Want to learn

[Master Chief]

Hello the camp :)
Been reloading for a little over 20 years (pistol, rifle and shotgun)and have toyed with casting but have to say I don't really get it. I have a small lee pot, a few molds and about 100 lbs of wheel weight ingots.
My confusion mainly stems from 2 points.
#1 How to get those nice shiny bullets too drop. Does it take a while to get the temp set correctly or to learn that ?
#2 Sizing bullets. Some say to others say they drop the bullet and use Johnsons Paste Was or Lee liquid Alox to lube with no size? What is a new guy to think ?
With the cost of projectiles these days I have got to get this figured out.
Here is what I would like to start making :
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/198535/lyman-1-cavity-bullet-mold-429640-44-special-44-remington-magnum-430-diameter

Along with others.

Thanks to all for the help.

[williamwaco]

What is a new guy to think?

Chief:

If you ask a dozen members the same question you will get at least 8 different answers.

Why? How do you tell which one is correct?

They are all correct. They are telling you what worked for them. It may or may not work for you. Reloading is as much art as science. You cannot buy a blueprint that will work for all cases. Pick the ideas that seem to work best for what you are trying to do and for the tools you have to work with - try them. If they don't work, pick another.

Getting the temperature right is not rocket science.

But first, be absolutely sure you have the mold clean and degreased.

This method is specifically for Lee six cavity mold.

I start casting and cast as fast as I can without being wreckless or careless. I fill and dump without even looking at the bullets. I don't even drop them on my drop pad. When the sprue puddle remains liquid for two or three seconds, I mover over and drop on the drop pad. I keep casting fast until bullets begin to frost. Then I slow down to a normal cadence. Cast, wait for sprue to harden, dump, leave mold open while inspecting the newest bullets, then close the mold and repeat. This procedure takes about fifteen to thirty fillings of the mold depending on whether it is aluminum or iron. ( oh yes, during this warm-up, pour as large a sprue puddle as possible, The large sprue puddle will transfer a lot of heat to the mold.

Depending on your mold and your natural body rythms, you may need to speed this up or slow it down.

See:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/how_to/mold_warmup.htm

[deltaenterprizes]

Welcome to the forum!
Clean degreased mold preheated on an electric hot plate with alloy at about 700 degrees will get you off to a good start.

[Firebricker]

Welcome to the forum. This is the best place to learn IMO. As far as temp I like it pretty hot with a new mould to get it turning out good boolits then 700 to 750 when thing are going good. Mould prep is important especially with Lee there is a good thread on "Lee Menting" and moulds come with break in info. The Lyman cast bullet manual is a good reference to have on hand.

The least expensive way to size is a Lee sizing kit and tumble lubing. It works well but kind of messy. Next step up would be Lyman or RCBS lube sizer. then Star and Ballista Cast are the Cadillac,s of sizing. And as you noted if they drop close enough to chamber you can hand lube. Keep us posted on your progress and any problems and someone will have the answer.

I've learned more from the members on this site than anywhere lots of people who enjoy getting someone started so if you run into any hiccups ask away. Good Luck, FB

[JIMinPHX]

Shiny boolits usually mean that your mold is still a little on the cold side, especially if you are not getting good fill out.

You need to measure the diameter of your raw boolits & the groove diameter of your barrel & maybe your chamber diameter before you will be able to decide if you will need to size your boolits or not.

[Cherokee]

Welcome to casting !! Slug the barrel of your 44 so you know what size you realy need, usually .001 or .002 larger than the barrel bore size. If the mold drops boolits of that size, your are GTG. If smaller, out of luck. If larger, you may need to size. First get your mold ready, then cast some and see how it goes. Once you have some good cast you also need to see if they will fit the cylinder throats. Follow advice given above and come back with more questions.

