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winchester85
08-12-2012, 10:35 PM
i am 41 years old, been living on my own since i was 16. bought 35 acres when i was 19, built my house when i was 25. i have been self-employed since i was 22. i have done pretty well and am proud of what i have accomplished... on my own.
a friend had a kid (25 at the time) working for him, at first he was living with my friend and his wife, but they needed their house back. at the time, i was taking some time off and could use the money so i said he could rent a room from me.
over the last few years he has rented from me off and on. he is a good kid and means well, but has got to be one of the least ambitious people i have ever met. he has been back at my place now since early june. he was working for me, but i had to let him go. he kept damaging my machines, never worked a full day, his productivity was low and overall he wasnt making me any money. he had quit his last 2 jobs before he was working for me. he said he was just going to collect un-employment. i about blew a gasket. i told him NO ONE would live in my house while collecting ANYTHING from the government. he finally got off his butt and got a job, that so far he has managed to show up on time for, however it has only been 2 weeks. i heard through the grapevine that his attitude (laziness) is not well received at work.
anyway, he has been here for a couple of months and the bathroom he uses has not been cleaned since( i have my own), it is also the bathroom any guest in the house would use. i am NOT a clean freak, but his bathroom was BAD. i had asked him when he had no job to clean his bathroom but he ignored me. yesterday when he woke up at 11:00am, i told him it was time for him to do some housework. an hour later i came back and he was sitting in front of his computer. later that day i looked in the bathroom and found that he had done about the minimum he could. i could see the dirt on the floor from the kitchen 15 feet away.
yesterday i washed all the dishes (including the ones he uses), washed 6 windows inside and out, swept the floor and the stairs, and cleaned the barbecue grill. i have not seen him since, when i ask him to do stuff, or tell him things he doesnt like to hear, he runs and hides. i go outside, he comes in, i come in, he goes out. or he goes to town and stays with a friend for a day or two.
i charge him a minimal amount for rent. i dont require him to do anything extra. i let him store his motorcycle and chainsaw in my garage, his tool boxes and milling machine in my shop, he had 3 trucks and a trailer here for a while, now just 2 trucks. i have a small shooting range in the back of the house that he can use whenever he wants, all the targets in the range were built by me. he shoots my targets, but doesnt even pick up his brass. sometimes his paper targets will be out there for weeks. the stairwell has greasy hand prints on the walls(not mine), his room is a disaster. the floor can hardly be seen, and the carpet has an off-colored trail leading in and out. he has a mug, a cereal bowl, a pitcher, a container of honey, and a couple of water bottles sitting on the counter next to the sink continually. over time his stuff creeps out of his room, first one pair of shoes, then 2 then 3 then 4 then 5, then a few shirts.
when the propane bottle on the grill runs out, he just stops using the grill and uses the range instead. he uses my shop-vac to clean out his truck, but doesnt bother to empty the hopper, even when it has 10 pounds of dirt in it.
he complains about having no money, but when i offer up some work the FIRST thing he asks is "what is the job, how much does it pay". in this economy? really? he had the opportunity to work for me 60 hours a week, with no commute, not physically hard work, and even let him set his own schedule, and i paid a fair wage. within a month he had backed the door of my cab over truck into the log pile (while the door was open), trashed the conveyor belt on the processor, broke 2 hydraulic levers, bent up the taillight housing on my truck, smashed 3 hydraulic hose ends on the log loader, and left the shop unlocked with the door wide open a couple of nights. when i found the door on the truck bent up, he had been missing for 2 days, man was i steamed. when he finally showed back up, he was all cheery and happy. i asked him if there was anything he wanted to tell me. i gave him a few seconds to come clean, and he says kind of hesitantly, "no". i about came unglued. he trashed the door on my truck, didnt tell me, then avoids me for 2 days, and then tries to deny that he did it. he acted just like a small child caught doing something wrong. needless to say that was the end of him touching anything i own.
if i tell him to grow up and clean up his stuff, and do his share of the housework, he hides and pouts. a couple of times he gets in a huff and starts to pack his belongings and choked up tells me he is leaving because he doesnt feel welcome. he tells me that i need to tell him his is doing a good job, and praise him for things, but he damages everything, machines, the floor in the house, hell, i even found a bullet hole in the house where he had shot at a squirrel. what am i supposed to say, "great job kid, the bullet didnt go through to the inside"? previously i convinced him to stay. i do like the kid and he is someone to do things with even if i have to push him to get out of the house. it is also nice to have someone to talk to on occasion. but man i am getting tired of his 12 year old child behavior, i swear he acts less and less mature all the time. i dont have kids, but it sure seems like i am raising one. BUT he is 29 years old!
a few years ago we got done shooting and i hear a shot inside the house, he had just put a 45 round in the floor!

end of rant.

should i just kick him out or continue to try and teach him some character?

