Just ordered a 358 Winchester! [Archive]

Elkins45

08-03-2012, 10:36 AM

Bud's has the Ruger Hawkeye stainless synthetic for $451 right now. I thought I didn't need another rifle but getting a factory built gun at that price in such a great cast boolit cartridge made me click the 'Buy' button yesterday.

I was contemplating buying a donor Savage lefty and a 358 barrel from Midway. I would still prefer a lefty, but I guess I could always buy a Ruger lefty in 308 and perform a barrel transplant if I want. The new Savage would have been almost $400, plus $200 for the Midway barrel. They only sell it as a kit with a barrel nut wrench and headspace gauges, all of which I already have.

Anyway it bought it was a good deal on a new gun and I can't wait to get it next week and start flinging some lead. I wish it were a lefty, but I guess I can't have everything.

Artful

08-04-2012, 11:41 PM

358 is a great cast boolit cartridge.

flhroy

08-05-2012, 12:40 AM

I was thinking of looking for a lefty savage to convert to 358win but I now have another brain storm. I'm now thinking of converting a savage 99 in 308 to 338 federal. that should be a simple barrel swap but nothing is ever simple.

waksupi

08-05-2012, 01:54 AM

.308, .338 Federal, .358 Win, all same cartridge.

Elkins45

08-05-2012, 07:21 AM

.308, .338 Federal, .358 Win, all same cartridge.

That's one of the many attractions of the .358. I already have 1000 rounds of surplus military 7.62 brass so it will be easy ( and cheap) to make new brass for my rifle whenever I need it.

MJR007

08-05-2012, 11:23 AM

I really like my 358 and it really likes Varget. Mine is a 700 with a Douglas tube. Once you pull the trigger on game you will be hooked for life. Good luck to you.

Larry Gibson

08-05-2012, 01:54 PM

Suggest the RCBS 35-200-FN....awesome cast bullet in 35s.

Larry Gibson

rockrat

08-05-2012, 04:58 PM

flhroy--just sent it to Jesse at JES reboring and have him make it into a 338 federal

Elkins45

08-05-2012, 05:38 PM

Suggest the RCBS 35-200-FN....awesome cast bullet in 35s.

Larry Gibson

I already have a big pile of them waiting for my dies to get here.

Larry Gibson

08-06-2012, 03:16 PM

I already have a big pile of them waiting for my dies to get here.

:drinks:

Larry Gibson

Elkins45

08-06-2012, 06:12 PM

I picked up the rifle today. It's a light little booger! Guess I need to wait for jacket weather before I start shooting it with full power hunting loads.

The trigger is SWEET! :) Best Ruger trigger I've ever experienced.

softpoint

08-06-2012, 11:09 PM

MJR007

08-07-2012, 04:22 PM

JesterGrin_1

08-08-2012, 01:35 AM

I glad to hear about the trigger. I just got back from Hart a M77 Mark II (308). The trigger is a little over 8lbs! I will be bring it to my smith this weekend. Even with your lite rifle the recoil will not be that bad.

One thing I have learned over the last couple of years about myself is to never ever give personal comments about Recoil lol.

As it was nicely pointed out to me that if someone asked me how a certain rifle would recoil and I said the recoil is not bad at all then to everyone else it will kick like a Mule lol. If I say well the Recoil is pretty heavy that means nobody else should even try it lol. Unless they like pain. :)

I learned this at the Shooting Range when I was shooting my Marlin XL-7 made into a 35 Whelen with a good load of RL-15 and the Speer 250Gr Hot Core. A fellow I know from the shooting range was admiring the rifle and asked if he could shoot it and how the recoil was. And I said it is not much just about the same as a 30-06. So he jumped on the bench and took 1 Shot and said Holly Heck this thing kicks MUCH harder than an 06 lol. Everyone has there own perception of Felt Recoil.

Just like when I see threads on the Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag and ask about Recoil I have no idea what in the world they are talking about. As for me the recoil was almost non existent and that was shooting the Lee 310Gr with a full load of H-110 or W-296.