[Bob Krack]

#1 How to get those nice shiny bullets too drop. Does it take a while to get the temp set correctly or to learn that ?
#2 Sizing bullets. Some say to others say they drop the bullet and use Johnsons Paste Was or Lee liquid Alox to lube with no size? What is a new guy to think ?
With the cost of projectiles these days I have got to get this figured out.
Here is what I would like to start making :
429640-44-special-44-remington-magnum-430-diameter
Master Chief,

I respect your motivation and your humility. Good signs of intelligence and/or at least good sense!

The Lyman .44Mag Devastator is one fantastic mold supplying a terrific boolit.

I'm getting to a point, I hope... This mold has a little (or a lot) steeper learning curve than a simpler mould would have. I would bet someone could help you get started either by phone or face to face and maybe even assist in starting with a little easier to cast with mould.

Any problem that comes up (or nearly any) can be solved through fairly simple procedures. It just makes me wonder how many new casters we have never had since the first attempt was so frustrating.

Good luck Master Chief,
Bob

[just.don]

You don't mind if I call you by your first name do you?

Ok, good.

Master,
If you add location info to your profile, someone might invite you over for a practice session on their set up.
Short of that, any advice I might offer has already been covered.
Do spend a bit of time @ the link Mr. Waco gave. His site has helped me understand a few things.

[41 mag fan]

One thing to remember is it will be a learning curve. Do a search on here for the questions you might have...and just like William said, you'll get 8 different answers from a dozen people.
But those answers will follow in a general line with each other with just a smidge of variations.

One thing about casting, if you try and fail, you can remelt and try again.

[Lizard333]

I asked a lot of the same questions you asked when I first started. My advice, read. I probly read posts for three months here before pulling the trigger, pun intended.

If your serious about wanting to get into this hobby, start getting your lead pile bigger. The sources are drying up, and finding free lead is getting hard.

Next, think about your setup. I'm the kind of individual that believes in making one quality purchase once, than several **** ones, and the a quality purchase. I went with the Lyman 4500 lubrisizer. You can size and lube, one step. It ones with a heater so you can use carnuba red white label lube. They are one of our sponsors, it needs a little heat.

Next, you need to worry about the quality and constancy of your boolits, not how shinny they are. I, like many others here, prefer a lightly frosted boolit. This will make the boolit look duller, but helps to insure you have your mold temp right, and you are getting good fill out. I use a cheap hot plate, and preheat my molds on that, so I get good boolits from the very first cast.

If you haven't already, download the Fryxell handbook. I is in a sticky at the top of the forum. From ingot to target..... It's free, and a very good wealth of information.

Mainly, have fun, and remember, you can alway melt your screw ups, and try again!

Good luck!

[292]

Welcome, I'm relatively new myself. I started with a Lee TL430-240-SWC, simple easy and cheap. Folks on this forum are the greatest.

[44man]

Good to have you here. [smilie=s:
Location, location. If you were close, I would have you casting pronto.
Someone will be close to you.
What we need is a book. Everyone write his methods for a chapter.

[waksupi]

One of the best things to do, is to read the stickies in all of the forums. It will take some time, but will be worth every minute.

Welcome aboard.

[GP100man]

As mentioned early in the thread , a clean preheated mold & hot melt !!

Most noobees seem to want to start pouring with everything too cold & problems abound !

I suggest a good lead thermometer will help alot !!

Also on the steel HP molds keep the pin in the mold as much as possible to keep it from cooling off.

If anywhere close to Myrtle Beach SC. give a holler ,I`ll take time out to melt summtin !!!

&Welcome to the Madness !!!!

GP

[John Boy]

Master Chief ... pretty much all there is to learn how to cast good bullets in this article. Read it, follow the steps and the bullets will be quality ...

The 8-Phase Casting Cycle (http://www.longrangebpcr.com/8Phases.htm)

[Master Chief]

Thanks to all and I'll update my profile.
I reside on the mid-cities area of DFW, Tx.
Anone close want to get together some time and show me the ropes.
I am also a member of Arlington Sportsman Club south of here if any fellow club members are on here ?

[btroj]

There has to be someone near you who casts. Sadly, I am not one of them.

