sights

[wgr]

i just bought a c, sharp rifle. tried both the .o25 and .050 post i just cant pick them up. im going to put a blade on it and get rid of the hood. if that dont work i,m lost any help from you guys. thinks bill

[bigted]

i hear ya there...i justy had an experience that duplicates yours. my ol eyes wont do well with the hooded front site either. my uberti has this incert type sight and i dont see thru it very well at all...miserable is all i can say. i thought my open sight days were ended and installed scopes on both my 85 japchesters then i came to the same question as you..what about an open blade site. well jurys still out with that but dont dispair friend...your not alone and ill keep ya posted with my success or failure with the blade sights and my vernier style and the marples wrist tang sights. i can see thru the marples very well when the incert is removed so maybe...will see.

[Boz330]

What kind of shooting are you doing? The blade is nice for hunting and would probably work OK for paper shooting. I had to go to a scope for silly wets but can still see the paper bulls good enough to use apertures. The Hadley eye cup helps as well if you don't have one.

Bob

[zuke]

I went with a Lyman #17 site with interchangable insert's.
I kept playing with them till I found the one I like.

[bigted]

informal targets and rock killin so far but id like very much to hunt with them. the hood is what gives me fits like you mention. i have a blade on my 120 and so far it has done well in the rock killin field but that is not very sientific for testing so i shoot my hiwalls with scopes on for developement...that way i know it is the load and not my eyes on a dificult day. i had a detached retina and the fuzzy floaty gets bothersome some days worse then others....even with a scope so i have good shooting days and not so good but even the not so good shooting days are tons better then not shooting at all.

[wgr]

i,ll do mostly hunting with it so maybe the blade will work

[Boz330]

i,ll do mostly hunting with it so maybe the blade will work

Not sure it is historically correct but I really like an ivory bead for hunting. The white seems to show up better for me than a gold one or straight black blade.

Bob

[Chill Wills]

[QUOTE=bigted;1802079 i have a blade on my 120 and so far it has done well in the rock killin field but that is not very sientific for testing so i shoot my hiwalls with scopes on for developement...that way i know it is the load and not my eyes on a dificult day. i had a detached retina and the fuzzy floaty gets bothersome some days worse then others....even with a scope so i have good shooting days and not so good but even the not so good shooting days are tons better then not shooting at all.[/QUOTE]


Ted, if you want a fix, Here is one that will work. Disclaimer: Advice is a tough thing to receive because of peoples pre-conceived notions. The “ya – sure! That ain’t goina work!”

Testing for accuracy with irons (not scopes) and…To shoot your best with less than ageing eyes like mine and maybe yours, try this.

Outfit your front with a good globe sight with interchangeable inserts. Lyman 17a at the very least!

Choose a mid-size aperture (circle) like 0.120” or 0.130”

Put a peep sight on the rear. That would most likely be tang sight but a receiver sight is great too if you have it on the rifle of interest. A “Hadley” adjustable, if you have one is great but any disk is good and an interchangeable is fine (better). Just not one with a hole so small that you get what looks like fuzzy lint in the aperture (hole). Fuzzy fiber looking stuff in the hole (which really is not in there) means too small. Go one size larger aperture.

OK, this set up is like a pin-hole camera lens. You know about that right?

BUT, wait! You’re not done.

Get a pair of dime store (do they have dime stores anymore?) reading glasses. The lowest correction will likely be best. +1.00 diopter or maybe up to +1.50 diopter.

The pin hole will keep the round black target to a round blob. Not like a teenager sees it but workable. Surprisingly workable in fact! The reading glasses keep the front sight sharp so you can center the target blob in it.
Trust me, it works!... Well!

I compete with shooting glasses set up like this. I use Bifocals, with the main lens set to the front sight and the lower close up reader lens set to read about 6” from my eye to resolve the small lines on the rear windage and elevation of the target tang.

OK, that’s it for a start. Using this method, we can shoot and test loads as accurately as with a 6X vintage scope in normal (read good) daylight conditions. For hunting you change it a little.

Back to the gratification of giving advice, If someone tries only half of the advice offered and then comes back and tells me “that didn’t work”…… I just shut my mouth and walk away.

BTW, I have an eye full of floaters too. Had 'em since I was a little kid. More now. Some days are better than others. Just have to look away and come back and start again before the little buggers get in the way again. Two weeks ago at the BPCR Silhouette championships, they were worse that ever. It does effect the outcome of my days shooting. Just part of getting younger!


Best of luck!

[texasmac]

Bob,

If you read some of the old Lyman sight catalogs, ivory was the preferred front sight bead for the same reason you mentioned. Lyman discussed in convincing details why white or ivory was better than black or gold.