But I will say I do not care who you are but an H&H Side by Side in 600 or 700 Nitro will wake you up at the bench. :)

A good person to ask on this site about the 358 Winchester would be Ben. I hope to be able to do some shooting with my Newly built 358 Winchester on a Savage Action.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Stevens358.jpg

Elkins45

08-08-2012, 02:07 PM

Just like when I see threads on the Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag and ask about Recoil I have no idea what in the world they are talking about. As for me the recoil was almost non existent and that was shooting the Lee 310Gr with a full load of H-110 or W-296.

There are a lot of personal physiology and individual gun fitting factors that influence recoil. I'm relative insensitive to it, and in fact I kind of enjoy hard kicking handguns, but there are certain guns that seem much worse than others. Ironically the Marlin 1894 is one of them for me.

I don't know if it's because I'm a lefty but that particular rifle makes my face hurt when I shoot it! There's something about the stock design that smacks my cheekbone and really gives my head a good whack. The felt recoil on my shoulder doesn't bother me at all, but the overall experience isn't positive at all. Contrast that with something like my 50 caliber Savage smokeless throwing a 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps--the 50 cal is much more pleasant to shoot, even though they weigh pretty close to the same and it has much more muzzle energy.

MJR007

08-08-2012, 04:40 PM

Recoil I agree with you both. I will rather shoot this 358 over this 308 any day. Both are very good rifles made for different things. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u54/MJR007/rifles2012.jpg

9.3X62AL

08-08-2012, 11:53 PM

The right caliber! I have 2 358Winnies, both Remingtons with Shilen barrels. One is a Model 600, the other a 700. I load three boolits for them, the 200 grain RCBS, 245 grain Saeco and a Lyman 286 grain, (358009). They shoot all of them almost equally well. I use Varget, 4320 and 3031 in them.

If your 358s have the 1-16" twist rate common to the caliber.......how well does that twist stabilize the heavy 286 grain Lyman #358009? My 9.3mm has a 1-13" metric twist (3 turns/meter), and does well with the .366" 286 grainers. That faster twist rate and its potential to do better work with longer bullets caused me to choose the 9.3 x 62 over the 35 Whelen or 358 Winchester in 2002. Goodness knows cases would be an easier and cheaper proposition for either of the 35s. I don't think a game animal can tell the difference between the 3.

softpoint

08-09-2012, 06:23 PM

The Shilen barrels I have in my Remingtons have 14 inch twists. They have shot anything I have put in them well. Myself and a friend had these built at the same time. He later wanted to trade his away and I knew it was a very good shooting rifle. That's how I wound up with 2 0f them! And I like them so well I want to keep them both! The 700 is 20 inch barrel, HS stock, The 600 is 21 inch barrel, Lone Wolf stock. It is substantially lighter (mostly the stock) but shoots just as good as the 700.:cbpour: Some barrel makers only offered a 16 inch twist .35, but I see now Douglas is12 inch! Probably a bit overkill, as 14 inch will stabilize 300 grain bullets

softpoint

08-09-2012, 06:50 PM

There are a lot of personal physiology and individual gun fitting factors that influence recoil. I'm relative insensitive to it, and in fact I kind of enjoy hard kicking handguns, but there are certain guns that seem much worse than others. Ironically the Marlin 1894 is one of them for me.

I don't know if it's because I'm a lefty but that particular rifle makes my face hurt when I shoot it! There's something about the stock design that smacks my cheekbone and really gives my head a good whack. The felt recoil on my shoulder doesn't bother me at all, but the overall experience isn't positive at all. Contrast that with something like my 50 caliber Savage smokeless throwing a 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps--the 50 cal is much more pleasant to shoot, even though they weigh pretty close to the same and it has much more muzzle energy.

