Thoughts on the Speer 158gr SWC HP bullets...

[DEVERS454]

All,

How does Speer swagged lead hollow point 158gr .358 bullets compare to soft lead?

I was wondering as I am looking to reload some 38spl +P rounds to match my Rem factory "FBI load".

I've always prefered the 38spl +P in my snub nose revolvers, but, the cost of a box of the factory Rem is over $30 and I can reload for less than 1/5th that.

Anyone know if the Speer bullets are as soft as the Remington?

Regards.

[rintinglen]

Those speer bullets are very soft. I have no experience with the Remington HP, but have loaded and fired thousands of the Remington HB WC's. I would venture to guess that both are made from nearly pure lead and they seem to be about equally soft. I KNOW that dropping them on the cement will deform them...not information I wanted to have, but it is what it is.

[DEVERS454]

Thanks for the info. I noticed they were nearly identical, maybe the Rem bullets having a slightly larger hollowpoint.

They both have the same dry film lube on them, which I guess is a good thing. I've never had any leading with it in my Ruger or Smith barrels. (thus far)

[runfiverun]

they are swaged not cast.
thier usual alloy is 5% antimony and pure lead no tin.

[Rocky Raab]

Hornady swaged (correct spelling) bullets are the same: nearly pure lead pressure-formed to shape and dry-lubed. It's best to keep them to 900 fps or under, but that's where most standard-pressure revolver loads run anyway. If you get any leading with them, you can probably eliminate it with a thin coat of LLA. Just be very careful with your "tumbling" -- a gentle swirling action in a plastic tub is best. Those bullets do dent easily.

[Wally]

I loaded a box of Speer lead SWC's 250 grain .45's... very inaccurate...so bad that I pulled over 90 bullets and used them in my Production pot.

[fecmech]

The factory loaded +P SWC's are swaged soft lead, that's why they are effective and reliably expand at .38 spl velocities. They are not target loads and IMO should not be viewed as such. Really, if they expand reliably does it matter if they lead the barrel a bit or stay inside 1.5"@25 yds?? If a fellow wants to practice just load any 158 SWC with good lube and bang away with the same powder as the SD load and your POI will be the same. Use the HP's for SD.

[Gray Fox]

I have used these tumble lubed in LLA for the exact purpose you discussed. I up the charge about 10% and load them in .357 mag brass for my 3" model 65 carry gun. I have tested the .38 +P from a 2" Chiefs Special and in .357 from the Model 65 and they both do a number on gallon jugs of water. Either loading is similar to what Sheriff Jim Wilson used to say he carried in his 3" 65. His frequent writing about that gun was one of the reasons I looked for quite a while until I found mine. I'm very pleased with the gun and the load. That being said, I'm now working on some loads with the Lee 158 RNFP and its nice wide meplat for the two revolvers. Cast of AC WW I won't worry as to wheather or not the swaged HP expands or gets clogged with cloth, etc. The boolits are a lot cheaper, too. Hope this helps. GF

[Moondawg]

They work great for me. I load the Speer bullets to about 900fps, and use in my carry gun. because they are soft they are pretty much sure to expand at lower velocities, and not over penetrate. From what I have read, the original 38 spec. FBI load was loaded with soft 158gr LSWC-HP and it was judged to be as effective as a 45 acp hardball load. There have been a lot of people shot over the years with the old 38 spec FBI load and it was judged to be effective.

[nitro-express]

I use and like the 158 HP SWC Speer. I load them to about 1000 fps in my SAA 357. They should be perfect in the 38, even at +P. I use Red Dot in my 357, HS6 would be my choice in the 38. I've discovered that the 38 and 357 have quite different personalities, in spite of the their similarities.

[fredj338]

I doubt there is any antimony in the swaged Speer, they are really soft. Designed for a max vel of 900fps, they should be.

[avogunner]

I loaded a box of Speer lead SWC's 250 grain .45's... very inaccurate...so bad that I pulled over 90 bullets and used them in my Production pot.

I've had the exact same experience with those swaged .45 SWC's and I did the same thing - threw them in the pot!

[TCFAN]

All,

How does Speer swagged lead hollow point 158gr .358 bullets compare to soft lead?

I was wondering as I am looking to reload some 38spl +P rounds to match my Rem factory "FBI load".

I've always prefered the 38spl +P in my snub nose revolvers, but, the cost of a box of the factory Rem is over $30 and I can reload for less than 1/5th that.

Anyone know if the Speer bullets are as soft as the Remington?

Regards.
I think the speer bullet is pretty soft if it is like their hollow base wad cutter.
I have just started to work up a practice load for my SP101 38 special to duplicate the "FBI Load" as loaded by Remington. I will be using the SWC 358156 HP by Lyman or NOE. I am still working with different powders to get the same point of impact at the approximate same velocity..........Terry

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on TLing lightly with LLA. Load either Hornady or Speer lead 158 SWCHPs over 5.5 gr Unique in 38 SPL casess to +P equal to Win or Fed FBI load. Will run 950 fps +/- out of 4" revolver.

Larry Gibson

[Outpost75]

+1 on Larry's load recommendations.

However, Speer swaged bullets are not pure lead. Probabaly about 2% Sb, because that is what common lead wire is. It is soft, about 8 BHN, but not pure. Fully cold worked lead alloy will test softer than a cast billet of the same alloy which it is extruded from, due to recrystallization of the worked alloy. It also is affected by the extrusion method used to make the wire, whether "direct" extrusion in which the wire is forced forward in the same direction as ram travel, or "back" extrusion, wherein the wire is squeezed out through a die contained in the ram in the opposite direction from billet compression. At the arsenals in making wire for. 30 cal cores, a 5" diameter billet weighing about 200 pounds was warmed to about 180 degrees F in a boiling water bath (which eases flow and reduces extrusion force, compared to a room temperature billet) and the wire back extruded, being caught and wound onto three reels, which are used to feed the cold header used to cut, preform and bleed cores to weight. Modern double-blow cold headers can run. 30-cal. cores at about 500-600 strokes per minute.

[jmort]

"...thier usual alloy is 5% antimony"

I'd be surprised if they were 5% but then, I am often surprised. I'm thinking a little antimony, 2% as suggested, or even less. As noted, they are soft.

[Outpost75]

"...thier usual alloy is 5% antimony" I'd be surprised if they were 5%......

5% antimonial wire cannot be coiled onto reels, unless large diameter ones, 1-foot radius, as it is brittle and will crack in tight bends. When government contracts specified hard lead cores, wire was direct extruded and captured in 5 ft. straight lengths and boxed for transport to the cut-off machine. Pieces hopper fed on angle-iron supports into the machine which cut slugs to length. Very seldom used today, as labor intensive. Cal. .30 M72 Match was done at FA by that process and also the earlier Cal. .30 Ball M1 of pre WW2 era.