I learned fest hand from my then future father in law. Have me a good grasp of the basics and concepts so when I decided to experiment I had the base of knowledge that let me learn.

[1Shirt]

Good advice! Find a caster from this forum who is willing to have you sit in on a casting session or two.
1Shirt!

[canyon-ghost]

Welcome to the boolit place!

Casting lead bullets, I plug in the electric pot (stays full when not in use) and let it melt down for around 20 minutes. I wash my hands and get coffee.

When it gets hot enough to sink the ladle in (liquid as can be) I skim it, maybe burn the top off with candle wax and skim. Teaspoon with 1/4" holes drilled through it works. I set the ladle in and let it heat up. It'll sink and fill with liquid when hot enough.

When the ladle is hot, I start pouring lead into a mold. I throw away the first dozen casts (maybe more) until the mold is hot enough to make bullets without lots of lines and wrinkles. I keep it closed and full of lead as much as I can to hold in heat. When I knock the sprue loose and open, I drop the bullets and close 'er up real fast. Don't let the heat escape!

From there, it's all the way to the bottom of the pot, dipping and dropping bullets as fast as it will happen. A person just uses his eyes, the sprue on top turns from mirror-like to dull silvery when it cools, and 15 seconds later the bullets are hard enough to fall out. It's a rhythm, a certain pace. When the pot is empty, you get a 10 minute break to heat lead into liquid again (wash my hands, get coffee).

Sizing isn't scary, you can use standardized sizing for any new gun, worn ones cause more troubles if the bullets are undersize. Other than that, the invisible 1/1000th of an inch doesn't do all that much.

Having used a Lyman hollowpoint like that, I can tell you this : Be patient, do your bullet making some slow morning when you have nothing else in mind. A single cavity hollowpoint is going to take 3-4 hours to get a few hundred bullets to work with. I just pulled up a stool and sat down, it was that slow! Have a pair of pliers in case the bullet sticks to the pin (heat eliminates that). Relax, enjoy, experiment a little. Casting hollowpoints doesn't happen fast.

Good Luck,
Ron

[MikeS]

Hi. Welcome to the forum! While the mould you linked to is a nice boolit, I would suggest that to get started you stick to a plain (non HP) boolit. For much less money I would suggest you get a Lee 6 cavity mould (while the 6 cavity moulds have a learning curve of their own it's much less than learning an old style HP mould). The mould you linked to will cost you $100.00 when you add a set of Lyman handles to them, this mould:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/656156/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-tl430-240-swc-44-special-44-remington-magnum-44-40-wcf-430-diameter-240-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter

with a Lee handle will run you about $52.00 from Midway. The Lee tumble lube designs tend to cast closer to their intended diameter than Lee's conventional lube designs, so with the addition of a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox (or a Lee sizing kit which includes the LLA) you're good to go. I'm suggesting a 6 cavity mould rather than one of their 2 cavity moulds simply because it's made much better than their 2 cavity moulds. Many people start with their 2 cavity moulds (I did too), have trouble which is caused by a problem with the mould, but being new they don't know that, figure that this casting stuff is just too hard, and so stop casting.

With this mould, or any other, you really should preheat the mould using a hotplate (rather than by sticking it on top of the melting pot) to get it up to temp. Another thing you really should get if you don't already have it is a thermometer. With a thermometer you don't have to guess how hot your alloy is, you'll know right away. As to what temp you should have your alloy at, a good starting point is 100F hotter than the point that the pot is fully liquid. I rarely have my alloy over 700F as there's nothing to be gained by heating the alloy hotter, the more important temp is the temp of the mould. If the mould is too cold you'll get nice shiny & wrinkled boolits that aren't filled out properly. If the mould is too hot you'll get boolits that are extremely frosted and possibly not filled out properly. At the proper temp the boolits will have a very slight frost to them, more like a satin finish, and will be properly filled out.