Recoil doesn't bother my shoulder much, but I have had it give me some pretty bad headaches sometimes. I Remember a couple of rifles that were pretty obnoxious to shoot. One was a Ruger #3 carbine in 45/70. Since everyone said that those would handle the same loads as the #1, we figured the thing to do was to load up about 53 grains of 3031 behind the jacketed 500 grain Hornady. The little open sighted carbine with steel buttplate probably weighs less than 6 lbs.....You can figure it from there.... The other was my lightweight 416 Weatherby. I decided I did not like muzzle brakes, especially when hunting. So I took it off to see if point of impact would change. 117grains of RL22 with 400grain Hornady RN. I found out rather quickly that that particular rifle needs it's muzzle brake. :grin:

felix

08-09-2012, 06:59 PM

12 twist will make the 35 guns shoot 600 yards though a hurricane. Why shoot in those conditions? Stay with the 14 twist. ... felix

Artful

08-09-2012, 07:55 PM

One thing I have learned over the last couple of years about myself is to never ever give personal comments about Recoil lol.

Recoil is a funny thing - I have people tell me that an AR15 kicks - I have shot a Howa .30-06 that tried to do dental rearrangement on me - I have had days where I shot 40+ 375 weatherby magnums without issue and one day where I shot it without giving it respect and had the scope to the head inside of 3 shots.

You can have many variables in subjective recoil. :wink:

Elkins45

08-09-2012, 08:19 PM

12 twist will make the 35 guns shoot 600 yards though a hurricane. Why shoot in those conditions? Stay with the 14 twist. ... felix

Ruger says this one has 1-12. I don't really plan to ever shoot anything much heavier than 200 grains out of it.

1Shirt

08-09-2012, 08:39 PM

I need another rifle like I need more holes in the head, but if I JUST HAD to HAVE ANOTHER, it would have to be a 358.
1Shirt!

waksupi

08-09-2012, 08:42 PM

I shoot the 290 gr. Bator Heavy at 2170 fps with good accuracy in my 1-12.

white eagle

08-09-2012, 10:04 PM

softpoint

08-09-2012, 10:24 PM

Here's my pair. Tied with the 45/70 as my fav. caliber...

9.3X62AL

08-09-2012, 10:25 PM

1-12" or 1-14" makes better sense to me in the 35s, I was afraid the 1-16" twist would handicap the Whelen a bit, maybe limit it to 250 grain spitzers. Not like those are lightweights, but I'm prone to harping on the ideal at times.

softpoint

08-09-2012, 10:30 PM

I made a 358 win in a model 70 compact......... just about perfect
been shooting mainly 250 gr's out of it but do have some 280 gr'rs that I load for the heck of it
also load the rcbs 200's as well but prefer my 265 gr Accurate Molds Boolit..mainly use a2015br and cci caps seems to be the most accurate powder I have tested to date....best of luck with yours

I was wanting a 358009 mold for quite sometime, but after I have had it for awhile, there is really nothing I need to do with my .358's that the 245 Saeco won't do. For that matter the 200 gr,. RCBS. It's just that I think I'm shooting a .30 caliber when I think 200 grain. The 200 RCBS is as accurate as any.

JesterGrin_1

08-09-2012, 11:03 PM

Sorry to say I have not had a chance to hunt with my 35 Whelen yet with a Cast BOOLIT. But I did use the Speer 250Gr Hot Core with a good load of RL-15. And I have to say it was a bit much lol. I hit about a 230LB Hog at about 125 yards through both shoulders. It left a hole on the off side shoulder the size of about half my fist. And threw blood 10 feet out and about 3 feet wide.

And due to one thread it was Both Dead Right There and Fell Right There lol. Okay if you have to pressure me it was more of a Flip Over Right There and Dead Right There lol. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/HOGonetwentyninetwelve.jpg

I hope that if I get time I am going to try the Hornady 200 Gr FTX and the BRP 360-220 GC in the .358 Winchester with either or both H-322 and IMR-3031 and might even try some TAC.

My .358 Winchester I call Kick Stand :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Stevens358.jpg

waksupi

08-09-2012, 11:12 PM

Quit shooting those darn jacketed bullets in a .35 bore. They are MADE for cast!

JesterGrin_1

08-09-2012, 11:15 PM

Quit shooting those darn jacketed bullets in a .35 bore. They are MADE for cast!

