.40-65 Twist Rates

[Dragoon 45]

I know the more or less standard twist rate for a 40-65 is 1-16". Lately I have been reading that some shooters are going to a 1-14" or faster twist. I assume they are shooting big boolits, over 450 grns, in these faster twist barrels.

Does anyone have any knowledge on the results they are getting? I am looking at rebarreling one of my rifles and was curious if the faster twist rate would make sense, my boolit of choice in .40 cal is the Lyman 410663.

Thank You.

[KCSO]

You can use Greeners formula to get the best twist rate for your boolit. The original 40-65 was nothing like what we shoot today. The originals I have are more of an express round with a 1-20 twist and a 265 grain bullet, a full 65 grains more or less of FFg black. The modern 330 and larger bullets are better for long range and for knocking down steel but are not as good a deer load. For all round use today a 1-16 will work with bullets from 270 to 350 grains pretty well. If you want a hevier bullet you MIGHT need a 1-14 but it would depend on the particular bulet and the velocity you can push it.

[Dragoon 45]

What I am looking for is what results shooters are getting using the faster twists. Is there an advantage going to it or is there little gain to be had?

I understand that there is also a move by some shooters to use a 1-16" twist in the .45 calibers now. But I have seen little on what results anyone is getting going to these faster twists.

I generally don't trust magazine articles as in most cases it seems that the writers are trying to sell a product. Most gun magazines seem to be of this bent; there are exceptions, but they are few and far between. I prefer to ask shooters what their experiences are and then guage if there is an advantage or not to a particular product or way of doing things.


You can use Greeners formula to get the best twist rate for your boolit. The original 40-65 was nothing like what we shoot today. The originals I have are more of an express round with a 1-20 twist and a 265 grain bullet, a full 65 grains more or less of FFg black. The modern 330 and larger bullets are better for long range and for knocking down steel but are not as good a deer load. For all round use today a 1-16 will work with bullets from 270 to 350 grains pretty well. If you want a hevier bullet you MIGHT need a 1-14 but it would depend on the particular bulet and the velocity you can push it.

[Boz330]

Dragoon, as KCSO said it depends on what you are looking for. The 16 twist works good with boolits 400+. My first 40-65 had an 18 twist and that handled 350gr boolits fine but wouldn't shoot the 400gr.
One of the guys that shoots with us is shooting a 12 twist 40 (40-110) and it has been an unmitigated disaster which is what everyone tried to tell him. He was wanting smokeless results from BP and it didn't work. It is extremely hard on brass to boot. Unfortunately this isn't a 14 twist which is what you asked about and a considerably bigger case but might be indicative of the potential issues.
The problem in a 40-65 is that you cut down your available powder space with a bigger boolit unless get a custom built mold, but even at that powder capacity is limited. I would think that you need to go to the 40-82 or 40-90 to get good results from the bigger boolits that a 14 twist would handle.
You can go here to run the numbers if you want; http://www.tmtpages.com/twistrate.htm

Bob

[Don McDowell]

In a 40-65 a 16 twist will easily handle 400 gr bullets, and that's about all the heavier a bullet that deminished case capacity can handle.
There are some running 14 twist in bigger cases like the various 4082's available, but you really don't hear much about them anymore, I just don't think you can get enough velocity out of blackpowder to use the faster twist.
There was a lot of fluster about the 16 twist 45's but that too has quited substantially. Which sort of tells me it's not working quite as well as invivisioned...

[Dragoon 45]

That's kind of what I suspected. I had an offer of a new Green Mountain barrel with a 1-14" twist for a very good price. I did not think it would do me any good unless I went to a much larger boolit than the 400 grn one I shoot now.

I had read a lot of hype about the 16" twists in the .45's, but I could never find anyone who shot one to find out if the hype was true.

I am cautious by nature when it comes to the various fads that seem to sweep through the shooting community. They rarely last for long and normally don't live up to the hype they are given when first started. As I am not blessed with unlimited funding, I try to pick and choose anything I am going to try carefully.

Thank you and everybody else for the replies.


In a 40-65 a 16 twist will easily handle 400 gr bullets, and that's about all the heavier a bullet that deminished case capacity can handle.
There are some running 14 twist in bigger cases like the various 4082's available, but you really don't hear much about them anymore, I just don't think you can get enough velocity out of blackpowder to use the faster twist.
There was a lot of fluster about the 16 twist 45's but that too has quited substantially. Which sort of tells me it's not working quite as well as invivisioned...