WILCO
08-12-2012, 10:39 PM
Life is short. Drama is B.S. Send him on his way.

smokeywolf
08-12-2012, 10:54 PM
Too late to teach him new ways and it's not your job anyway. He's playing you and you're letting him. Don't complicate your life. Tell him its time for him to go out into the big bad world and grow up.
Tell him you'll do him one last favor, help him pack. Be sure he removes all of his belongings from your house and shop or you may end up being held legally responsible for it's security or value.

crabo
08-12-2012, 10:56 PM
He doesn't want to learn. Give him the boot and change the locks on everything. You have become an enabler to him.

Hamish
08-12-2012, 11:00 PM
Send the leech down the road to go join the OWS bunch.

10x
08-12-2012, 11:07 PM
It is time the kid grew up (if 29 is a kid).
Quit "enabling" him and ask he find another place to live.
You have given him an example to follow, he will either figure it out on his own or not.
You have invested time, patience, and money in him (Cheap rent) and he as increased your work load. You owe him nothing, he owes you enough respect to do the simple tasks you ask of him.

It is time the guy moved on...

Bloodman14
08-12-2012, 11:16 PM
+1 to all of the above!

winchester85
08-12-2012, 11:19 PM
i think you guys are right, i am enabling him.
it is unlikely that he will ever grow up.

i have had talks with him about respecting my property and how hard i have worked to get where i am. i think he just thinks i am picking on him.

popper
08-12-2012, 11:32 PM
i have had talks with him about respecting my property and how hard i have worked to get where i am. i think he just thinks i am picking on him. This begins when they are 3 or 5 yrs old. Soccer moms raise soccer mom kids.

captain-03
08-12-2012, 11:33 PM
OUT!! Sooner the better .....

.357MAN
08-12-2012, 11:48 PM
First off, if you come to an internet forum and tell everything bad about someone, what do you expect to hear in response?

Judging from what you've said, the kid should go, but don't be volatile about it though. And I bet this is not the whole story, after all this is stuff accumulated from 4 years, and it's probably not doing him justice.

I may be reading to far into it, but whenever someone has no resolve to work it is because of addictions, may not be bad stuff, but TV and video games, and they have never been active enough to see the fruits of there labor. Older generation don't understand what there fighting when it comes to this behavior, mostly cause they never had the distractions the younger generation have, and I am talking about the consumerism of video entertainment. And video entertainment can be a leach, especially when introduced at a young age. And it's mainly do to the lack of activity, and they get accustomed to that lifestyle, then all they care for is entertainment, and they despise good hard work. I don't know if I am right, but it's what I have observed. And the best thing to cure it is limiting video intake, and get them outside the house more. But he is a grown man so his habits may be to deep now to uproot.

SciFiJim
08-13-2012, 12:41 AM
He's a grown man sponging off of you. Show him the door. Tell him he has three days to get his stuff off of you property or you will set in in the street.


THEN, FOLLOW THROUGH!

Alvarez Kelly
08-13-2012, 12:59 AM
I know I am piling on, but he needs to be on his own. I bet he was a product of the touchy feely educational system, where everyone gets an award for participation. There seems to be a lot of that with folks in their 20s.

Tough love may work. When he is living in his car and hungry, he may appreciate a job a little more.

waksupi
08-13-2012, 02:25 AM
You have been a lot more patient than I am. Tell him to pack up his ****, and get out of your house. No apologies, and no excuses from him. If he was here, I would have had him buried, and fertilizing the garden.
Pay my travel expenses, I'll have his *** out in a day.

Wal'
08-13-2012, 02:33 AM
The sad part is there's a whole generation of them out there.

Don't go anywhere while he moves, or you'll find a lot of yours, gone as well.

You've tried, now time to give it up.

captaint
08-13-2012, 06:59 AM
I agree with the above. By the time we reach 29 years of age, if we don't get it - we're never going to get it. I see this type of thing at work constantly. Some get it, some don't. But take heart. There are still some great (kids) out there. I see some of them too.. I'm convinced it's all about who raised them - in most cases, not all.
Anyway, give him the boot. If you really like the company, find a kid that knows what responsibility is. They're out there. enjoy Mike

Wayne Smith
08-13-2012, 07:59 AM
I have no idea where you are - BUT - you have been charging him rent. Thus he has rights in most every state. You need to give him an eviction notice in writing. In most states you have to give him 30 days, I believe. Then you can kick him out. Anything he leaves on your property becomes yours. Your eviction notice should specify both he and his property must be off your property by such and such a date.

This is general. You need to know the renter laws in your state. Follow them to the letter.

Bret4207
08-13-2012, 08:00 AM
Sounds a lot mike my oldest son. Boot him.

winchester85
08-13-2012, 08:47 AM
i think it was his mother that did such a great disservice for him. it appears that he has never had to take care of himself, and was never held to rules, and always had an excuse that she let him get away with.
it is funny that someone mentioned OWS. though he says he is conservative, all of his actions and statements are very similar to those losers.