Assuming you're going to be shooting these out of a revolver, you really should measure the cylinder throats, and then size the boolit to be at or .0001 over that size. If the boolits drop at .430 and your cylinder throats are .429 - .430 you might not want to bother sizing them, just tumble lube them then load and shoot. You might want to get a Lee sizing kit that's the same size as your cylinder throats, and size your boolits even if they're at or close to the throat size (as long as they're larger, not smaller) simply to avoid having any that are too large. It's fairly easy for a person new to casting to cast some that are larger than most (not closing the mould all the way), and you wouldn't want to find out that you have some too large when they won't load into your gun!

I'm recommending Lee equipment not because it's the best, but because it's fairly inexpensive, so in case you decide you don't like casting (hard to believe but it does happen) you won't be out lots of money, and if you decide you like casting and want to upgrade, again you haven't spent lots of money. If you like casting, even if/when you upgrade to better moulds, sizers, etc. it doesn't mean that you'll never use the stuff you started out with.

If you like casting, and once you feel like you've gotten casting with a solid mould down pretty good, and are ready to move on to making hollow point boolits, there are better ways to make them rather than the old Lyman removable HP pin type moulds (like the one you linked to in your first post). There are a few different styles of multi cavity HP moulds, from the Cramer style HP moulds made by Mihec to the RG style HP moulds made by NOE to the 'Inset Bar' type of HP conversions made by Erik of www.hollowpointmold.com where he modifies a mould you supply into being a HP mould. Erik also sells Lee 2 cavity moulds that he's modified into HP moulds. Any of these HP methods work better and quicker than the old Lyman style which only lets you cast a single boolit at a time, and is harder to do as you must keep the HP pin hot between casts or you'll have problems.

Sorry for the long post, I hope I haven't left out anything! If you have any questions about anything I've said, please ask, either here, or in a PM, I'll be happy to answer them, and help out any way I can.

[Bob Krack]

If "Master Chief" is an actual title, "Master" is an insult and "Chief" is usually a title reserved to very close friends. Master Chief (Petty Officer) is the highest ranking non-commissioned officer in the USNavy.

Kinda like Sarge and Master Sarge.

Can you say? Master Chief? Let us be friends and proper about it. I'm happy with "Chief" but have absolutely NO hesitance to use "Master Chief". (Or Ray or Jay for that matter)... :mrgreen:

Some of ya'll might remember I went by the handle of "Village Idjit" and most addressed me as "VI" or as "Village" But the handle was a play on words and both needed to be mentioned to have any possibility of play.

Bob

[Bob Krack]

MikeS,
You are 100% or more right as I was trying to say. In spite of the fact that - in my opinion - most Lee 6 cavity molds are a joy to work with, a one or two cavity mould (and he says he has some molds) eliminates all of the issues of multi, HP, special purpose moulds.

Start with one ya already got, conquer it, then move on to bigger and better (?) things.

Bob

[Grandpas50AE]

Thanks to all and I'll update my profile.
I reside on the mid-cities area of DFW, Tx.
Anone close want to get together some time and show me the ropes.
I am also a member of Arlington Sportsman Club south of here if any fellow club members are on here ?

Master Chief,
As you can see from my signature, I live in Waxahachie, so that is about a 45 minute drive from where you're at. I will send you a PM with my phone number so you can call me, and I'll be happy to get you started casting - just wait until the 100+ temperatures are gone since my casting area is not air conditioned. I'll send you a PM sometime tomorrow.

[David2011]

Awesome boolit! Welcome!

Lots of casters shoot "as dropped," lubed but not sized. Even if the boolits are the right size for your barrel, pushing them through a sizer will assure that they are already round when they enter the barrel. If you were talking about powder puff .38 Special plinking loads my answer might be to tumble lube and shoot but that's a serious boolit being launched from a serious gun and you will probably want good accuracy. Besides, if you go with the Devastator, in order to put the gas checks on the boolits they will have to be run through a sizer.

You really might want to heed the advice of those who recommend another mold as your first and add the HP Devastator once you have a good feel for casting. You don't need or want a very hard alloy for the hollow point. If too hard, it will shatter instead of expanding.

