expander die

[wgr]

guestion for you guys. i,m just starting to load black powder rounds. i sized my boolits to .458 fire formed all my brass. now if i just neck size how much do i expand the brass to get a good hold on the brass. i will crimp or taper crimp my hunting rounds. thinks bill:cbpour:

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Without knowing what rifle you are loading for, I use a .460 boolit diameter in my 45/90 and I have a .459 expander. This holds very firm.

CH4D make a universal expander die body and you can purchase custom expanders for a range of sizes. The standard expander that came with my RCBS set was .456 and would shave lead off the projectile when seating.

[wgr]

i,m shooting a c sharp. it shoots a boolit sized to 458

[jh45gun]

Lee makes a universal one and I have had folks tell me the Lyman M die is better .I use the Lee one for my 45/70 then use the lee FCD which is a collet type die crimping. I size my bullets .459 and it works fine. Back to the Lyman M die I have both the Lee and the M die that came with my 45 acp and I belled the 45 acp brass with both and I could not see any difference both work equally well as far as I am concerned. If your not talking about belling the case mouth for seating cast bullets easy then I misunderstood. AS both the M die and the Lee Universal Die are considered expanding dies.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140461/lee-universal-neck-expanding-die

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_LymanMDies.htm

[Kraschenbirn]

Get one from Buckshot. He makes them to your specified diameter and seating depth. I had him run up expander for both my .45-70 and .38-55 and about 90% of boolit seating/neck tension issues went away.

Bill

[Jim2]

For the 45/70 Shiloh sharps, I found the 0.456 expander worked fine for a 0.458 cast bullet. That gives a good grip on the bullet. Combined with my compression, I get a clean burn from my BP loads. In single-shot rifles you may not need a crimp in order to achieve accuracy, although some shooters do use it. Try it both ways, your rifle will tell you which it likes.

Jim

[Longwood]

Get one from Buckshot. He makes them to your specified diameter and seating depth.

Bill

Buy a few and experiment.
If a single shot,,, start with the bigger sizes.

[John Boy]

now if i just neck size how much do i expand the brass to get a good hold on the brass.
There are 2 schools of thought for proper neck tension shooting BPCR reloads:
* The traditional neck tension ... 0.001 to 0.002
* The Dave Gullo school of thought (Mr Buffalo Arms Co and a top ranked match shooter) ... 0.002 to 0.004

So, go to Track of the Wolf and order a Lee Expander Die and the plug size needed for your bullets. I shoot different base sized bullets for multiple calibers, so have many different sized plugs. If you need a custom size, order a larger sized plug & turn it down in a lathe or drill press with a file
Expander Die ... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=expander%20die
Plugs ... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1

[wgr]

i have a lee expander die. wonder if the plugs from totw will fit

[montana_charlie]

i have a lee expander die. wonder if the plugs from totw will fit
They will ...

[41wyom]

Let’s have a little different slant on this.

Has anyone ever tried neck sizing using those interchangeable bushings?

C. Sharps Model 74, .40-70 SS, Hoke rear/Baldwin front, P. Jones Money bullet unsized at 0.411” SPG lube, 1323 fps.

My normal practice is to run a custom BACO expander (can’t recall the dimensions) that just slightly touches the ID of the (Hornady 405 Win.) case into a fired case. Use a Lyamn M-die to slightly expand the mouth so bullets enter easily and don’t shave, prime (F-C # 150), insert wax paper “disc” (wad?) into case, drop powder (Swiss 1 1 2/), insert 0.060” thick veggie wad, insert bullet with just finger pressure. Lightly crimp with Lyman taper crimp. Bullet can be easily rotated in the case but you cannot pull it out.

Just recently, getting rounds ready for a fire forming visit to the range. Brand new cases, use the BACO expander, everything else the same. But the bullets could not be finger seated. Had to use my old Redding .40-65 Winch. Bullet seating die. Didn’t care as I just saws this as a fire forming session. At the range had decent groups, but one group had (4) c to c less than 5/8” and the 5th made it a 1 ¾” group.

Rather than do the FL sizing and then expand, I’d like to develop the “neck tension” using the BR bushing type die approach on an unaltered fired case. No idea what the tension was on those brand new loads. I suppose I could estimate it by measuring a handful of new cases to average the OD at the mouth area, subtract from that the case mouth thickness x 2 plus the bullet OD.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Tom

[Longwood]

The Track of The Wolf expander plugs measure 9/16" outside diameter.
They are steel but not yet heat treated so they can be drilled and beveled for using as a powder thru die.
If you want to put it in a Hornady or RCBS case activated measure die, use aluminum tape that is very carefully applied to keep it flat.
I burnished mine on a granite after applying the tape to get them to get them to fit nice and tight and insure they are straight. As soon as I finish my tests I will make me some permanent ones from 5/8" material.

[Longwood]

Rather than do the FL sizing and then expand, I’d like to develop the “neck tension” using the BR bushing type die approach on an unaltered fired case. No idea what the tension was on those brand new loads. I suppose I could estimate it by measuring a handful of new cases to average the OD at the mouth area, subtract from that the case mouth thickness x 2 plus the bullet OD.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Tom

When I am striving for the smallest groups,,, I begin with brass of the same brand and lot number.
I weigh them and set aside any that are very far off from the others. I drill all of the primer holes the same and then measure the neck thicknesses. If there is any difference, I machine the outside (not ream) then fireform them. It would not hurt anything to do the weighing after any machining, but I always figured the weight issue was more about the cavity volume and the tiny amount of brass removed from the necks was miniscule.
When I was serious,, I had a 14" and a 10" Thompson Contender barrel in 30-30. One liked some tension, the other did not. I could pull the bullets for the ten inch with my fingers and actually seated them out, then let the rifling seat the bullets. The 14" barrel like for the same exact bullets to jump a tenth of an inch too the rifling.
It is a guessing game, so try what I suggested then experiment with the neck tension from there.
I would load every night after work (worked swing shift) then stop by the range every day on the way to work and test rounds. Do that for about a month and a half and you will be set.:bigsmyl2:

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Wgr. I always seat a bullet to depth in empty case & then pull with enertia hammer puller..then mike base band..oftimes it will have been sized down from I.D. of case neck. I usually use a soft alloy, and have been using expander plugs same dia. as bullet or .001" under..plenty tight & doesn't deform bullet.

[wgr]

thinks for the info guys. you been a lot of help