WILCO
08-13-2012, 10:42 AM
First off, if you come to an internet forum and tell everything bad about someone, what do you expect to hear in response?

Obviously, Winchester85 is under stress and needs to get it out. Lots of folks dump there "garbage" here when they need to and I believe the membership has given sound advice. Wayne Smith has a point about tenants rights. Maybe consult an attorney for advice on eviction before proceeding.

Bad Water Bill
08-13-2012, 02:13 PM
First off, if you come to an internet forum and tell everything bad about someone, what do you expect to hear in response?.

Since we all refer to this site as our happy home and other folks here as our happy family, why shouldn't he turn to us for some advice.

Wayne Smith
08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
Usually don't need a n attorney. Get on your computer and look up your state's renter rights. Should be right there and clear. Do what is necessary.

flounderman
08-13-2012, 02:45 PM
one thing I didn't see mentioned is the possibility he is using drugs of one form or another. whatever the problem is, you tried to help him, you didn't take him to raise. The users will take everything you will give them until they have used you up, then they will look for someone else to use. I would tell him it is on him if he stays or goes. Give him a list of what you expect from him, clean the place up and keep it clean or if you would sooner find a new place to live, that's fine too. one or the other, your choice.

.357MAN
08-13-2012, 07:34 PM
Obviously, Winchester85 is under stress and needs to get it out. Lots of folks dump there "garbage" here when they need to and I believe the membership has given sound advice. Wayne Smith has a point about tenants rights. Maybe consult an attorney for advice on eviction before proceeding.


Since we all refer to this site as our happy home and other folks here as our happy family, why shouldn't he turn to us for some advice.

You guys are right. I read what I said again and It sounds bad.

I apologies if I offended you Winchester.

winchester85
08-13-2012, 07:43 PM
he is a good kid. just extremely lazy and not motivated. he also does not respond to attempts to motivate him.
he is a religious kid, goes to church every sunday. he does not drink at all, does not smoke, or do drugs of any kind. he means well, but i dont think he is really very sharp, but he thinks he is. he wants a guaranteed result out of anything he does for work. he wont work any way but hourly, and then his productivity is quite low.
every now and then when i tell him to get things done or get his life together, he throws out that he thinks he might be depressed. i have told him in the past if he thinks so, he needs to go deal with it, but he complains that he has no money and no insurance. i mentioned that if his lack of productivity and laziness was in fact caused by depression that if he got it under control he would have the money. but i think he likes to throw that out to get people off his back and use it as a crutch. when he had insurance and money, he didnt do anything about it then.

i know and did know what i need to do. it is helpful to hear from others what they think on the subject. the kid likes to make me out as the bad guy for telling him to get his stuff together. i gave up on trying to "help" him about a month ago. i told him that i had, that it was too much effort and the harder i tried the more he acted like a small child. at this point he is paid through the end of the month. when i see him next he will be told of exactly what is expected and what his options are.
his options are 1. do at least 50% of the housekeeping and do it well without being told or asked.
2. i will hire a cleaning lady to clean his portion and add it on to his rent, which he cant afford. or 3. get out and i will return whatever amount of rent for the rest of the month AFTER i pay someone to clean up his mess.

my guess is that he will either start whining about how i am mean and that i dont praise him enough. then he will in a childish fit start packing his stuff to leave. which at this point is just fine with me. or he will comply for a few weeks and then i will be having a talk with him next month, but the next time is too late. i am tired of dealing with someone with the maturity of a pre-teen. though i am glad to get the extra cash from rent, in the long run i dont think it is worth if for the hassle and wear and tear on my house.

SciFiJim
08-14-2012, 12:31 AM
he is a good kid.

That is probably your biggest problem with him. You still look at him like he is a kid. He may be younger than you are, but at 29 he is no longer a kid. He is a man with no shame, that will continue to sponge off of you as long as you let him. Everything that you have related to us that he has said is the actions of a manipulator who spends more effort getting out of work than the effort required to do the work.

fatelk
08-14-2012, 01:25 AM
Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but but your description sounds a little like myself when I was younger. Not to that degree or to that age, but I can empathize a little bit. It sounds like he never really learned the value of work.

I was in my mid-20s when I had to learn some tough lessons about working hard, and I grew up on a farm working all my life. It was different though, when I was on my own working for someone who wasn't family. I had to show up on time, do a good job, and I couldn't whine or weasel my way out of anything. I decided I liked it, and I did very well. I'll never be a workaholic, but I realized I wasn't really that lazy after all.

