Should I be concerned that...

[Marlin Junky]

My H-R's firing pin strikes the primer way off center? I just got my H-R back from the factory to fix a headspace problem on the .35 Whelen barrel and I noticed before I sent it back that the firing pin strikes off-center slightly on the Whelen cases but it's real obvious on the lil' .357 cases. I'm just wondering if it could lead to a misfiring situation. The primer's dent slightly touches the perimeter of the primer pocket after firing but there's no obvious mark on the cases after decapping... at least not so far with my mild loads.

MJ

[Bret4207]

If the strike moves towards center as the rifle wears in then you have no issue, things will only get better. If it's not going in that direction then I'd call H+R and tell them. See what they can do.

[Marlin Junky]

The firing pin strike is always at 9 o'clock and NEF just shipped the rifle back to me after working on a headspace problem. What else can they do short of replacing the receiver? Has anyone else had this experience? Can I expect NEF to really fix it within the 2 year warranty period or just provide lip service? I'd rather shoot the gun (even if it only lasts a couple years) than have it spend more time in the back of a UPS truck than on the range.

MJ

P.S. Has anyone experienced a broken firing pin on their H-R because the firing pin wasn't mounted correctly?

[carpetman]

If the firing pin always strikes at 9 o'clock you need a big sign that says no burglars allowed except at 9 o'clock.

[Marlin Junky]

That's a good one. What if I said ...it strikes at 270 degrees near the edge of the primer?

Hopefully the H-R will fall apart under warranty. Whatever... the scope it's wearing is worth more than the rifle.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

No more Handi-Rifles for me. I tested my CCI-450 primers before spending valuable time concocting handloads with them and they went off just fine in the reloading room when seated in the same cases today's range ammo was assembled in. So, this morning finds me at the range with high hopes of shooting some really tight groups with 35-200FN and SAECO 352 but I was able to only get 5 rounds to fire. I think I wore out the mainspring after less than 200 rounds... and I never dry fired this poor excuse for a firearm. Screw NEF, they're not going to get another chance to fix it... it's my turn now.

MJ

[grumpy one]

MJ, on superficial consideration it seems like you have to drill and bush the receiver to bring the firing pin hole to align with the center of the bore. Now, why would you do that rather than just have the vendor replace the receiver? You don't know how thick it is where you'd have to bush it, and your bush would have to withstand the rearward pressure on the primer so it has to be fairly solid. Annoying if your gun "goes unbushed" as they used to say when brass cannon did the same thing in the heat of battle.

Not my business, and I'm inclined to agree it's probably possible to fix it yourself, but inevitably you end up with a gun most people would see as inferior to one that was built right in the first place.

[Marlin Junky]

Grumpy,

What makes you think NEF will replace the receiver? Have they ever done that for you or anyone else you know?

I suppose I could send them the rifle (again) with a .357 case that has three distinct firing pin dents in the primer created by rotating the case each time I tried firing the round. Once they try a round of factory ammo and it goes off they'll probably ship the gun right back to me though. I didn't have a problem with Federal 200 primers so maybe I'll try some Federal 205 primers. Maybe the Federal 205's have a thinner cup than the CCI-450's. I know that Federal uses (or at least used to use) a more sensitive priming compound than CCI.

MJ

P.S. I almost forgot though... I tried the CCI-450's before loading ammo and they went off. Here's another point: I feel the trigger has been developing some creep too. I'll bet the mainspring is just a piece of crap and if I send the gun back NEF will just put a new mainspring in it that'll last another 200 rounds.

[grumpy one]

MJ, I've never done business with those guys, I'm just guessing that they have enough sense to deal honestly with the customer when the problem is demonstrated clearly enough.

You might benefit from taking the action apart and looking for problems, if you can do that without wrecking the warranty. If, for example, the firing pin is bent or misaligned, that might account for both the offset impacts and the lack of energy - a long bent firing pin will deflect under load rather than transfer the spring energy to the primer. Or the linkage might be bound up, or obstructed by swarf or machining burrs, causing both the offset and the light strikes. There might be soft parts involved too. If you can find what's wrong without fixing it, you may be able to go to them with a clear explanation. At the moment you probably haven't convinced them that there is anything much wrong.

These are my guesses, not any knowledge of the supplier. In the end the problem has to be solved, and that will probably be best done with some new parts. If possible it's best to get those parts from them, at no charge. If it turns out there are just burrs and bad assembly, fine - you'll fix them in the course of finding out what's wrong. However my habit in these situations has been to start reworking or redesigning things right from the get-go, and then by the time I fully understand the problem, I don't have any warranty cover.

[Blammer]

I had the same problem with my 243 NEF. Sent it back to them to fix. (no charge,except shipping, which was no biggie.)

call first and tell the problem. Mine was causing misfires. ;)

[MT Gianni]

I am in the send it back area and include a detailed explination of the problem. The cases would also help. Does it go bang every time with factory loads? If so they will not consider it a problem. Gianni

[lathesmith]

MJ, I forgot to ask something. Did you say you had another barrel for this NEF receiver? If so, is the firing pin strike the same (really off center) for it as well?
Lathesmith

[Marlin Junky]

MJ, I forgot to ask something. Did you say you had another barrel for this NEF receiver? If so, is the firing pin strike the same (really off center) for it as well?
Lathesmith

Lathesmith,

I haven't used the .35 Whelen barrel since the rifle came back from being repaired but it was obiviously off center before I sent it to NEF. At that time I didn't think the off center primer stike on the large rifle primers was an issue because it was way more obvious that there was a headspace problem and the extractor was not grabbing the rim of the .35 Whelen.