Wayne

[Boz330]

Bob,

If you read some of the old Lyman sight catalogs, ivory was the preferred front sight bead for the same reason you mentioned. Lyman discussed in convincing details why white or ivory was better than black or gold.

Wayne

When I got my first C-Sharps Hi-wall ( they were less than $900) it came with a white bead. I bought it specifically to hunt with and the only time it is less than desirable is if you are looking into early or late sun, when the deer are moving. If the sun is behind you it is almost like they have a giant target on them.

Bob

[41wyom]

The 1.00 reading glass works. But you also might consider a Merit optical device that has a suction cup that attaches the little device to your glasses. Have used it for years with my 1903 Springfield and issue sights and handgun silhouette, where front sights are "blades".

FWIW

[Chill Wills]

The 1.00 reading glass works. But you also might consider a Merit optical device that has a suction cup that attaches the little device to your glasses.FWIW

41wyom, is that the one with a lens in it? As apposed to the one they make with an iris? Knobloch shooting glasses are an option too but not a likely option for the average rifleman. www.champchoice.com/cat-Safety_Accessories-251-5.aspx

The Merit has .....well ...merit. Sorry bout that:p

The dime store glasses can be an easy and inexpensive way to see what you might need to do before moving on to better options.


All this is useful for working up and testing accuracy loads for hunting and match shooting. Then for the days in the field hunting, switching back to the simpler sights paired with large meaty targets seem to go together better.

[wgr]

41wyom, is that the one with a lens in it? As apposed to the one they make with an iris? Knobloch shooting glasses are an option too but not a likely option for the average rifleman. www.champchoice.com/cat-Safety_Accessories-251-5.aspx

The Merit has .....well ...merit. Sorry bout that:p

The dime store glasses can be an easy and inexpensive way to see what you might need to do before moving on to better options.


All this is useful for working up and testing accuracy loads for hunting and match shooting. Then for the days in the field hunting, switching back to the simpler sights paired with large meaty targets seem to go together better.

what do i do with my glasses ?

[41wyom]

The Merit device I have does not have a lens. It's like the lens opening on a camera. You open or close it depending on YOUR eyes and the sight picture that works best for you...and...the ambient light conditions influence how much you open or close it. The target is still a blob but it lets you clearly see the front sight, which is key to shooting iron sights, especially for us old f-rts!

[Chill Wills]

Having shot BPCRS competitively for 10+ years I'll opine that the Lyman 17a and similarly sized front globes are a disadvantage as compared to larger diameter globes.

Big Ted writes: bigted "i have a blade on my 120 and so far it has done well in the rock killin field but that is not very sientific for testing so i shoot my hiwalls with scopes on for developement...that way i know it is the load and not my eyes on a dificult day."

I recommended the Lyman 17 as a minimum so as to test hunting loads, not to shoot competitively. The only reason to put a globe on a hunting rifle is to have an aperture to test loads. What front sight to use when hunting may well be a different choice.

excess650, question, Given we all have our likes regarding front sight design and makers, how does that effect load testing hunting loads using an aperture? Maybe I don't get your point.

Michael Rix

[Boz330]

Big Ted writes: bigted "i have a blade on my 120 and so far it has done well in the rock killin field but that is not very sientific for testing so i shoot my hiwalls with scopes on for developement...that way i know it is the load and not my eyes on a dificult day."

I recommended the Lyman 17 as a minimum so as to test hunting loads, not to shoot competitively. The only reason to put a globe on a hunting rifle is to have an aperture to test loads. What front sight to use when hunting may well be a different choice.

excess650, question, Given we all have our likes regarding front sight design and makers, how does that effect load testing hunting loads using an aperture? Maybe I don't get your point.

Michael Rix

I'm guessing he means that having the option of a front aperture would work better for a round bulls-eye for group testing.

Bob

[Chill Wills]

I'm guessing he means that having the option of a front aperture would work better for a round bulls-eye for group testing. Bob

OK Bob, I hope so, as that is the point I first made to Ted in the post he (excess650) responded to saying a globe larger than the Lyman 17 is needed or at least would be more desirable.
Are we all saying the same thing and agree? Sounds like.

Clear as mud?:drinks:

[Boz330]

OK Bob, I hope so, as that is the point I first made to Ted in the post he (excess650) responded to saying a globe larger than the Lyman 17 is needed or at least would be more desirable.
Are we all saying the same thing and agree? Sounds like.

Clear as mud?:drinks:

I use to think the same thing about the size of the front hood but after using one I don't know as there is a big difference. Field of view is bigger but in a target situation that isn't a biggie. I have hunted with a 17A with a cross-hair insert and really like it for daylight open field hunting. It sucks early and late or in the woods though.
My fronts vary from a PH on a 22 Martini (almost an inch) to a 17A on a hunting rifle. The 17A might give way to a white bead for deer season though.

