Is .45 the most versatile caliber?

[Single Six]

From bird shot to one ball for varmints or two balls for defense to .454 casull in a rifle to match or exceed .45-70 power....I can't think of anything more versatile.

[Tracy]

Have you ever read any of Jim Taylor's articles about the .45 Colt? Some of them are at Paco Kelly's Leverguns website, but Jim used to have a sixgun website with more of them. Of course, I don't have to tell you about John Linebaugh. You already know him, don't you? :Fire:

[500Smith]

500 S&W.

Plinker through hand cannon. 275gr -700gr. 850fps-2000fps.

To me that’s versatility.

[dragonrider]

I'm more on the side of 30 caliber. Large range of boolit weights, large range of cartridges. Velocities for ho hum to holy freaking frijoles that's fast. How many diffferent rifles are chambered is some 30 caliber?? and some handguns. I think 30 has the edge.

[btroj]

Ummm, a 30 cal rifle will do well too. Uses less lead and powder too. Economics is always a factor.

This is an arguement with no answer. Use what you like, that is all that matters.

[David2011]

I have a lot of pistols in the safe and a fair collection of rifles. If I had to get it together before "it hit the fan" day arrived and was told to pick one handgun and one rifle, I would probably take my Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt and my M-1 Garand. The Garand might be a little heavy duty for some purposes (small game) but I would never be under-gunned. The .45 Colt will handle anything from rattlesnake shot loads to big feral hogs and black bear. The Garand would provide both long range power and the rapid dispensing of defensive rounds as required.

David

[Single Six]

500 S&W.

Plinker through hand cannon. 275gr -700gr. 850fps-2000fps.

To me that’s versatility.

Too much overkill methinks.

[Single Six]

I have a lot of pistols in the safe and a fair collection of rifles. If I had to get it together before "it hit the fan" day arrived and was told to pick one handgun and one rifle, I would probably take my Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt and my M-1 Garand. The Garand might be a little heavy duty for some purposes (small game) but I would never be under-gunned. The .45 Colt will handle anything from rattlesnake shot loads to big feral hogs and black bear. The Garand would provide both long range power and the rapid dispensing of defensive rounds as required.

David

I agree. I was thinking about the 45LC or 454 in both a handgun and a rifle would be pretty versatile.

[Single Six]

I'm more on the side of 30 caliber. Large range of boolit weights, large range of cartridges. Velocities for ho hum to holy freaking frijoles that's fast. How many diffferent rifles are chambered is some 30 caliber?? and some handguns. I think 30 has the edge.

I tend to agree, though there isn't much for handguns. I guess the downside to 45 is lack of brass, unless you include ACP.

[fcvan]

Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt, H&R Classic Carbine in .45 Colt. I've enjoyed mild loads of .454 round ball to warm loads of 300 grain round flat. Pretty versatile indeed. Frank

[Gunnut 45/454]

Single Six
I used to have the 454 Casull pistol/rifle combo! But the SRH went down the road - but I still have the Lever gun in 454 Casull. Also have a 45 LC Win 94. Loaded correctly there is anything on this earth I wouldn't shoot with either. :mrgreen:

500Smith

Yea thats great if you got a set of wheels to roll it around![smilie=1:

[Tracy]

I love my .45 Colt revolvers and consider a 4 5/8-inch Blackhawk (large frame) a great choice for all-around use. I have loaded everything from round balls at BB gun velocities to 325 grain boolits in loads that outperform the .44 Mag with less pressure, and I have killed snakes and rats with shot loads both in .45 Colt brass and in .410 hulls cut down to fit the cylinder.

As time goes by though, I become more and more a fan of the lowly .38 Special. For one thing I have thousands and thousands of cases. For another the .38 delivers killing power far beyond its paper ballistics, while keeping the lead and powder bill very low. Lastly, it is available in smaller guns than the .45 Colt, and an excellent quality .38 is far cheaper to buy than just about any .45 Colt. So I'm not planning on getting rid of my .45s, but my old model Flat Top .357, unsullied by any transfer-bar "upgrade", gets more use.

Skeeter wrote something along those lines about his old Blackhawk .357, too.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

push comes to shove, I have a stainless Para P-14 in 45acp and my trusty DPMS Panther LR model in 308Win.