Maybe you treat him too much like family, and the best thing would be to boot him so he learns to sink or swim. If he really is a good "kid", maybe he'll wise up, grow up, and make something of himself.


i think it was his mother that did such a great disservice for him. it appears that he has never had to take care of himself, and was never held to rules, and always had an excuse that she let him get away with.
This is so true so often, and sad. People don't realize that by spoiling their kids they are HURTING them. This is why we have so many twenty-something "kids". They haven't had to grow up.

As to laziness; he probably knows full well he is lazy. He probably hates that he's lazy but feels that's just his lot in life, he can't change so the only way to get along is to make excuses and manipulate people. Depression certainly can come from feeling like a loser and thinking you'll be stuck being a loser your whole life, even if you deny it to everyone but yourself.

Maybe he needs someone to look him in the eye and tell him "Listen buddy, you are lazy, but you don't have to be. You need to grow up, get some focus in your life, and decide you CAN make something of yourself. The best way to stop feeling depressed is to get a life and stop feeling like a loser. You can do it and I'd like to help, but I'm not helping you by buying your excuses and enabling you."

Flinchrock
08-14-2012, 09:26 AM
Sounds to me like you're lucky you don't hear "I'm ready" every time he goes to the "potty"

29-30 yrs old? he ain't gonna do anything for himself if others will do it for him...

Wayne Smith
08-14-2012, 10:00 AM
You mentioned that he has a milling machine. Is he a trained machinist? Did he inherit it? Did he, at some point in his life, have it together enough to buy it? This is the one fact that does not fit your picture of him.

John Guedry
08-14-2012, 10:58 AM
Lose this guy asap.

winchester85
08-14-2012, 10:02 PM
his mother inherited a machine shop. so he has learned to run a mill and a lathe. she paid him way more than he was worth, and he lived in a camper in a relatives back yard so he had no rent.
i unloaded the mill with my skid steer when he got here. it literally has not moved an inch since i set it down. it still isnt hooked up (he need a cord end to plug it in).

i have sat him down and had conversations with him about how he TOO could have what i have, that he just has to work hard, learn wherever he can, and not waste his money on stupid things. that the opportunities are there for everyone. i dont think he thinks he is lazy, he believes he is a hard worker. i think all his life someone was blowing smoke up hit butt, telling him how good he was doing even when he wasnt.
i like the extra cash but it really is probably not worth the wear and tear on my house. i live way out of town, work by myself in the woods, dont go to bars anymore, and only go to town about once a week for mail and groceries. it is not uncommon for me to not see or speak to anyone for 4 or 5 days. it is nice to have someone to talk to sometimes.

is it normal to talk to the animals in the woods?:???:

winchester85
08-14-2012, 10:04 PM
i appreciate all the honest replies.

i was starting to think i was just too much of a *******. now i KNOW i am not.

trooperdan
08-14-2012, 10:12 PM
Tell him his local army recruiter is likely hiring!

winchester85
08-14-2012, 11:09 PM
finally saw him and had the chance to speak to him.
told him that i would not ask, nor tell him to do his share of housework anymore. that if it didnt get done, i would take care of it and add it to the rent. he asked "how much is that going to cost?" i told him i was afraid he would ask that question, but that if it get to that point that he wouldnt like the results. minimum 50% of the housework, MINIMUM, it is like paying the rent, it just has to be done.
i had mentioned last friday that i had a tractor trailer load of hay to unload on saturday, and that i need help to do it. he balked at the opportunity to make some money. eventually he asked how much it would pay, like if it wasnt quite a bit that he wasnt interested. so i said no thanks, i will take care of it. myself and 3 other guys unloaded 24,000 pounds of hay from a 53' van trailer starting at 9:30PM on saturday, we finished unloading and stacking in the barn about 11:45.
in our conversation tonight he asked about the hay. i informed him that once again his attitude towards work was not good. that i would unload the entire truck myself before i asked for his help again.

not sure the military would take him. they would probably spit him back out.

waksupi
08-15-2012, 01:15 AM
is it normal to talk to the animals in the woods?:???:

Gosh, I hope so, or I'm in trouble!

fatelk
08-15-2012, 01:16 AM
Sounds like you're probably right about the work thing. I have no idea how to get through to someone like that. I was out of work for 2 years recently (back to school), and anytime I had a chance at a few bucks from an odd job I took it if it would fit in my schedule, even if it paid a fraction of what I had been used to making.

Most of us in the adult world here have no problem helping out a friend, relative, or neighbor now and then for no pay at all. It sounds like he really needs to grow up and learn some hard life lessons. He's getting cheap rent and still expects to be paid to help you throw some hay bales for a couple hours???

bobthenailer
08-15-2012, 08:09 AM
Put on the biggest pair of boots you have and give him a hard one into the next county for good!

Three-Fifty-Seven
08-15-2012, 04:49 PM
thread!

thehouseproduct
08-16-2012, 02:11 PM
Geez, sounds like my step kid in a few years. I see the boulder rolling my way already.