Hornady L-N-L has it's Limitations

[omgb]

OK, so after loading many thousands of rounds of 32-20, 45 ACT and 38/357 mag on my L-N-L without so much as a burp, I decided to give it a try on 38-55 and 45-90. The results were less than encouraging. All told, I loaded over 500 rounds of mixed 38-55 and 45-90 but it didn't go easily. First, the cases are so tall that they wobble a tad as the ram rises. So much so that I had to guide the case into the sizing die by hand. That really slowed things down. Second, when using 400+ grain bullets in the 45-90 and 250 grain bullets in the 38-55 I also have to guide the bullet into the seating die or it will hnag up. In short, the time savings over using my T7 is so small as to be non-existant. I would be curious to know if these large cases work better on the Dillon 650 or 550.

What I finally decided to do was to insert one case and cycle it through all four stations before adding another case. This was the only way I could efficinetly get the case into the sizing die and again, into the seating die. This sort of negates the advantage of a progressive press over a turret press like the T7.
I'm wondering if all of this is due to the long cases and the straight sides. Perhaps a bottle neck cartridge works better. Any one know for sure?

[1hole]

You have found one of the reasons I have no use for either progressives or turrets. The turret in my old six station turret press is usually locked down, making it a really funny looking single stage.

Of couse, I really don't bulk shoot so I don't need to bulk load either. I have no trouble knocking out a couple hundred rounds plenty fast enough with my single stage presses.

[dromia]

I think your analysis of the problem is probably right.

I load mainly rifle calibres on my LnL with 8 MM probably being the largest and it deals with these no problem.

To be honest I've never thought of loading my larger, and especially BP cartridges on the press, I uaually use either my T7 or my Ultra Mag.

The reality is that when these presses were designed 45-70, .577" Snider etc were not part of the design brief as they are still not what one would call common cartridges in the mass markets eyes.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

This is just an idea, as I don't own either of the cartridges you are using, but I would look at other brands of dies. It may be you find a set of dies that feed those cases better into themselves than the brand you are using.

And I agree with dromia. I suspect the current offerings of dies for the cartridges you are loading for aren't designed to use with a progressive press for the exact reason he stated. I know I have zero problems reloading up to 30-06 on my LnL. In that cartrdige and on my progressive, my Hornady dies in 30-06 work much better than my Lee dies do. The Lees I find I have to guide a good bit more if I use them on the progressive. I don't load for the cartridges you mention.

I don't think it's your press though. I think it's your dies. They aren't designed to be used with a progressive press. In most cases that's not a big deal, but with cases such as you describe, it could very well be. You may need a sizing die with a mouth designed to feed that case a little better or perhaps a different seating die. These don't matter much with pistol cartridges, but can with rifle cartridges.



Regards,

Dave

[Hunter]

What dies are you using? Is the shell plate spring installed correctly.
I am not an advocate of loading rifle rounds on a progressive press but I have cycled 30-06 through my L-N-L without trouble.

[BruceB]

I have a friend here who loads exactly ONE rifle cartridge on his Dillon 550B.

That one happens to be the .45-2.875 Sharps', aka the .45-110. It works great and he has no complaints.

My biggest cartridges are loaded in my All-American turret press, these being the .404 and the .416 Rigby, followed by the .45-2.1 (.45-70). I have no problems with any particular cartridge in any of my presses, but that's probably due to long habit in running them.

The handgun dies I use in the Dillon are either Dillon dies, or later-vintage RCBS with MUCH greater mouth radii than the early types with sharp-edged carbide inserts. Rifle dies are all RCBS, barring one or two sets from other makers.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

The more I think about it, the more I think the issue is a mouth radiius issue. I don't know if Dillon makes dies for your application, but I do know their dies, while not cheap, are specifically designed for the oddities of running on a progressive press. I would certainly look into Dillon dies in this situation. I"m not sure what other manufacturer to recommend, as Lee dies, while good dies, are not quite as good for running on a progressive. They work much better on a turret or single stage.

Regards,

Dave

[omgb]

The 38-55 cases are being loaded in Hornady .375 Win dies. The 45-90 is being loaded in Lyman dies. My guess is that if I had the mouths opened slightly the problem would go away ... at the sizing station any way. Bullet seating would still be a pain as the long 520 grain Postel slug still needs to be guided into the seating die.

The truth is I don't really want to load either of these in such large numbers that I need to go progressive. I was just experimenting for kicks and giggles. I ran some more 45-90 last night and simply ran one case through all five stations before putting another case into the shell plate. This is still faster than using a single station press and it's even a tad faster than using my turret press so if effeciency is the goal this is in fact more effecient.

That being said, I'm going back to using my turret press for both of these in the future. The principle reason being that I prefer to hand prime the cases for accuracy reasons. I shoot both of these rounds at long range and am concerned more with loading the most accurate round possible rather than loading the largest quantity in the least amount of time.

