19-5 Smithy

[aarolar]

Just picked up a nice 19-5 nickle plated with a 4 inch bbl and have a few questions about it and loading for it.

I have done alot of reading about not shooting "hot" loads and especially hot 125 grn loads. My question is what is the definition of hot? Are factory loads off the shelf at walmart considered hot? Should I refrain from shooting 357 magnum level stuff at all or just hopped up handloaded stuff?

Also, I have read your not supposed to use ammonia based cleaners with the nickle finish so how do I go about removing the copper fowling without using ammonia before I start shooting cast boolits?

[shotman]

well the gun will handle some hot loads, but hot MEANS a max on the reloading chart. One thing is the 125 in a 357 mag is going to give a fire ball and you will get erosion fast.
BUT some here load a 500 5 grs over max for targets

[aarolar]

well the gun will handle some hot loads, but hot MEANS a max on the reloading chart. One thing is the 125 in a 357 mag is going to give a fire ball and you will get erosion fast.
BUT some here load a 500 5 grs over max for targets

Well I will mostly be shooting 158grn cast boolits for targets and only carry the 125 grain stuff out on the town. I don't want super hot loads for target practice but I would like to shoot magnum level stuff on a regular basis as long as it not causing undue damage to the gun.

[rintinglen]

The whole theory behind the M-19 was to have a 38 that could shoot 357s. These are prone to cracking the forcing cone, sometimes in as few as a 1000 rounds of magnum ammo, sometimes 3 or 4 times that. If you do crack a forcing cone, you'll be SOL, because S&W Have exhausted their supply of replacements, or so I've read. I would load hot 38's for practice and just target the gun with the serious stuff, no more than a box a year. Your gun: your call. I have a 66-1 and it is a favorite.

[ebner glocken]

If you own a K38 look at the differences of dimensions of the crane and forcing cone on both. The reason becomes very apparent. In order to have a K frame handle the stress of a .357 the crane had to have more meat on it. For it to fit into the frame meat had to be taken out of the frame and forcing cone, hintz the slinder forcing cone at the 6 o'clock position.

The story I hear is that the bearing surface of the 125s isn't long enough to seal across the cylinder, forcing cone, into the rifling at the same time causing high pressure to blow by this weak point. Not a big deal with 38s, a much bigger deal with top .357 loads. The only way for me to debunk this urban legand is to risk cracking the forcing cone on my model 19 (this I don't care to risk).

My K38s mostly see 2.7 gr of bullseye with a 148gr DEWC as do my 19s. I save the TOP 357s for rugers as they are clearly marked as such. Model 19 is a nice balenced gun but I look at it as another K38 as far as shooting goes.

Ebner

[shooting on a shoestring]

The 125s also hit the forcing cone with more velocity than the heavier boolits. I don't shoot 125s or lighter in mine. I do use full wadcutters and the various 158 SWCs with 2400 to get into 1250 to 1300 fps from my 6 inch barrel. However, its seen way more 3.5 gr Bullseye .38s than anything else. I have a Ruger BH that gets my exploratory loads. A GP100, Security Six and SP101 serve my SD needs and they live on firebreather loads. My sweet Smiths have life easy.

[aarolar]

what about cleaning the copper out of the bore prior to starting a steady diet of lead? Just carefully use the ammonia or is there a better way?

[RKJ]

what about cleaning the copper out of the bore prior to starting a steady diet of lead? Just carefully use the ammonia or is there a better way?

I found this stuff advertised. I haven't used and just skimmed over the page, but it might get you in the right direction.

Here is from their FAQ's: Will M-Pro7 attack nickel plating?
M-Pro7 is perfectly safe to use on nickel plated weaponry. Even the old Colt nickel that can damage easily. It really works wonders on the cylinder face and forcing cone.

[Bret4207]

My M19 is the last one of my guns I'd sell. I've run the stoopidly hot stuff through it, but these days it sees a lot more 150-170 gr lead alloy loads at warm mid range levels, be it 38 or 357. I've also given up on the 125 gr mag stuff. There are plenty of other options available.

[DrCaveman]

I have had great results with my 19-3 nickel 4". The factory 158 gr ammo showed no signs of damage in my limited use. Medium-hot 158 gr cast loads also shot great and seemed not to hurt anything. I try to avoid hoppe's solvent, and clean with break free clp. Have seen no signs of corrosion/damage to the nickel plating. Others may have different results.

My one regret was using lil gun for some near-max 200 gr loads. After about 2 cylinders I found a small cut starting in the top strap. Dang! Stupid!

Since then I have sort of wussed out and shoot mostly wadcutters. I since bought a ruger gp100 for the slammers.

One more thing on the list of awesomeness of the m19 is that you can load the Keith 358429 to crimp in the crimp groove. A lot of revolvers won't let you get away with that when using magnum cases.

Enjoy your excellent gun, and take care of it!

[ebner glocken]

This stuff here has worked well for me. It seems to take everything out and hasn't harmed a finish yet.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/784639/sharp-shoot-r-wipe-out-brushless-foaming-bore-cleaning-solvent-5-oz-aerosol

Ebner

[gray wolf]

there are many copper solvent that do not contain ammonia,
Wipe out for one, J B bore paste, Iosso paste, hoppes copper terminator,
KG 12 big bore copper remover, bore tech Cu+2 copper remover, aqua clean solvent
All Ammonia free.
Safe for your gun ?? call and find out.
M pro 7 ain't gonna get it, grate for powder fowling.
I would look into the wipe out foam, spray on bore leave in over night = clean bore.

[BLTsandwedge]

My M19 is the last one of my guns I'd sell. I've run the stoopidly hot stuff through it, but these days it sees a lot more 150-170 gr lead alloy loads at warm mid range levels, be it 38 or 357. I've also given up on the 125 gr mag stuff. There are plenty of other options available.

+1. While I can't find emprical data to support there being a problem with 125g jacketed magnum rounds, my own anecdotal experience (as I've posted before) is that I split the forcing cone on my cherished 19. I managed to do that by using 125g Gold Dots over a fairly robust load of H110- but not book max. This fine effort took about 60 rounds out of a box of 100 GDs. This was before I heard through the grape that there was a potential issue with such loads in the 19. The rest of the GDs will be fed to the Python.

[Char-Gar]

Bill Jordon was the guiding light behind the development of the "Combat Magnum" which later became the Model 19. He dubed it "the finest law enforcement handgun in the world". The theory was that police would practice with 38 Specials and then stoke it with magnum loads when on duty.

With full snort magnum loads the Smith and Wesson K frames does not have the longevity of the larger N frames. In due time the L frame was developed to give the frame and cylinder more beef while retaining the smaller K frame grip. Women officers were coming on line about that time, and the K frame grip fit their hands better.

The 19 was developed long before Lee Jurris came up with light weight high velocity jacketed bullets that turned the 357 Magnum into a death ray and became the rage until the autopistol took over for law enforcement work. These type loads will eat up the forcing cone of the Model 19 pretty darn quick.

Used as intended (above) a Smith 19 will give a lifetime of good service. They are excellent revolvers in all regards.

I can't help you with the nickle plate and solvents. I avoid nickle plated pistols like the plague.

[aarolar]

Thanks for all the advice guys I really appreciate it and will be back with more questions once I get my mold and start casting for it. I just found out today that I am more than likely going to be acquiring a 657-2 in the very near future to keep my 19-5 company.[smilie=p:

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