Brother I know I know lol. I just simply Ran out of time before having to be able to hunt. So I went the Quick and Dirty Rout on the 35 Whelen. :)

The .358 Winchester I am still kicking around a bit. Since the barrel only has about 20 test rounds through it of jacketed rounds I was thinking maybe I should shoot some more Jacketed through it or just jump straight into the BRP 360-220Gr GC.

I have the 358009 Mould. But to be honest I am not really sure for what I do if I would gain anything in the .358 Winchester over the BRP 360-220 GC for what I hunt.

JesterGrin_1

08-09-2012, 11:26 PM

One more Thing. When I Had the 35 Whelen built I did not know as much as I do now and here is why one needs to be honest with themselves and there needs.

I had the 35 Whelen built due to how good the cartridge is and the availability of Brass and how that round can be loaded to take anything in the U.S.A. and probably beyond. As in you can load from light Pistol Bullets to up and over 300 Gr bullets for pretty much anything that walks or crawls. But with the 24 inch barrel and heavy Mag Contour barrel it is long and cumbersome in many situations and areas where I hunt. Do not get me wrong I will never part with the Rifle as it is darn accurate and very capable.

But I had the .358 Winchester built on a Stevens short action (Savage) with the same Heavy Mag Contour barrel but cut to 20 inches since the 358 Winchester does not really need the extra barrel length. And cut the stock off enough so that total pull length with the recoil pad is 13 in. So It will be much more maneuverable through thick stuff or to simply carry in the Truck and so on and so forth. And the .358 Winchester is only lacking by all accounts behind the venerable 35 Whelen by about 200 FPS from all of the information I have gathered to this point. And will cover my hunting needs very neatly.

I forgot to add that the .358 Winchester is also easy to make from say the .308 Winchester but it is kinda expensive if you purchase .358 Winchester brass. It does burn less powder than the 35 Whelen yet will shoot the same bullets depending on twist as the 35 Whelen. And it will do all this in a lighter and more compact firearm. :)

waksupi

08-09-2012, 11:27 PM

I imagine you will find happiness with the lighter boolit, unless you want to stretch your range some more. Those heavy ones carry remarkable well at longer ranges.

JesterGrin_1

08-09-2012, 11:29 PM

I imagine you will find happiness with the lighter boolit, unless you want to stretch your range some more. Those heavy ones carry remarkable well at longer ranges.

I am with you on that. Since I did shoot some BPCR I did learn that weight is King for long range.

JesterGrin_1

08-09-2012, 11:36 PM

Elkins45 I wish to Commend you and your purchase of a Rifle Chambered in one heck of a universal round the .358 Winchester. :)

Elkins45

08-09-2012, 11:50 PM

I shoot the 290 gr. Bator Heavy at 2170 fps with good accuracy in my 1-12.

290 gr. Bator Heavy? How might one acquire such a mold?

waksupi

08-10-2012, 01:23 AM

290 gr. Bator Heavy? How might one acquire such a mold?

Just kinda got to wait until someone runs another group buy, most likely.

JesterGrin_1

08-10-2012, 03:57 AM

290 gr. Bator Heavy? How might one acquire such a mold?

I will tell you what. If you get to the point that you wish to try a Heavy I have the 358009 That you could give a shot.

Nobade

08-10-2012, 08:07 AM

In my own 358 with an Adams & Bennett 14 twist barrel I have found the #358009 from NOE to be the most accurate of everything I have tried. Pushed to just below 2100 fps it is just phenomenal, with most shots cutting each other at 100 yds. A 6 inch steel hanging disc is in great danger at 300M, so I figure it's plenty good for hunting.

I just throated it out a bit so that boolit will seat right to the base of the neck. Ended up right at 2.8" so would still fit in a short action. Haven't shot it much since then except for last weekend where I found out the added powder capacity doesn't matter since loaded with more than 40gr. IMR3031 it starts to throw shots and lead the barrel. But that boolit weighs 295gr. with gascheck and lube, so it should be sufficient for anything even at fairly low speed. I keep having to remember it's like a 30-30 but with nearly twice the boolit weight!