Otherwise, my 4" Colt Anaconda in 45LC is the Perfect Packing Pistol.

Rich

[btroj]

Where in the original post does it specify handguns?

I will take a 30 cal rifle over a 45 handgun in most situations any day.

[Bret4207]

35 cal in handgun or rifle.

[Beerd]

35 cal in handgun or rifle.

35 cal in handgun and rifle.

just sayin'
..

[Single Six]

Where in the original post does it specify handguns?

I will take a 30 cal rifle over a 45 handgun in most situations any day.

Well, I didn't spec it, but relegating to rifles-only negates significant versatility. I agree .30 wins in rifles.

I live in the desert but we recently got some rain. I went out for some very informal mud ballistics testing, just for fun. From .22 CBs to shotgun. The biggest and deepest hole was .30-06 180gr soft point. A 3" slug would probably have been bigger, but I neglected to bring some. 125 '06 grain was a big shallow hole. 350 grain 45 colt was not a large hole, but deep, it and the 180 gr TC 357 penetrated the mud so deep the holes filled up with water. The most surprising was .22 magnum. The holes from it were almost as big as the lighter bullet .357 holes. That's a potent little round.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I don't want more versatility, I want more GUNS! What happens if I tell my wife that a single gun will do everything???

[David2011]

This thread just reminded me of the articles in the early 1980s. Seems like every magazine had a new "Hottest load for the Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt" every month. My buddy Mac and I had to try them all. They were so brutal that I still have a box full of 290 grain .45 boolits that may be saved until I leave this world just to remind me of what stupid loads can do to me. The gun may handle it but even when I was young those loads took a toll on tendons and ligaments. The Blackhawk is just too light to dampen the recoil of loads that belong in a heavy .454.

David

[btroj]

I agree David. I have rip snorting 45 Colt loads too. I have a box of 50 or so left. When I decide I am up to it I shoot 10 per range trip to empty the brass.

45 Colt just works well without extreme velocity. I like a 290 at 900 just fine.

While it doesn't say much about "versatility" but I shoot far more 35 cal bullets than I do 45. A 357 with 38 loads is just so darn shootable. Great gun for new shooters too. What more do I really need?

[429421Cowboy]

While i think that 99% of jobs i use a handgun for can be done very well with a heavy flat boolit going somewhere around 900-1000fps, the .45 Colt offers so much in range of power it is near the top of the list for versatile rounds in my mind.
I only have a Super Blackhawk right now so my work is all done with the .44 mag, which can do almost everything the .45 can, although at slightly higher pressure for some loads. I wouldn't feel too hard off with a companion rifle in either .44/.45 to match my handgun and would feel pretty comfortable for most situations.
The .357 is also near the top, but i can't seem to decide if i can place it above the .45, it is easier to do smallbore stuff with a bigbore than it is to do bigbore stuff with a smallbore.

[Tracy]

The most surprising was .22 magnum. The holes from it were almost as big as the lighter bullet .357 holes. That's a potent little round.

I agree with you about the .22 Mag. Around here it is the favorite round of deer poachers. Part of the reason is that it does a good job of killing deer. The rest of the reason is that the DNR outlawed the use of centerfires for small game hunting, as well as rimfires for deer. Then they basically made a law that if you are out in the woods with a centerfire rifle, you are deer hunting. Even if you're not.
So the poachers do the obvious thing: go out with their .22 Mags, and if they are approached by the game warden, they are squirrel/rabbit/varmint hunting. If they see a deer they kill it, then leave it there while they take their rifle home. Later they just happen to stumble across it while walking in the woods, with no gun anywhere around.

I like the .22 Hornet because I can get that same performance in a reloadable round with a cast bullet and 4 grains of Red Dot or Promo. And if I happen to kill a deer in my late-season garden with it (in season, of course), it is legal because it is a centerfire.

[Single Six]

This thread just reminded me of the articles in the early 1980s. Seems like every magazine had a new "Hottest load for the Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt" every month. My buddy Mac and I had to try them all. They were so brutal that I still have a box full of 290 grain .45 boolits that may be saved until I leave this world just to remind me of what stupid loads can do to me. The gun may handle it but even when I was young those loads took a toll on tendons and ligaments. The Blackhawk is just too light to dampen the recoil of loads that belong in a heavy .454.