[badgeredd]

That's kind of what I suspected. I had an offer of a new Green Mountain barrel with a 1-14" twist for a very good price. I did not think it would do me any good unless I went to a much larger boolit than the 400 grn one I shoot now.

I had read a lot of hype about the 16" twists in the .45's, but I could never find anyone who shot one to find out if the hype was true.

I am cautious by nature when it comes to the various fads that seem to sweep through the shooting community. They rarely last for long and normally don't live up to the hype they are given when first started. As I am not blessed with unlimited funding, I try to pick and choose anything I am going to try carefully.

Thank you and everybody else for the replies.

This is purely my opinion so treat it as such. I have a 40-65 Roller and I am able to get good accuracy with boolits up to and including 400 grains with both smokeless and BP. I also have a wildcat that I built last winter for smokeless with a relatively small case capacity for the .416" bore. I figured that I had little chance of getting much over 2000 fps with a 400 grain boolit so I went with a 1-14 twist. To date I have shot boolits ranging in weight from 300 grains to 400 grains with good accuracy at velocities between 1700 fps to 2275 fps. I suspect that going to a 1-14 twist for the 40-65 may well be a waste of time and money due to the velocity that one can reasonably expect with safe loads...be they smokeless or BP. I can also see where a faster twist MAY add to fouling problems with BP in the 40-65...but that is conjecture on my part.

Edd

[Don McDowell]

Dragoon I think that if you wanted to mess with a bigger 40 than the 65 , that green mtn barrel might be alright. But a 40-65 is really straining to put a 400 gr bullet past 1200 fps, and for that the regular 16 and 18 twists work fine.

[Hiwall55]

What about a 40/72 shooting 430 gr. bullets. Which twist would be better? I was thinking of building one next year.

[Don McDowell]

You might pm Kenny, I believe he has his heavy barreled 40-70 with the fast twist. I'ld bet he can fill you in on the ins and outs of it.

[Hiwall55]

Thanks Don

[Don McDowell]

You betcha , not sure if Kenny has his rifle or not, but it should be coming real soon if he doesn't have it, and I believe one of his shooting buds has one so there'ld be some useful info there as well.

[Red River Rick]

Does anyone have any knowledge on the results they are getting? I am looking at rebarreling one of my rifles and was curious if the faster twist rate would make sense, my boolit of choice in .40 cal is the Lyman 410663.

Thank You.

Dragoon:

Time will tell................soon, about the results from the 40-72, with a .40 Elliptical, 456 gr, in the 1 - 14" twist.

RRR

[41wyom]

I have a C. Sharps Model 74 that originally was chambered in .40-65. I ordered it with a 1:16 twist Badger. At the time the C. Sharps std. twist was 1:18. I bought a used Brooks Creedmore bullet on the internet, 411-grains 16:1 with the slightly smaller front driving bands and it went about 1260 fps (59 Swiss 1 1/2). I sent it back to the factory and had it re-barreled to .40-70 SS, again with a 1:16 Badger barrel (Hornady 405 Win. case). I now use a Paul Jones Money bullet at 418-grains, also with the reduced dia. two front bands. That gives about 1323 fps (68 Swiss 1 1/2). Like Don said, a custom bullet helps develop more powder capacity and that gives faster velocity to help take advantage of the faster twist with the heavier bullet. Both chamberings are accurate and do the job really well on the rams. If I had to use a factory std. mould it would probably be the Saeco 740 at 400-grains but it would not have the powder capacity needed for the faster mv's.

Tom

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I do have a silhouette rifle in 40-70SS with 1-14 twist. And will be building a Tollofson rifle in same caliber for midrage and also will have a 1-14 twist.

KW
The Lunger

[Hiwall55]

I was wondering because my 40/65's shoot my Paul Jones 415 gr.spitzer with 2 bore size driving bands and a 430 gr. Brooks with one bore size band extremely well, but i won't be shooting anything with less weight than that and I know I should be getting more Muzzle velocity with a 40/70SS or a 40/72, Thanks

[rmark]

Dragoon 45, I sent you a PM