David

[runfiverun]

wow,,,, i had forgot all about bob's handle change.
excellent a mentor.
seeing boolits cast and a short explanation will make things go lot's faster.

[Master Chief]

Thanks Granpa.
+1 on the 100 degree heat.

Thanks again to all.

[Master Chief]

OK thanks to all.
Using a Lyman mold that throws a little .38 148 gr wc (actual weight around 143) I was able to cast aprox 115 bullets before I ran out of time. They look good and when my son comes in next week will try and post some pics. Good advice on the HP mould-Thanks.
Now to get ahold of a lubri-sizer :)
Thanks again for the help. I intend to load these for powder puff .38sp loads out of a 6" S&W 686.
Hopefully they will shoot good and not lead the barrel too bad.
Feel like I am on my way finally.
Did I say Thanks Guys !!!

[Bill*]

There must be a bunch more of you guys close to him....after all, how big can Texas be? [smilie=1: :rolleyes:

[MikeS]

Master Chief: If you're looking for a lubrisizer, and will primarily be casting handgun boolits, you might want to consider buying the more expensive Star or Ballisticast sizers. The Lyman / RCBS / SAECO sizers are 'in/out' sizers meaning you put the boolit on the sizing die, then the operating handle pushes in into the die on the down stroke, then pulls it back out on the up stroke. You then get to remove the sized/lubed boolit from on top of the die, and place another unsized on in it's place. You also need a different 'top punch' for each boolit you're casting, unless they're all flat points, then you can use a simple flat top punch for all of them. The Star / Ballisticast sizers are designed that the boolit passes completely thru the die, so you place a boolit into the die, then when you pull the handle it pushes the boolit into the die where it gets sized and lubed. when you pull the handle up the boolit stays in the die, you put another boolit into the die, and when you pull the handle again it sizes and lubes that boolit, and ejects the previous boolit thru the bottom of the die into a waiting box you place below the sizer. This has several advantages. First is speed, it's much quicker to just keep putting boolits into the die, pulling the handle, then doing it again and again, etc. without having to pickup the just sized/lubed boolit, and placing it in a container. It's also neater, as you don't need to handle the boolit once it's been sized/lubed, and if you're using heat to soften the lube, before the lube has fully rehardened. Another possible problem with the in/out sizers is that when using fitted top punches (rather than a flat one) if the sizer isn't in 100% alignment, the top punch can distort the boolit. With a thru sizing sizer (Star / Ballisticast / Lee) generally you put the boolit in nose first, and a flat punch pushes the boolit by it's base, so it's self aligning into the die.

If you want to get the advantages of nose first thru sizing, but don't want to spend the money for a Star or Ballisticast, I would recommend the Lee sizing dies. The Lee sizing dies fit in a standard reloading press, so don't require something separate being mounted to your bench. Another good thing about the Lee sizers is again because they're mounted in a standard reloading press, most presses have more leverage than a sizer has, so if your boolits are way oversized, or cast from a very hard alloy, they'll be easier to size with the Lee dies than any of the separate lubrisizers. The only down side to using the Lee push thru sizing dies is that they don't lube the boolits, so you'll either have to use Lee's tumble lube, or pan lube the boolits. If you're doing a large number of boolits it can actually be quicker to use the Lee sizing die and pan lubing the boolits than using an in/out sizer. The same is true if you're tumble lubing the boolits, except that once done you'll need to let the boolits dry for a while (overnight is best) before loading.

Another option for push thru sizing is available from forum member 'The Professor'. He makes a die body that mounts into a standard reloading press, and lets you use a Lyman sizing die in it. You only use the actual sizing die portion of the Lyman 'H&I' dies (I don't recall if it's the H or I part), it gets inserted into the die body upside down (you'll be pushing boolits UP into it, rather than DOWN into it like normally done in a sizer), and again it will be pushing the boolits all the way thru it, rather than in/out. I have one of his die holder sets, as well as several Lee sizing dies, a Lyman 45 sizer (one of Lyman's earlier sizers), and a Star sizer. I primarily use the Star, but I use the Lee sizers and the Professor's setup also. The Lyman 45 gets the least use of any for all the above mentioned reasons.

