Loose gas check solution.

[wallenba]

I've been having trouble with my 7MM Lyman mold holding checks tight. I tried Beagling. That helped a bit, but the check was still loose. I annealed the checks. Did not seem to help. I then tried superglue. I just made a mess.
This afternoon it occured to me. Try Loctite. I put a few drops of blue threadlocker on a piece of aluminum foil, then touched the base of the boolit in it. I then seated the check with a Lee die, dry with no lube. (Some of you may have already discovered that small diameter boolits can be sized dry.) Seating the check forces some of the loctite up the sides of the shank.
They are on there solidly, and ready for lubing. Happy:)

[legi0n]

why not thread the bullet and the gas check?
just asking :kidding:

[Cactus Farmer]

Drill the base and use a drive rivet?:kidding:

[shotman]

open the base of the mold LOT easier

[Sagebrush7]

The 6.5mm checks fit the 7mm small base bullets very nicely.

[wallenba]

The 6.5mm checks fit the 7mm small base bullets very nicely.

Hmmm....did not know that, thanks. Will they be large enough in diameter to be effective?

[Sonnypie]

Rather than buggering up your mold, have to tried making your gas checks with slightly thicker materials?
When sized, the thicker material checks will have more squeeze.
Like this example. (http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1310255.jpg)

[Sagebrush7]

Hmmm....did not know that, thanks. Will they be large enough in diameter to be effective?

Made with .008 litho plate they sized on tightly at .285.

[dragonrider]

Wallenba said>
"(Some of you may have already discovered that small diameter boolits can be sized dry.)"

I would open up the gas check portion of the mold.

[wallenba]

Rather than buggering up your mold, have to tried making your gas checks with slightly thicker materials?
When sized, the thicker material checks will have more squeeze.
Like this example. (http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1310255.jpg)

I'm not making 7mm checks right now, I'm using the Hornadys. I make my 338's with a PatMarlin check maker. Eventually I plan on getting more checkmakers. I still have many thousands of commercial checks to go through though.

I have a history of buggering up molds trying to 'fix' them. I can get an aluminum to due what I want, but I'll leave this expensive iron mold unmolested.

[Sonnypie]

My first box of Hornady gas checks made me want to "roll my own".
The checks worked fine.
But like a bag of M&M's, they were gone way too fast. :lol:

[94Doug]

There is a U Tube video of a technique with Lee FCD's. I believe the guy was crimping .30 gas checks with a .270 fcd.....so not sure what the option would be for a 7mm.

Doug

[mainiac]

Why worry about the gas check being loose on the boolit? Once the boolit is run threw the lubesizer,that check is tight then........What am i missing here?

[Ben]

Why worry about the gas check being loose on the boolit? Once the boolit is run threw the lubesizer,that check is tight then........What am i missing here?


You are missing a lot.

Many molds throw bullets with " sub - sized " gas check shank diameters. Blend that with a gas check that might be made from material that is too thin and they won't stay on before or after going through a Lube sizer.

Ben

[mainiac]

You are missing a lot.

Many molds throw bullets with " sub - sized " gas check shank diameters. Blend that with a gas check that might be made from material that is too thin and they won't stay on before or after going through a Lube sizer.

Ben

I used to worry about this very thing, until i bought a 375 marlin and needed a mold for it. I bought a brand new 375449,and it casts wonderful boolits,except that the gas check shank was cut to small. The checks dont even come close to being a snap on fit.

My point is thus,,,this is one of the 2 most accurate leverguns,that ive ever owned/shot. It shoots some scary small groups,and doesnt throw wild fliers,,very nice shooting gun. If them checks are falling off in flight,then it aint affecting the grouping a bit. I dont think a check has ever come off in flight,if its ever happened,ive never seen evidence of it,and i capture all my boolits in a trap,and the trap is littered with checks.

[mainiac]

I used to worry about this very thing, until i bought a 375 marlin and needed a mold for it. I bought a brand new 375449,and it casts wonderful boolits,except that the gas check shank was cut to small. The checks dont even come close to being a snap on fit.

My point is thus,,,this is one of the 2 most accurate leverguns,that ive ever owned/shot. It shoots some scary small groups,and doesnt throw wild fliers,,very nice shooting gun. If them checks are falling off in flight,then it aint affecting the grouping a bit. I dont think a check has ever come off in flight,if its ever happened,ive never seen evidence of it,and i capture all my boolits in a trap,and the trap is littered with checks.

Just re-read your post ben,,and would like to add to the above,,once these loose checked boolits come out of my .379 sizer,i cant start to get a check off,with a thumb nail,so there swaged on there pretty tight,even though they are way loose when installed.

I guess if i had a loose check after sizing, then i would have a big problem.

[wallenba]

I guess if i had a loose check after sizing, then i would have a big problem.

Yep, that's the problem. The Loctite seems to have solved it. I'll check a target at close range to see if they are coming off.

[Ben]

All this is about the thickness of the gas check material and the size of the gas check shank. When the numbers are " right ", there are no problems, when the numbers are wrong, the sizing die alone won't be able to give you a bullet that the gas check is affixed to.

[3006guns]

The gas check shank portion of my Hensley and Gibbs mold was actually tapered and even the Hornady crimp on checks came off easily. Since this particular load combination had the check down past the neck, this wasn't good. I tried the super glue route with no success. Loctite never occured to me at the time although I sure wish it did! It would have bailed me out of a tight spot, at least for the few trial rounds I put together.

I finally ordered a reamer and carefully reamed the shanks straight (two twists.....done) and solved the problem for good. Made me wonder though....why would H&G machine something like that?

[just.don]

"why would H&G machine something like that?"
It is my understanding that at their introduction, all gas checks were to fall off during flight.

