Rifled 870 bbl. information needed.

[littlejack]

Hey to all of you slug shooters:
I just received my Lyman 525 gr. Sabot slug mould in the mail. I am going to put some slug loads together for my 870, but would like the opinions from the fellas that have been doing it a while. I am still lookin for a rifled barrel. I see a few for sale on the Auction Arms site. I should have one within the next two weeks.
I guess the what I am wanting to know is, are there any big differencees in the Mossberg manufactured barrells, opposed to the Remington made barrells? Either better or worse? Do some barrels come with better sights than others?
I will be getting a barrel with sights, and NOT the cantilever scope mount.
I would prefer the 24" length as opposed to a 20"barrell, more sight radius.
Also, is there any difference in accuracy between the 2 3/4" and the 3" loads, and or chambers of the same lengths?
Any information and load data will be greatly appreciated, as this will be my first attempt at slug shell reloading and R&D.
I do have the Lyman #4 Edition, which has a lot of loads listed for the 525 grain Sabot slug. I did get the Lyman paper with the mould that has some loads listed for the slug.
Jack

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jack, the Mossberg barrels are known to be thicker at the muzzle and are cheaper but if you want the best then look for Hastings rifled barrel.
The Lyman 4 th Edition has all the loads that you will ever need!
I'm taking the liberty of letting the pictures do the talking.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Holeinwad.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Permanentwoundchannelcopy.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Target.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/44grBlueDotLyman525.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman31grWSF-Fed12S4Wad.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman525inwads.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/DSC02719.jpg
Hoping it helps.
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
www.BlazingSabots.com

[littlejack]

Ajay:
Thank you for the photos. Those are some good lookin loads.
Thanks for the information on the barrels. I guess it will boil down to what barrel comes my way first.
I just finished casting some of the slugs. It is hot here, just under 100*. I started leakin right off. (sweating)
I cleaned the mould, and preheated. Slugs came out good right from the start. I was using some alloy that I cast some hard pp boolits for my Mosin Nagant.
I weighed one slug at 505 grains. They must be harder than I thought. They look good though.
I am going to load some up and shoot them in my smooth cyl. bore just for effect. This will give me a group size to start with, and I hope it will only get better with the rifled barrel.
Jack

[shotman]

you need to slug the barrel when you get it they vary I had 2 rem and one was .730 and other .727. a shot cup takes up room and it also spins and will throw the slug

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jack, go ahead try it in a smooth bore but be sure to put a nitro card in wad and punch the hole in the petals like in the first picture and go deer hunting!!!!
Time to have fun blowing water bottles etc, you name it!
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
VdoMemories-Blazing Sabots.LLC
www.Blazing Sabots.com

[littlejack]

I did mic the one slug. It measured .771 around the base skirt, and .785 around the upper diameter.
Does this sound proper?
Jack

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Jack, you mean it measured .671 around the base skirt, and .685 around the upper diameter.
Yes its fine, your next step is put the slug in each type of wad that you have and try pushing it through the barrel with a wooden dowel, till you find a wad that will take about 10 lbs of pressure from you to move it through the barrel, when doing this always turn the slug in wad around and put the OP part of the wad in first and push the slug part with a wooden rod!
We do not want to crush the cushioning part of the wad instead looking for the fit in the barrel.
Now this wad and your barrel combo will give you the best accuracy from your smooth bore!
When I say 10 lbs it could be even 12 or 14 lbs.
Above all have fun while you are at it!!
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots.LLC
www.Blazing Sabots.com

[littlejack]

Ajay, you are correct.
My Bad. The measurments ARE .671 and .685 respectively.
Now, I have myself questioning weather I should get a cantilevered bbl or not. I HAVE gone to scopes on all of my long guns, because of my failing eyes. It would only seem logical to have a scope on the slug gun as well.
Anyone have expierience with the combo barrels and scopes? To me, the scopes look cheap.
I have a nice little Leupold Rifleman 3x7x 32mm on my M/N that works very well.
I guess, I'm still kikin tires.
Jack

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jack, I too am getting old and no longer can shoot without a scope!
Here is a Nikon 3-9 X BDC on special for $139-95:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=001256725
The combo deal ones are not going to last!
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots.LLC
www.Blazing Sabots.com