I bought the Lyman 45 sizer before I knew of all the benefits of the Star sizer, and it's real easy to get a Lyman sizer, then get lots of sizing dies for it, and then not wanting to loose your investment in dies to switch to a Star, so it's really better to just save up some money, and get the Star first, and never have to deal with an in/out sizer. This is where the Professor's setup really shines, if you've already got a large collection of Lyman sizing dies, and want to switch to nose first sizing, by getting his die body setup (it comes with a special adapter to go in the ram where the shell holder normally goes and a push rod goes into it to push the boolits thru the die) then you can use all your existing dies in it. Another supposed benefit of using his setup (although I'm not real sure of this) is that because the Lyman dies have a much larger sizing area (the Lee dies actual sizing area is only about 1/8" long, the Lyman dies are mostly ALL sizing area) you get less 'spring back' of the boolits because they're squeezed down to size and held there longer than with the Lee dies. Again, I don't know if there's any truth to this, I've never tested it myself, just passing along something I read myself.

[popper]

Master Chief - I'm on the other side of town, used to work in H-E-B, hated that 183 drive but fortunately I was going the right way. What equipment do you have and what do you need or think you need for cast? I have the Lee 20-4, Lee moulds, some Lee push thru sizers and various expanders. Not as experienced as many here but happy to help if I can. That amounts to telling you what works for me. If you can cast in this weather you're tougher than me. So is that E-9?

[just.don]

If "Master Chief" is an actual title, "Master" is an insult and "Chief" is usually a title reserved to very close friends. Master Chief (Petty Officer) is the highest ranking non-commissioned officer in the USNavy.

Bob

Having spent several years of my life working with some and for some other Master Chiefs, I assure you that I am intimately familiar with the use of the title.
Master Chief is what one calls them.

" My name is Master Chief Whatever, but you may call me by my first name, Master."
I don"t know how many times I heard that while I was in.

Much as a Senior Chief was normally referred to as "Senior", as in "Senior, what do you think?" , a lowly Chief was referred to as "Chief" by those above and below him in rank. Believe me, the use of the title had NOTHING to do with friendship.
My comment was not meant as an insult. It was meant for what I hope, and feel confident Master Chief took it to be, a fellow sailor trying to make him feel welcome.

And if it had been taken as an insult, I feel confident that he is a quite capable of pointing that out to me.

Master, I am glad you found someone close to help you out.

[Master Chief]

Thanks MikeS and Popper and everyone. I ordered a Lee sizer today from Midway for around 15 bucks. I have about 225 bullets made now and just need to size them so I think I have it all figured out. It's all about "temp" ain't it :)
Anyone I am on my way and after I get them sized I'll let you know how they shoot.
I do more reading on here than posting as there is still alot to learn.
All the Best.
David

[Grandpas50AE]

Thanks MikeS and Popper and everyone. I ordered a Lee sizer today from Midway for around 15 bucks. I have about 225 bullets made now and just need to size them so I think I have it all figured out. It's all about "temp" ain't it :)
Anyone I am on my way and after I get them sized I'll let you know how they shoot.
I do more reading on here than posting as there is still alot to learn.
All the Best.
David

Yep, it is mostly about Temp, clean molds, and clean alloy. Get that combination of 3 things right and you can cast plenty of nice boolits. Several other factors are involved when it comes to shooting them, but that has been covered in so many other threads there's no need to repeat them here.

Enjoy the new addiction.

[Gliden07]

I cast my first 300 Boolits this week. I have a small Lyman pot and Lee mold. I just followed the directions on the mold cleaned with Detergent dryed and smoked the mold. Cast about 15 min before the mold and my technic was up to getting it to work the way it was suppose to. Once it was all up to temp and I figured how to use small Lee Laddle the Boolits came out of mold fine. I also used a wooden stick to gently tap the frame of the mold to get them to drop.