RCBS Tube Bullet feed die. Cast Bullets?

[A pause for the COZ]

Well I got my Bullet feed die the other day. Specifically the RCBS 82358 for 45acp.
There is some info on it here. Its one of the new products for 2012.

http://outdoorwriters.atk.com/resource_library/nps/RCBS_NPS.pdf

I purchased this die in the hopes of using it to feed cast bullets on my progressive.

I basically found little to no information regarding this particular die set.
RCBS does sell a bullet feed die set that covers multiple calibers, but states it is intended for jacketed bullets only.

This set differs from the multiple caliber set with the inclusion of a caliber specific sleeve that go's in from tube then tube holder.

That is what is suppose to allow it to feed cast bullets. RCBS claims that it does.

I first tried to use it to feed jacketed 45 acp bullets. This works as advertised.
I fed 100 of them with out a hick up. Set up is simple as you just raise the ram with a case in it into the die. Then turn the die until you see the bullets drop a slight bit.

For jacketed bullets at $29 I rate it as a good buy.

But I couldn't care less if it feeds jacketed fine. I shoot cast pills.

Well does it?

Ahhhhh NO. It does not, at least my cast bullets any way.

50/50 NRA lube is a sticky mess in this thing, but also noted that the sleeve is perfect for jacketed but is too narrow for cast at .452. They were hanging up in the sleeve and not getting to the plastic fingers.

The ones that did get to the fingers did not feed ether.
When a case enters the die it forces open these plastic fingers that allow the bullet to drop onto the case mouth.
As you lower the ram and try to exit the die. There is a catch on the fingers that is intended to prevent the following bullet from passing.
This catch lands perfectly inside the lube groove holding the bullet in the die.

I will keep after it some. Maybe will figure out a way. But right out of the box??? Forget about it.

Any one else have this die working with cast?????

[W.R.Buchanan]

Could you open the sleeve up a few thousandths? As far as the lube being a mess, the only cure for that is to use a harder lube that doesnt' make a mess and gum up the works.

I would think these two mods would get you up and running.

Randy

[A pause for the COZ]

I polished up the sleeve so that they go through it ok. The fingers are the main cause for angst.
No way around the fact that they are to short to get past the lube groove.
I will see if I can get a photo.

[Any Cal.]

I was looking at those the other night, thanks for the input. I hope you get it sorted out.

[A pause for the COZ]

here are the parts to the die. The snap ring( that will be lost soon), The plastic fingers, The sleeve and the die body.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8440.jpg

This is generally what happens the bullet is stuck on the fingers cant go down or back up.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8442.jpg

Here you can see where it catches on the lube groove while trying to exit the die.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8443.jpg

Here is another image with a hard cast bullet with hard lube. Same issue.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8441.jpg

It came with two sets of the fingers so I did try to trim them a bit to allow for bullet release. Did not really help it much. Just made it so the whole tube of bullets would just fall through the die.

Not a huge deal, I will live. just kinda had my hopes up. Disappointed that it did not work.
I am not too sure what they used to be able to claim it will work with cast bullets. Because I am no engineer but after checking it out for 10 minutes its obvious it will not work.
If those fingers were lets say a 1/6 of an inch longer they would work.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So the idea here is that the case opens the feed fingers and allows a boolit to fall into the mouth of the case, and then when the case is pulled out the fingers catch on the lube groove instead of allowing the boolit to pass thru?

This wouldn't work with a jacketed bullet with a cannelure either.

If the feed fingers were a little longer it might work as the lip on the fingers would be past the lube groove, but that would only be the case for "that" type of boolit, one with more lube grooves or the groove higher up would have the same problem.

What pushes the boolit down into the case mouth? Is it just the downward pressure of the column of bullets waiting for their turn?

If this is the case there is really no way that the feed fingers could be designed for more than one type of bullet.

Any time you are relying on a variable pressure to execute a feeding maneuver the action will be unreliable. For obvious reasons.

I'd say that if this die allowed you to partially seat the bullet so it could be withdrawn from the die and not hang up on the feed fingers it would work. If the bullet is just sitting on the top of the case and relying on the downward pressure of the bullets in teh tube above to push it out of the die then the overall design of the die is poor as it depends on a specific set of circumstances to operate at all, and albeit un-reliably. Any foreign matter introduced into the mix puts it over the edge by increasing the pressure needed to eject the bullet. Since the pressure is variable, but in the wrong direction, IE it goes down instead of up, the wqhole concept operates simply in too narrow a window of circumstances.

I'd take a look at a Dillon bullet feeder and see how they do it. It probably works perfectly.

Also, I have always thought the Lee manual bullet feeder was a good solution. It has the column of bullets above a stop. The feed fingers are on a slide which is spring loaded out under the column and when withdrawn from dispensing a bullet the next bulllet is captured by the feed fingers, like a toothpick being stripped from the inside of a set of tweezers.

On the in stroke the bullet is placed above the rising case as it enters the seating die and the bullet is pushed out the top of the fingers, and the fingers are spread apart by a taper on the bottom of the seat die..