In .357 mag or 45 ACP however I want volume. Likewise the 32-20 and the .223. So far, the L-N-L does these in full progressive without even a burp so I've got no complaints.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

RJ,

I'd love to get you to run an experiment if you would. Here's the experiment:

1. Load both cartridges on the Hornady LnL, as you've described and shoot them, recording the loads and the accuracy results.

2. Load both cartridges using the turret, then the single stage, using the same loads. Shoot them and record the results on each.

Also, check runout and other such measurements on cartridges loaded on each press.

3. Report back how things went.

I'd be real interested in knowing how the results go.

Regards,

Dave

[omgb]

I may just do that. I already know that my 45-90 loads on the turret press are more accurate than those on the L-N-L but not for the suspected reasons. On the turret press, I use a duplex load of BP and RL 7. On the Hornady press I am forced to use straight smokeless (AA 5744) and it just isn't up to the same degree of accuracy. I would need a 6th die station and a second powder measure to load BP on the L-N-L. BP requires a sizing die, an expander die, a charging die, a compression die and a seating die. If I duplex the load I'd need one more station for a second charging station.

I think though, a fair test of accuracy would be the smokeless loads I use for both my 38-55 and my .375 Win. I use RL 7 in both and the same custom 250 grain LBT bullet. I'm in the midst of moving right now so extra shooting time is limited. I may get a chance to try that this summer though. if I do, I'll post the results.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

RJ,

I'll be watching for when you post it. Nothing like doing something interesting to see how presses and other equipment really do. On top of that, it gives you an excuse to shoot a bit more and that's never a bad thing.

Regards,

Dave

[Shawrco]

I may just do that. I already know that my 45-90 loads on the turret press are more accurate than those on the L-N-L but not for the suspected reasons. On the turret press, I use a duplex load of BP and RL 7. On the Hornady press I am forced to use straight smokeless (AA 5744) and it just isn't up to the same degree of accuracy. I would need a 6th die station and a second powder measure to load BP on the L-N-L. BP requires a sizing die, an expander die, a charging die, a compression die and a seating die. If I duplex the load I'd need one more station for a second charging station.

I think though, a fair test of accuracy would be the smokeless loads I use for both my 38-55 and my .375 Win. I use RL 7 in both and the same custom 250 grain LBT bullet. I'm in the midst of moving right now so extra shooting time is limited. I may get a chance to try that this summer though. if I do, I'll post the results.

Just a thought, on the duplex loads you could drop the smokelss in a powder thru expander die and if you are using the LNL powder measure, the BP drops through the CAPD setup. Most folks (myself included) use a drop tube for the BP, you may be already doing that. Also if you are hand seating the bullets w/no crimp, that would free up a die station... just thinking out loud.

[August]

I may just do that. I already know that my 45-90 loads on the turret press are more accurate than those on the L-N-L but not for the suspected reasons. On the turret press, I use a duplex load of BP and RL 7. On the Hornady press I am forced to use straight smokeless (AA 5744) and it just isn't up to the same degree of accuracy. I would need a 6th die station and a second powder measure to load BP on the L-N-L. BP requires a sizing die, an expander die, a charging die, a compression die and a seating die. If I duplex the load I'd need one more station for a second charging station.

I think though, a fair test of accuracy would be the smokeless loads I use for both my 38-55 and my .375 Win. I use RL 7 in both and the same custom 250 grain LBT bullet. I'm in the midst of moving right now so extra shooting time is limited. I may get a chance to try that this summer though. if I do, I'll post the results.

One of the virtues of the LnL is that you can use two powder measures, allowing you to duplex automatically, as it were. Size and decap on your single stage in preparation for tumbling. Then, First stage is Smokeless and prime, second stage is holy black with belling through powder die installed, third stage is compression, fourth stage is bullet seating and fifth stage is taper crimp. Viola!!!!!!!!!!! Accurate, consistent duplex loads from a progressive.

[50 Caliber]

Loaded thousands of .308win, 30/06, .223remington and 45/70 Gov. with nary a wobble on my trusty old Dillon 550B. And won some shooting matches with these loads.:-D

[Throckmorton]

I have loaded 45=70's on my 550b,and if I recall correctly they did wobble some,but if I went at a slower pace then with pistol calibers,it worked just fine.I don't need mega output for my shooting so slowing the pace to allow the cases to find their way into the sizing die was no biggy,and takes very little extra time

I do have some older non radiused dies for one pistol caliber,and the brass occasionaly will hangup on the mouth of the sizing die,which I suspect is what is happening in your case.

[njmj]

I load 40-65's on a LNL. Yes I do have to guide the case into the sizing die and yes I do have to guide the snover bullets into the case but it's still a heck of a lot quicker than a single stage press. Marshall