BTW I got a Brooks 40cal mold from you a couple years ago and that thing has really worked out well from my Badger barreled Ballard.

Bob

[John Boy]

tried both the .o25 and .050 post i just cant pick them up. im going to put a blade on it and get rid of the hood.
WGR, before you change to the blade, which I don't recommend - leave the globe on and put a dab of white gloss or aluminum paint on the pin head. Sunlight will reflect off the pin head for better vision of the sight. The old German Schuetzen shooters had pin head target sights where the bead was made of silver to reflect the sun light

[bigted]

many things to try. chills...thanks for the detailed post...ill give it a try and i do have a browning globe and a uberti globe that has different incerts so ill experiment with em. my first ill happening was cured with adjusting my mva to stand vertical so i am now able to see thru it without the fuzzys so bad...however some days are still better then others and i also notice that as the day goes by my floatys get in the way more n more and the looking away works till they return almost as fast as i look back to the sights.

off work for a couple days now so will experiment with all these sugestions.

[Chill Wills]

BTW I got a Brooks 40cal mold from you a couple years ago and that thing has really worked out well from my Badger barreled Ballard. Bob

Bob, Thanks for letting me know that. Helps know who I am talking to. I bet we have friends in common.
I am glad that mould got a great home. There are a few stories and background about that mould I won't hijack this with. OK, just a little hijack. Bullets out of that mould helped me win the Arizona State Silhouette championship a few years back when my other rifle's trigger sear went south and I used my 40-60 Maynard to finish the match.

Big Ted, So, you have a few good front sights to choose from and can give this a try. No problem there.

It won't ever be perfect for us old guys anymore but the game goes to those that can adapt and overcome. One of the grander old gentlemen that shoots these rifles in silhouette matches worked around floaters and cataracts and lens replacements ( he is in his later eights) and his determination and just plain refusal to give in, kept his scores in the high AAA-Master class and would win the occasional match....... with a big grin on his face.

Most people can shoot better than they think at first. They just need to slow down and really focus on the "centering up the target" task and NOT pull the trigger on a less than great sight picture.....even when you can not see picture perfect! All puns intended. Just find ways to work with what you have.


As you already know, just keep at it and don't give up trying. You are already well along the path. Singleshots with Black Powder is fun stuff!

[Boz330]

You shoot LRML as well don't you? My life long hunting and shooting buddy is Dick Hoff, with Kenn Heismann not far behind. Also shoot with Dave Munch. Got a Gibbs rifle couple months back and I'm working on learning that puppy.
Good to hear that you have that mold trained so well. IIRC I shot my first clean at 300yds with it and many more since then. Have a match this weekend hopefully it will come through again.

Bob

[wgr]

i got a blade sight for my sharp rifle. it will never be a target sight but i can see it. no way could i see a post even painted white. this rifle will be used for hunting mostly so im happy. it makes since because i can shoot my muzzle loader with a blade. and thinks for all the help ill keep it in mind for the next round.

[Boz330]

A little trick if it is a silver blade. Clean it with some fine steel wool before you go out and that thing will shine like downtown at night.

Bob

[Chill Wills]

You shoot LRML as well don't you? My life long hunting and shooting buddy is Dick Hoff, with Kenn Heismann not far behind. Also shoot with Dave Munch. Got a Gibbs rifle couple months back and I'm working on learning that puppy.
Good to hear that you have that mold trained so well. IIRC I shot my first clean at 300yds with it and many more since then. Have a match this weekend hopefully it will come through again. Bob

Ahaa yes, we do have a few friends in common. I would see them both in Oak Ridge and then Ken at he BPTR Nationals in Raton, which is next week. I wonder if he will be there this year?
As you know, Dave has this great old Crown Graphic press camera (B&W) and would take neat looking pictures of the match.
You also might know Woody from Friendship. He used to be here in Colorado.
Gota go and make ready to for next week.
Take care.

[Boz330]

Ahaa yes, we do have a few friends in common. I would see them both in Oak Ridge and then Ken at he BPTR Nationals in Raton, which is next week. I wonder if he will be there this year?
As you know, Dave has this great old Crown Graphic press camera (B&W) and would take neat looking pictures of the match.
You also might know Woody from Friendship. He used to be here in Colorado.
Gota go and make ready to for next week.
Take care.

Kenn won't be there but Dick is leaving in the morning to meet Ed and Arleen in Knoxville and ride out with them. Lee Shaver is having a clinic for the potential shooters on the US Team for the world meet next year in South Africa.
Good Luck.

Bob