MJ

P.S. The rifle was originally a .35 Whelen and was sent to the factory for repair as a .35 Whelen. The .357 was purchased as an accessory barrel and I have only used the .357 barrel since the rifle has been returned after repair. I'll fire some primed cases in both the .35 Whelen and .357 barrel before waisting my time at the loading bench and range again. I'm putting a Brownells' ordered together and maybe I'll include a firing pin and a hammer spring or two for the H-R.

[porkchop bob]

MJ, I forgot to ask something. Did you say you had another barrel for this NEF receiver? If so, is the firing pin strike the same (really off center) for it as well?
Lathesmith

Is it the receiver or this barrel that is out of spec? The answer to Lathesmith's question will shed light on the problem being discussed.

Bob

[Marlin Junky]

Is it the receiver or this barrel that is out of spec?

Bob

I don't know Bob... there was no report of any kind with the shipment from the repair department... just the SB2 in .35 Whelen and a .357 accessory barrel that I ordered for $112.00.

MJ

[lathesmith]

I know this may seem obvious but... if the firing pin strike is more off center with the 357 barrel than with the 35 Whelen, I would say the 357 barrel is not sitting in the receiver the way it should. Try wiggling your barrel side to side to test for play; check to see if it is mounted straight. And, try and see if you have fired the gun enough times for the rear of the cartridge case to "mark" the receiver face. If you can see this faint outline, check to see if it is centered in the receiver face. Once again, I know this is obvious, but the answers to these questions will help determine whether it is your barrel or receiver that is out of whack. The 357 barrel may also be made incorrectly, with the lug slightly off center with the barrel. This could cause the condition you describe.
Lathesmith

[Bret4207]

You've gotten some good adivce here. I know a few folks that just dote on their H+R's and they own "good" rifles too- Rem, Win, Browning, Sako, Ruger, etc. I think you owe it to yourself to at least call the company and explain the problem. Ask to talk to a supervisor if you feel you're getting the run around. Or get a local gunsmiths opinion. I fixed my brothers H+R Topper years ago that had an offset firing pin problem. That required a new pin and a bushing. These days I'd bet you could sell the 2 barrel combo for enough to cover most of your cost. It's up to you, but I'd go a bit further before I chucked it.

[Marlin Junky]

Tpr. Bret,

Lots of good input, yes... and I'm impressed with the level of interest in the H-R. Actually the level of interest in the H-R on this board is want prompted me to try one.

Tonight I'm going to see if I can determine if the firing pin hole is off center in the recoil shield. If it looks close enough to center, I may send the rifle (with the .357 barrel) to Bellm for a .358 Bellm chamber but first I'll probably strip the action and see what I can do to improve things. If the firing pin hole is obviously off center in the recoil shield, I'll give NEF a call. I still need to fire some primed .35 Whelen brass and compare the primer strike position to those on cases that were shot before I sent the rifle back to NEF for headspace and extractor repair (on the Whelen barrel).

Thanks to all for your support,
MJ

P.S. I'm hoping much of the problem is due to a sloppy .357 chamber with the rim portion cut a little deep... that's why I'm considering the .358 Bellm chamber.

[rhead]

Have you checked the three digit number (hand written with a vibro tool on mine)on the base pin platform to make sure it is the same as the last three digits of the reciever seriel number? They could have sent a barrel that was fitted to someone else's reciever. I haven't heard of this mistake happening but I suppose it is physically possible and therefore inevitable given enough time. It could explane the situation. That would mean another person had the same problem.

Good luck on solving the problem.

[uscra112]

To answer the original question - yes, according to the benchrest types the off-center strike will cause inconsistant ignition. The anvil has "legs" that hold it centered in the primer. Since you don't know the orientation of the primer, you will be getting some strikes that are over a leg, and some that aren't.

[Marlin Junky]

The firing pin hole is not noticeably off center (port to starboard) but the barrel does rock side to side when it is "locked up". Here's another observation not meant to cloud the issue; however, I haven't had a chance to strip the action yet so I can't tell for sure if the firing pin hole is elongating towards 6 o'clock or the the firing pin hole is intensionally drilled downward into the breech. Again this is just another observation, independent of the 9 o'clock primer strike, but it looks like the firing pin hole is drilled downward into the breech... although I can't figure out why they would design the receiver that way.

The lock up on this rifle is very sloppy and the cheesy way NEF attempted to tighten the headspace by shimming the barrel retaining part screwed into the stock is IMO, irresponsible. It's hard to believe these rifles are chambered for modern center fire cartridges. I will send it back to NEF once more, but IMO, there's only one way to fix it... replace it with a T/C.

MJ

P.S. Here's another opinion and the only reason I'm expressing it is because I hope Marlin's acquisition of NEF doesn't hurt them financially; however, I think the H&R 1871 should have been upgraded with a barrel-to-receiver mounting system that resembles the T/C (pin through a hole).

[lovedogs]

Between myself and a pile of friends who own Handi's and BC's we've shot tons of ammo through them with no real problems. One individual had some problems with a .38-55 but that was due to his not being willing to try bullets and loading technique other than the ones he wanted to use instead of what the rifle wanted to shoot.

All of our dealings with the factory have been positive. I'd bet if you called them and then sent it in it'd get fixed without a bill. You can even ask them to adjust the trigger and do other little things that make them a nicer gun and they are willing to accomodate in most cases. I don't think I'd tinker on it myself because that'd give them license to refuse warranty. Why not give them a call? You might get pleasantly surprised!

[Marlin Junky]

lovedogs,

I haven't given up yet. NEF will be hearing from me as soon as I get a chance.

MJ