pretty sure I don't have my thumb that far toward. I shoot full power magnums through this gun using the same grip with no issues. When I get home this afternoon ill look closer and get my wife to take a picture, I just assumed it was normal for a revolver. FWIW the cylinder gets covered in the same grey stuff.

[white eagle]

http://yorkpistol.blogspot.com/2008/02/460-xvr-accident.html

Ouch!!!![smilie=b:

[btroj]

I have never gotten anywhere near that dirty. Not even close. My revolver quickly looks like that but it doesn't get all over my hands.

[subsonic]

That gray stuff sounds like vaporized lead. Maybe try a little harder alloy?

<member of the harder is better club> <let the beatings commence>

[1Shirt]

I get black, but not that much, and I get it from (mostly I think) loading and unloading the revolver, from the front of the cylinder, and from the unloaded ctgs.
1Shirt!

[ebner glocken]

Do you have your left hand forward on the gun where the gases from the cyl
gap are hitting them? If so, you better be very careful, if close enough and with
hot enough loads, the gas leakage can strip flesh from the bone.

Shot revolvers for many decades, never saw this sort of soot on thumb - gotta
have it up fwd near the bbl-cyl gap.

Bill

I've only seen one guy get his hands that dirty. That was exactly what he was doing. I wondered how he got that dirty on his offhand until I watched him dump a cylinder. Fortunatly he never shot anything bigger than a .38. with wadcutters. He was holding that thing with his index finger on one side of the bbl cylinder gap and his thumb on the other. A guy that does that will only shave lead once to correct that habbit.

Ebner

[Jack Stanley]

My powder charging runs along the same lines as White Rabbit does . Once I find a load that is safe , and accurate I recheck for any leading . When I find the load that has zero leading even if I give up a touch of accuracy I start loading by the thousand for it . This way of doing it may run counter to the popular method of accuracy first but I've found for me that usually the load that doesn't lead is the most accurate .

The up side to all that is , I can shoot several hundred rounds and not get hands covered like the photo shows . Some grime is present but I expect that especially when using a lube like GAR 50/50 Alox .

I've used Unigue in several thirty-eight loads and I have run it up to five grains with hundred fifty-eight grain bullets . The guns I'm using the ammo in are chambered for magnums though so I don't fret quite so much . I do try and keep the pressures no more than a plus"P" loading and not get into 38/44 type pressures .

Jack

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, the soot is from low pressure, had the same thing happen with my Smith Model 65. Then I found my "cherry" load for that boolit... 4.2g Unique with ANY primer
.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1504

[aarolar]

Finally got around to taking a picture of my grip to shot that don't have my fingers forward of the barrel-cylinder gap. If it quits raining today I'm going to go shoot today and pay close attention to when exactly when my fingers are getting dirty. I am betting its handling the empty brass.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/2012-08-19_10-41-51_749.jpg