[GT27]

From what I have understood they just need to be tight enough to withstand the initial blast of gasses during ignition,so as to prevent the heel of the boolit from melting while it makes its quick trip down the bore! Once it leaves the barrel,its neglible where it is,as long as its in front of the shooter!!Someone correct me if I'm wrong,but in 35 years of reloading this was my understanding!GT27

[DukeInFlorida]

Here was my solution to making my own checks tighter:

First, you have to realize that there's a fixed gap between the punch and die portion of the gas check tools. If you use material thicker than that gap, the forming pressures will be higher, but the fixed gap will FORCE the gas check material in the legs area to be extruded to the gap dimension. The legs will get longer, but the outside and inside diameters of the gas check legs will remain the same.

It's virtually impossible to reduce the diameter of the punch portion of the tool set.

However, it's an easy task to increase the inside diameter of the die portion of the tool set. It's as simple as wrapping some emery cloth (crocus cloth to finish) around a wooden dowel, and using this home made hone to increase the diameter.

That will make the gap between the punch and the die bigger.

But, what gets bigger is the outside diameter of the gas check. Using a thicker gas check material will give you a gas check with a larger outside diameter, while the inner diameter is the same.

When I run these bigger gas checks through my sizing dies, the extra material in the legs gets pushed in, towards the cast boolit shank, and is made to GRIP the shank much tighter.

By beagling the gas check tool, rather than the boolit, I can get better connections between the gas checks and the boolits, without messing with the original design of the expensive mold.

Try my technique (actually, it's Charlie's idea) and see if you don't find it a better way to keep the gas checks tight!

[Texasflyboy]

The gas check shank portion of my Hensley and Gibbs mold was actually tapered and even the Hornady crimp on checks came off easily. Since this particular load combination had the check down past the neck, this wasn't good. I tried the super glue route with no success. Loctite never occured to me at the time although I sure wish it did! It would have bailed me out of a tight spot, at least for the few trial rounds I put together.

I finally ordered a reamer and carefully reamed the shanks straight (two twists.....done) and solved the problem for good. Made me wonder though....why would H&G machine something like that?

Which design? Some of the early designs had tapered bases that looked a lot like gas check bases.

Tom

[Jailer]

Here was my solution to making my own checks tighter:

First, you have to realize that there's a fixed gap between the punch and die portion of the gas check tools. If you use material thicker than that gap, the forming pressures will be higher, but the fixed gap will FORCE the gas check material in the legs area to be extruded to the gap dimension. The legs will get longer, but the outside and inside diameters of the gas check legs will remain the same.

It's virtually impossible to reduce the diameter of the punch portion of the tool set.

However, it's an easy task to increase the inside diameter of the die portion of the tool set. It's as simple as wrapping some emery cloth (crocus cloth to finish) around a wooden dowel, and using this home made hone to increase the diameter.

That will make the gap between the punch and the die bigger.

But, what gets bigger is the outside diameter of the gas check. Using a thicker gas check material will give you a gas check with a larger outside diameter, while the inner diameter is the same.

When I run these bigger gas checks through my sizing dies, the extra material in the legs gets pushed in, towards the cast boolit shank, and is made to GRIP the shank much tighter.

By beagling the gas check tool, rather than the boolit, I can get better connections between the gas checks and the boolits, without messing with the original design of the expensive mold.

Try my technique (actually, it's Charlie's idea) and see if you don't find it a better way to keep the gas checks tight!

How fine of crocus cloth do you use for a final polish? I've tried opening mine up a tad but I need a finer finish. My checks are coming out a bit rough on the OD.

[DukeInFlorida]

pretty sure it was like 1000 grit. Not any less than 800

BE SURE to soak the cloth with oil!

If you skip the oil, it will be too rough.

All honing is done wet (oil)

[aa1911]

I'm having the same issues with two of my .45 rifle molds (.458 win mag), may try the loctite. I run the bullet through my sizer first (with lube) and then wipe off the excess lube on the shank, then place the gas check on and seat the bullet. Straightwall case FL resized, seems they are pinched between the bullet/case well enough so that there should not be any danger of them falling off inside the case.

But I kinda like the idea of tweaking the mold itself. I'm only using Hornady GC's also, sounds like I need to look into making my own maybe and go that route to fix this issue. I'm a huge DIY fan!

[caseyboy]

Silicone caulking works. A great adhesive that cures to a tight bond, good gap filling properties and remains flexible.

[shotman]

Open the bottom of the mold. easy to do . I had to do it on the 429303. find the right drill and drill the check part out

[Good Cheer]

Loctite!!!
Thanks. Will try that on the gazillion old Lyman brass GC's in the brown cardboard boxes.

[KrisR]

question which Loctite? thread locker or glue?

[hornady]

I resonantly bought the RCBS 22-055 SP GC mold I cast up about 400 bullets. As I tried to GC them the Hornady GC would not stay on, I had a bottle of the Lee Liquid Alox. I dipped the bullet bases in the Lee lube and set the bullets in the check the next day the tacky Lee lube held the checks in place and I ran them threw my Lyman 450. After they went threw the 450 I checked and you could not pop the checks off with your thumbnail. I need to load and shoot some but the Lee lube seems to be a cheap easy fix.

[tjones]

I resonantly bought the RCBS 22-055 SP GC mold I cast up about 400 bullets. As I tried to GC them the Hornady GC would not stay on, I had a bottle of the Lee Liquid Alox. I dipped the bullet bases in the Lee lube and set the bullets in the check the next day the tacky Lee lube held the checks in place and I........but the Lee lube seems to be a cheap easy fix.

Your fix has been used for years! tj