cold bore shot way out of group

[RU shooter]

I have been having this problem for about 2 yrs now the cold bore shot will be way out from POA at 100 yds. approx.3"-4" " up and 1" to left consistently, This happens no matter what load I use cast or jacketed and now matter what speed within reason (plinker loads are not as bad ) The rest of the shots will all go into nice tight little groups for the rest of the day.The rifle is a Rem. model 600 in 35 rem about 6 yrs ago I sent it back to remington to have a new trigger installed and in transit or at Rem. the original walnut stock was cracked. Rem replaced it with the only thing they had in stock which was a laminated model 660 stock, They bedded the front of the action the lug and first inch of the chamber about 2inch back from stock tip the put a blob of bedding to give some upward pressure and center up the barrel in the channel ,When it came back it shot just as good as ever then it started this cold bore flier stuff like I said about 2 yrs ago on targets I dont mind but this in my primary huntin rifle . So How should I proceed to correct this? more pressure at the barrel end ? Less ? try to float the barrel? The rub is it shoots so darn well now after that first shot of the day I hate to mess with it. And Im not really all that good at that type of thing anyways. I though It was maybe a clean bore that caused it but it will do the same thing with a fouled bore . I wouldnt mind so much if it was say only an inch out but its 3"- 4" Thoughts anyone?

[John Boy]

Thoughts anyone?Put the 1st round into the berm and then shoot for POI with your known settings

[geargnasher]

What are you cleaning the gun with?

Try to free-float the barrel, and make sure your action screws are tight.

Gear

[RU shooter]

Put the 1st round into the berm and then shoot for POI with your known settings
Yes that works with paper tagets but those deer usually don't stand around too long after I shoot that fouling shot :bigsmyl2:

Cleaning routine hasnt changed Just regular Hoppes on a patch .Front screw is tight back is firmly snugged same as always.

[5shotbfr]

if it shoots to the same spot consistently why not just sight it in for a cold bore shot ?
but before you do that you should be sure its a cold bore problem and not a clean bore problem .
if its a clean bore issue just shoot a couple foulers a day or so before hunting

i have a few rifles that will shoot the first one or two rounds away from normal poi when clean ,
not far out but an inch or so

but i have a 22-250 that youd be lucky to hit the berm with the first 2 rounds after cleaning

[Marvin S]

Adjust sights for the first cold barrel shot. I do this for my 25-20s.

[shotman]

get rid of the 600. and go to 700

[Jack Stanley]

I had a 788 that was like that when I used fast burning powders like red dot . A switch to a slower powder in this case IMR 4198 fixed it's problem . I don't recall if it had the same problem with jacketed bullets though .

Jack

[RU shooter]

get rid of the 600. and go to 700 I dont think Ill ever part with this one,Ive grown quite fond of that light little carbine even with that crooked bolt handle . IMO its just about the perfect eastern woods rifle.

No its not a clean bore issue ,Tried that already

Sight in for the cold bore shot? I sorta do that now I split the difference when I sight in .At the ranges I normally hunt 50-100 yds it works OK but I still dont like doing it that way, I like to know where I aim thats where the bullet hits.

Faster vs. slower powders, As I said unless Im shooting real light loads like 1000 fps pistol bullets with bullseye or unique, It makes no matter what powder or load I use My practice load is a 200 gr PB saeco #351 bullet and 12 grs of 2400 Hunting load is a near a full case of H335 or 4895 with a 200 gr cast or jacketed make no difference at 20K or 40K psi ???

Ill try more fore end pressure as that the easiest route take first.

[rhbrink]

I would first try changing the seating depth of the bullet. Move it in and see what happens then move it out and see what happens. If nothing changes here then I would free float the barrel. If that doesn't help piller bed the action, I've seen more that one glass bed screwed up and had to be redone. Sounds like the problem to me.

[5shotbfr]

if you cant resolve the issue ,i personaly would sight in for a cold bore shot . i would rather be sure of my first shot going where i aimed then any subsequent shots

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds like a bedding problem to me. Id glass bed the action and float the barrel. If that doesnt do it you can easily put the pressure point back.

[Gtek]

If it were mine I would chase the front end by removing the front pressure. That is IMO the easy one of the bunch to back up on. Take out to float it and if it goes south, just shim back. Gtek

[swheeler]

I would guess a bedding problem also. Remove the barreled action from the stock and make sure there is clearance on the bedding at the bottom of the recoil lug, if this is ok add a shim under the front of action until the barrel is free floating, a piece of plastic milk jug cut to fit will work. If the barrel floating doesn't cure it, remove that shim and place it under the barrel at the forend(add upward pressure) when you find which one cures it make the permant repair with accraglass. If none of the above work start looking at that plastic trigger guard/floorplate assembly, the area around the screw holes compresses and deforms, maybe screws are bottoming out. Shims of plastic-milk jugs-business cards-or cc, work fine until you have found the problem and can be manipulated at the bench.

[GT27]

In my 40 years I've never heard of a 1st shot being so far away from subsequent fouled shots,usually a inch or two at most,if that!Somethings moving causing that.I agree with swheeler,this ones a prime candidate for some bedding, and free float the barrel to tighten everthing up!I would slug the bore also to eliminate that from the equation! GT27

[Larry Gibson]

float the barrel

Make sure the rest of the bedding si solid and even. You can always add pressure back under the barrel.

Larry Gibson

[John Boy]

This happens no matter what load I use cast or jacketed and now matter what speed within reason (plinker loads are not as bad ) The rest of the shots will all go into nice tight little groups for the rest of the day.
First round - flyer. Rest - tight little groups.
So glass bedding - floating the barrel, etc ... why if the 2nd shot is accurate. These recommendations are plausible if all shots were creating poor groups.

For some reason, the barrel harmonics are not the same as the 2nd, etc shots. Me? I'd play with the barrel's null point. If that doesn't work, some barrels like dirty bores and other don't like oil in the bore. Try a tight patch before the 1st. If that's a No Go ... leave the bore dirty from the last shooting session.

None of the above? I'm clueless except try some lead bullet rounds

[RU shooter]

Thanks all,I'll experiment with some of the different things mentioned and see if it helps.

Tim

[MGySgt]

I believe, Like Larry says, it is your bedding has gone south. The first round is setting the barrel/action into the stock. Subsequent rounds are from the new position in the stock. When you stop shooting the barreled action starts to go back to the cold barrel position.

This movement could be so minute you can't see it.

My son had a similar problem with a Rem 700. The barrel would walk to the left in the barrel channel and start touching the barrel channel throwing the shots all over the place.
Let the gun sit for a few hours and the action would go back to where it was. Moved slowly I think it took about 6 hours or so for it to go back. Bedded the action and it shoot great.

[David2011]

about 2inch back from stock tip the put a blob of bedding to give some upward pressure and center up the barrel in the channel

That phrase sounded an alarm for me. Center the bore up in the stock with bedding? That sounds like building a problem in to me. The bedding may have gone south but I'm a believer in free floating. If, after it's free floated, it still shoots erratically, some upward pressure may be appropriate but it had to be upward only and without any side pressure. I would do that by bedding the action first and then come back and bed the barrel at the tip of the fore end with no pressure. That will give a proper base for shimming.

Is this a cold bore or a clean bore problem? Shoot one round and open the chamber. Let it return to ambient temperature and see if the second shot on a cold barrel goes in the same place as the first one. If it does, don't clean the barrel beyond running a clean, dry patch through it until you're done for the season assuming noncorrosive ammunition, of course.

David