David

Mine is 7-1/2", pretty heavy, doesn't bother me much with 350s at 900. At the same time, what do you need to shoot, a train? The load is overkill, I use it to bust concrete for fun sometimes. It leaves other handguns and some rifles in the dust for that. But if I ever needed to shoot a moose or grizz...

[Single Six]

I agree with you about the .22 Mag. Around here it is the favorite round of deer poachers. Part of the reason is that it does a good job of killing deer. The rest of the reason is that the DNR outlawed the use of centerfires for small game hunting, as well as rimfires for deer. Then they basically made a law that if you are out in the woods with a centerfire rifle, you are deer hunting. Even if you're not.
So the poachers do the obvious thing: go out with their .22 Mags, and if they are approached by the game warden, they are squirrel/rabbit/varmint hunting. If they see a deer they kill it, then leave it there while they take their rifle home. Later they just happen to stumble across it while walking in the woods, with no gun anywhere around.

I like the .22 Hornet because I can get that same performance in a reloadable round with a cast bullet and 4 grains of Red Dot or Promo. And if I happen to kill a deer in my late-season garden with it (in season, of course), it is legal because it is a centerfire.

I was more surprised than I should have been. I once shot gallon water jugs and almost got the same target activity from the WMR as the 357. Much more than .38 or 9mm FMJ. Jugs blow up and splash instead of the bullet just poking a hole.

[Tracy]

I was more surprised than I should have been. I once shot gallon water jugs and almost got the same target activity from the WMR as the 357. Much more than .38 or 9mm FMJ. Jugs blow up and splash instead of the bullet just poking a hole.

Have you ever tried .357 in a rifle? It is a whole different level of power compared to the same round in a revolver, especially if you load to original specs (as opposed to current specs that load to 9mm Luger pressure). It is very close to .30/30 in power, especially with 180-200 grain bullets. That is one of the reasons I mention .38 (and .357 by inference) as an all-around cartridge.

[Single Six]

Have you ever tried .357 in a rifle? It is a whole different level of power compared to the same round in a revolver, especially if you load to original specs (as opposed to current specs that load to 9mm Luger pressure). It is very close to .30/30 in power, especially with 180-200 grain bullets. That is one of the reasons I mention .38 (and .357 by inference) as an all-around cartridge.

I have not tried it, but I see your point. Would it not be marginal for a big critter though?

[Tracy]

I have not tried it, but I see your point. Would it not be marginal for a big critter though?

Not so much, with heavy bullets. It basically comes down to penetration and hitting the right spot. The sectional density of a 200 grain .35 caliber bullet is the same as a 320 grain .45 bullet, so given the same velocity it should penetrate to the same depth. That is why W.D.M Bell was able to kill so many elephants with a 7x57 loaded with 175 grain military ammo.

I'm not a believer in the kinetic energy theory when it comes to big stuff. Put a bullet in the right spot, and the animal is going to go down. If it is for bear protection, I want one of my .45 Rugers, loaded hot. Or better yet, my .45/70 Guide Gun. But the biggest bear ever killed was killed by an Indian woman in her backyard, with a .30/30. I also read about a park ranger who was attacked and mauled by a grizzly a few years ago, and he killed it with his .357 service revolver. One round broke its shoulder, slowing it down. Another round up through its chin killed it, IIRC.

[fcvan]

Tracy, here is a link to that story about the game warden. There were a series of photos which showed the situation. Game warden survived, bear did not. I'm sure my .357 would be better than poking a bear with a sharp stick, but all things considered I'd rather carry my Vaquero in .45 Colt. Frank

http://thegreatwhitehunter.wordpress.com/bear-release-gone-very-very-wrong/

[square butte]

I am not sure ( could not find it in the link) But I think the guy in trouble is Louie Kiss (not sure of the spelling) who worked for Montana Fish & Game. This happened in the early 80's on the Flathead Nat For. - Just across the river from Glacier Park. If it is Louie - He killed the bear with several shots from his .357 mag - I think a S & W model 66. Interesting to note that he retired not to long after he got out of the hospital. I was working up country on the district the day that happened. It was an interesting day. Waksupi would know the story.

[Bret4207]

I have not tried it, but I see your point. Would it not be marginal for a big critter though?

How big a critter you talking? There's darn few grizzlies or brown or polar bears east of the Mississippi. Anything that is east of the Miss. will fall readily to a properly placed shot from a 357 rifle within range.