[oldandslow]

lj, 8/6/12

About a year ago I started workiing with smooth bore slugs, both saboted and full bore in a Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun (Marine Magnum). I tried the Lyman 525 slug, the BPI-NWCP shuttlecock and Foster slugs, all in different wads (BPI #18, #24, Fed 12S4, Remington) with the petals cut part-way off or all the way off. I tried filling the hollow bases of some slugs with epoxy as some shooters recommend. I tried different hulls, mainly the 2 and 3/4" Cheddite and once Fired Federal OO-Buck and Remingon hulls. I also tried the BPI Gualandi full bore slugs with the attached plastic wad. I used a variety of gas seals (BPI- which often tore or deformed despite the load) and the gas seal of the BPI wads with all the wad above the gas seal cut off (no deformities at all despite the loads). I tried roll crimping and fold crimping (both 6 and 8 folds).
I used 12 gauge shot cards beneath all the slugs.

Despite multiple trials using a Leopold VX-3, 2-7 power scope mounted to the receiver I could not get consistent groups at 25 and 50 yards except with the Gualandi DGS fullbore slugs. The Gualandi slugs would consistently give 1.25" groups at 25 yards and 1.5-3" groups at 50 yards. The saboted slugs would get good groups sometimes but there was no consistency despite keeping the load parameters the same and cleaning the bore frequently. I would gather up the fired wads and often some of the petals were bent or torn off on one side.

So after doing a lot of internet research here and at ShotgunWorld.com on their slug-shooters forum I found many shooters preferred full-bore slugs. While some folks would get good results with the saboted slugs it seemed as if the majority got better results with a fullbore slug in a rifled barrel.

So I priced 870 slug barrels. Both Remington and Savage make rifled barrels for the Remington 870. I could not find any Remington barrels in-stock at the supplier's so I went with the Savage barrel for about $200, about $100 cheaper then its Remington equivalent. I was pleasantly surprised as the Savage barrel dropped right into my 870 and locked in tight as I tightened the barrel nut.

I then ordered a 770 grain fullbore slug mold from Accurate Molds after slugging my new barrel. I have worked up a number of loads using powder recommendations from some helpful people on the forums using two types of wads (the BPI #18 and Federal 12S4) and also a solid column using gas seals and 12 gauge shot cards in the new Cheddite hulls. I pan-lube the slug and have tried both roll crimps and fold crimps. I'm getting consistent 25 yard groups at 1" and am running the slug subsonic at 955 feet/second (any faster loadings and the recoil gets a bit much) with no leading of the barrel. It doesn't seem to matter which wad column I use or whether I roll or fold crimp as the accuracy is the same. This should serve my purposes as a pig-gun from 10-50 yards.

So I hope your foray into saboted slugs with your 870 works better than mine did but if it doesn't you might try a fullbore slug. That 770 grain slug is a real thumper.

best wishes- oldandslow

PS- veteran slug-shooters like Ajay, Longbow, Hubel, Tommygirl, Turbo and Greg have a number of helpful postings on this forum and SGW if you search out their posts.

PPS- I see you're in western Oregon. I did my college at OSU and med school in Portland. We may have stomped over the same ground. Go Beavers.

[Aaron]

Do optics from the beginning. Use a good low power scope or red dot. 3x is too high ifyou are jump shooting in thick stuff. Might need a different stock for proper cheek weld.

Aaron

[littlejack]

Thank you for the information fellas. This is what I have been looking for. This will save me and others plenty of R&D in getting started.
Jack

[littlejack]

Well, I won a Hasting 20" rifled barrel on flea-bay. My winning bid was 152.50 + 17.00 shipping.
The discription states that the barrel is used, but looks new. I think that I did very good for that
price. It has the cantilever mount, so it looks like I will be scoping it.
I shot some of the slugs in my smooth bore and the cylinder bore choke. The groups left a lot to
be desired, about 5" at 50 yards. The site was the factory bead, so I shouldn't expect too much as
far as grouping and accuracy. I am hoping for a lot better groups with the scoped rifled barrel.
Jack

[littlejack]

I received the Hastings barrel in the mail yesterday. It really does look nice. Has the made in France stamp, and the bore looks new. The matt finish matches my 870 receiver, and the barrel fits like a glove.
The loads that I tried with my smooth bore was a Remington lowbrass hull. It has the one piece body with the low basewad.
I loaded 25 grains of Herco, the WAA12 wad with the Lyman 525 grain slug. Recoil was lite, as the velocity is only 1249fps, per my Lyman 4th edition.
Anyone have a good load they want to share, that they have had good success with in a rifled barrel.
Now I need to get a scope of the barrel. Probably a light 4x of some sort.
Opinions and input welcomed.
Jack