This system will operate with many different types of bullets as long as they are the same OD size range, and they have different feed fingers for many different size ranges of bullets which are basically just plastic tweezers and cheap.

Point is this system does not rely on a specific set of circumstances to function correctly, the only variables are the size of feed fingers which you can change, and the overall adjustment of the device.

It appears that the RCBS system is limited to very narrow set of operating perameters.

My .02

Randy

[Any Cal.]

It may work with a bit more flare on the case mouth to open the fingers up farther.

[A pause for the COZ]

It may work with a bit more flare on the case mouth to open the fingers up farther.

I thought that too, Flared them as far as it would go. No go.

I have it sitting for now. When I get another idea I will run back and try it.

I have a few mechanical upgrades floating in my head. Will see if one peculates.

[Gliden07]

I wonder if it would work with the Lee type bullet mold with the micro groves for there Alox lube instead of the single grove type cast bullet? Also what are you sizing bullets too? Most of the jacketed bullets Ive seen are .451 not .452. Not that I'm even close to knowing what I'm doing just observations on my part. Also have an intrest in this die my next loader is probably gonna be a Hornady LNL and I was thinking this would be a great mod to do with a Lee 4 tube case feeder?

[jkpq45]

Subscribed so I can catch any updates--very interested!

[Gliden07]

Check this link out I know its a Hornady die set but it looks like the fix might work with the RCBS too??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJro27cx0yA

[A pause for the COZ]

Check this link out I know its a Hornady die set but it looks like the fix might work with the RCBS too??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJro27cx0yA

Nice Video. Dont think it will work reliably with the RCBS set up.
The problem with the RCBS is that the little catch fingers contact the bullet when it is dropping exactly where you do not want it to contact the bullet.
Right in the lube groove.

Its obvious the Hornady system is superior in every way.
I wish Hornady offered the collets prebored to different diameters.
I almost always take too much off the 1st time I try stuff like that.

Pretty sure when I get the itch again I will order a Honady bullet feed and keep the RCBS for jacketed as it does well with those.

I also need to find something to coat the bullets with. that 50-50 lube is pretty soft. I have lots and lots of it. SO wont be changing lubes.
Maybe some mica powder or some thing just to give a little crust on the lube. Dont know still thinking about it.

[A pause for the COZ]

So the idea here is that the case opens the feed fingers and allows a boolit to fall into the mouth of the case, and then when the case is pulled out the fingers catch on the lube groove instead of allowing the boolit to pass thru?

This wouldn't work with a jacketed bullet with a cannelure either.

If the feed fingers were a little longer it might work as the lip on the fingers would be past the lube groove, but that would only be the case for "that" type of boolit, one with more lube grooves or the groove higher up would have the same problem.

What pushes the boolit down into the case mouth? Is it just the downward pressure of the column of bullets waiting for their turn?

If this is the case there is really no way that the feed fingers could be designed for more than one type of bullet.

Any time you are relying on a variable pressure to execute a feeding maneuver the action will be unreliable. For obvious reasons.

I'd say that if this die allowed you to partially seat the bullet so it could be withdrawn from the die and not hang up on the feed fingers it would work. If the bullet is just sitting on the top of the case and relying on the downward pressure of the bullets in teh tube above to push it out of the die then the overall design of the die is poor as it depends on a specific set of circumstances to operate at all, and albeit un-reliably. Any foreign matter introduced into the mix puts it over the edge by increasing the pressure needed to eject the bullet. Since the pressure is variable, but in the wrong direction, IE it goes down instead of up, the wqhole concept operates simply in too narrow a window of circumstances.

I'd take a look at a Dillon bullet feeder and see how they do it. It probably works perfectly.

Also, I have always thought the Lee manual bullet feeder was a good solution. It has the column of bullets above a stop. The feed fingers are on a slide which is spring loaded out under the column and when withdrawn from dispensing a bullet the next bulllet is captured by the feed fingers, like a toothpick being stripped from the inside of a set of tweezers.

On the in stroke the bullet is placed above the rising case as it enters the seating die and the bullet is pushed out the top of the fingers, and the fingers are spread apart by a taper on the bottom of the seat die..

This system will operate with many different types of bullets as long as they are the same OD size range, and they have different feed fingers for many different size ranges of bullets which are basically just plastic tweezers and cheap.

Point is this system does not rely on a specific set of circumstances to function correctly, the only variables are the size of feed fingers which you can change, and the overall adjustment of the device.

It appears that the RCBS system is limited to very narrow set of operating perameters.

My .02

Randy

Pretty good take Randy. I had my doubts when I ordered it. I suspect when they claimed it works with cast bullets they mean bullets that do not have a lube groove.
Even using perfect bullets for it. Every thing would have to be perfect for it to work.
Reliability of operation would not happen.

If I could figure out a way to get the LEE system to operate. that would be a good thing to try.
Could still keep the powder check die too.