Discussions like this rarely end well. I'm happy with a 357 and 35 Whelen.

ETA, I'm making the assumption you meant "caliber" and not cartridge.

[btroj]

Exactly Bret.
This is a somewhat silly arguement. We can debate and hash things forever.

I personally shoot far more rounds at the range Han in the field so economics takes precedence. A 357 rifle/pistol combo s hard to beat.

A 30 cal rifle is also good.

Then again, that is just my opinion.

[Tracy]

Exactly Bret.
This is a somewhat silly arguement. We can debate and hash things forever.

I personally shoot far more rounds at the range Han in the field so economics takes precedence. A 357 rifle/pistol combo s hard to beat.

A 30 cal rifle is also good.

Then again, that is just my opinion.

I don't see it as silly, nor an argument. From my viewpoint, Single Six started a great round-table discussion about a subject that never gets old. :popcorn:

Bret, I did mean cartridge because those hot .357 loads were originally loaded in .38 Special cases. Elmer Keith did it with his .38/44 loads, and Skeeter Skelton used .38 Special cases in his 358156 loads, too.
But your point is well taken. If we consider .35 calibers in general, there is nothing that walks on this continent or any other that a .35 Whelen can't handle.

[btroj]

It creates a lively discussion but that is all. It is sort of like the "if you could only have 3 powders" discussions.

The OP specified caliber, not cartridge. Also did not mention reflect, handgun, or either.

In a strict survival situation I would actually go with a 12 gauge. Shotgun will give far more meat than anything else and slugs will stop about anything.

That should put a wrench in the works.

[David2011]

Mine is 7-1/2", pretty heavy, doesn't bother me much with 350s at 900. At the same time, what do you need to shoot, a train? The load is overkill, I use it to bust concrete for fun sometimes. It leaves other handguns and some rifles in the dust for that. But if I ever needed to shoot a moose or grizz...

We were just shooting the loads because they were published in the magazines and the mold was on hand for .45-70 boolits. Mine is a 7-1/2" as well and it's only my opinion but it's not a particularly heavy gun for the amount of power it can produce. I'm comparing it to guns that were meant to have high energy loads run through them like the .454 and up. Those guns generally weigh much more than a Blackhawk.

Using the IPSC power factor calculating formula the 350 gr at 900 fps would have a PF of 315. The 290 gr at 1300 would have a PF of 377. That's a big difference in felt recoil. For comparison, a factory .45 Colt would be about 212 and a .44 Mag woud be around 324.

I carry mine any time I'm out in the desert whether I'm hunting or flying radio controlled sailplanes. It's loaded with snake loads made with 5 gr W231 covered by a .45 cal gas check, filled to the top with #9 shot and another gas check to cap it off. Three of those plus 3 full house loads with XTPs give me a very versatile handgun. It's very effective on rattlesnakes.

David

[MBTcustom]

Most versatile cartridge? You have asked the #1 question that has been on my mind for the last ten years. I have built several rifles in my efforts to find an answer, and fired thousands of cartridges trying to find the perfect combo.
I found an answer too.
For me, the most versatile cartridge in the world is the lowly, unexciting 12gauge shotgun.
I ignored it for years because of its limitations on big game and atrocious accuracy (I have never been willing to have a separate slug barrel on "the all around gun") with slugs. but then I discovered a round ball load that changed everything. It will shoot clean through a RR tie at 50 yards. It holds deer sized groups at 100 yards (not a tack driver, but an easy 8" group). It also does what it does best on birds and squirrels, and the best part is that in most of the country it is legal to be used as the all around cartridge, while any metallic cartridge is not. Also, in countries where gun control has gotten out of control, they can still have their shotguns, as no one can argue its usefulness (its just a shotgun afterall[smilie=l:).
I hate to cast my vote for such a commonplace weapon, but it is what it is. I'll shoot and hunt with other stuff, but the shotgun is here to stay.

[Sonnypie]

I don't want more versatility, I want more GUNS! What happens if I tell my wife that a single gun will do everything???

A single gun won't do everything.

But if you have a 45ACP, and a 30-06....
Well, there ain't much you can't stop dead in it's tracks.
For indoors, I like a 12 gauge.

My choices of 3. :drinks: