.45lc

[skimmerhead]

when loading your 45lc boolits to use in a ruger bisley black hawk, can you load your boolits hotter to shoot em in a rossi lever gun with a 24" oct. barrel, or should you load them the same? the boolits i'll be useing are the mihec 45 ruger only mold and the mihec 270 ssa. i have not slugged the barrel on the rossi yet. i have no experence shooting hand gun loads out of a lever gun, as i only had a marlin in 30-30. any advise would be well recieved, thank you.

skimmerhead

[Nobade]

The Ruger, or rather your wrist, will take whatever the Rossi will. I have tried in the past and couldn't hurt either a Blackhawk or a Rossi '92 45 Colt with loads that I didn't want to shoot because of the recoil. Now that I have done that I don't feel the need to do it any more.

Personally I wouldn't try to make different loads but rather try to find something that is accurate and pleasant to shoot in either. That way you don't have to go segregating ammo or remembering which is which. That's why any more I load all my 45 Colt ammo with black powder and it works great in all my 45 colt chambered guns.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I shoot 3 Rugers and 2 Rossi 45 Colts and they all shoot 17 grains 2400 with the Lee 265 FRN as good as I can. Not a super fast load and will not cause you to be concerned about any weapon damage.
Mike in ILL

[richhodg66]

Interesting this thread showed up. This afternoon, I picked up a nice Rossie '92 clone (not sure exactly what it's called) in .45 Colt. I've been toying with getting into cowboy action shooting for a long time now, and this is a start.

I am a pretty experienced loader of .45 Colt for my Ruger Blackhawks. Genrally, I have stuck to about eight grains of Unique and the SAECO 250 grain SWC which I have a four cavity mold for and another RN bullet of about the same weight. I really doubt I'll load much hotter than that, but can anyone else tell me if there are other considerations? Do these little lever guns feed SWCs OK?

I must admit I like this rifle a lot. Nice gloss blueing, a dark stock that looks like nice walnut to me and the best part of all, no safety on it, it's apparently one of the older ones. I think I'm gonna leave it stock, normally I'd put a peep sight on any rifle I didn't scope, but I think I'll leave this one as is.

[RobS]

I shoot "Ruger Only" loads out of a Rossi stainless and it's been just fine. I've read that the Rossi 45 Colt can take a bit more than 32K but I personally don't. I run a 300 and 340 grain cast boolits. By the way, can you get that 45 Ruger Only to chamber???? at .440 of a nose length it's pretty long. I know the 45-270-SAA will run through them like butter though.

Here's an article for you:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

[Larry Gibson]

Load for accuracy in the Rossi staying within the "Ruger only" loads listed in manuals. You will probably find the most accurate load out of the Rossi Rifle to be at the low end of the Ruger only loads; I do in my Rossi 45 Colt rifle. Then just use that load n the Vaquero BH. You will probably find that load to accurate in the revolver also.

Most often if you load for accuracy in the revolver, especially with heavier "Ruger only" loads, you will find them not to be so accurate in the rifle with PB'd cast bullets. I've found that loading for the rifle and then accepting that load for the revolver works best with all other pistol cartridges used in rifles.

Larry Gibson

[skimmerhead]

I shoot "Ruger Only" loads out of a Rossi stainless and it's been just fine. I've read that the Rossi 45 Colt can take a bit more than 32K but I personally don't. I run a 300 and 340 grain cast boolits. By the way, can you get that 45 Ruger Only to chamber???? at .440 of a nose length it's pretty long. I know the 45-270-SAA will run through them like butter though.

Here's an article for you:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

that was my next endeavor is to see if the ruger only boolit will cycle in the rossi. i loaded a few dummy rds to try. i agree with you, it's a loonnggg nose but it is an awesome looking 45lc with the round or penta hp's.
skimmerhead

[RobS]

Load for accuracy in the Rossi staying within the "Ruger only" loads listed in manuals. You will probably find the most accurate load out of the Rossi Rifle to be at the low end of the Ruger only loads; I do in my Rossi 45 Colt rifle. Then just use that load n the Vaquero BH. You will probably find that load to accurate in the revolver also.

Most often if you load for accuracy in the revolver, especially with heavier "Ruger only" loads, you will find them not to be so accurate in the rifle with PB'd cast bullets. I've found that loading for the rifle and then accepting that load for the revolver works best with all other pistol cartridges used in rifles.

Larry Gibson


This has not been my experience at all. I load for a Rossi Braztech 45 Colt and a Rossi LSI Puma 454 Casull. Both of my rifles have .452-.4525 groove diameter barrels IIRC and I shoot .454 boolits in the 45 Colt and since I have large throats on my SRH I load .455 diameter in the Casull. I typically load water quenched WW boolits ranging from 260 grain PB LFN style boolits to 300 and 340 grain PB LFN's (all nose lengths are .380" or less). I have had fine accuracy with just about any load I shoot in the rifles in fact I load to find accuracy in the revolvers and then use those loads in my rifles.

[RobS]

that was my next endeavor is to see if the ruger only boolit will cycle in the rossi. i loaded a few dummy rds to try. i agree with you, it's a loonnggg nose but it is an awesome looking 45lc with the round or penta hp's.
skimmerhead

You're right, it does look pretty damn cool..............especially with the penta HP's

[skimmerhead]

You're right, it does look pretty damn cool..............especially with the penta HP's

it's cool, but its too long! i tried the dummy rd's and they won't cycle, a little bit too long. tomorrow i'll try to see how much, i can maybe crimp the boolit a bit deeper and check the brass lenth, but i don't think i'll be able to use that boolit in the rifle.

skimmerhead :cry:

[RobS]

A .400" nose length in a lfn design is a maybe depending on the ogive (secant or tangent) and front drive band width. I run all my LFN style designs at .380 to make sure they all cycle well. A WFN is best suited at .340 or so but depends on the meplat diameter. I didn't figure the Ruger Only 45 would work in the Rossi but your other mold will work well and if sized for your rifle it'll shoot well out to 100 to 150 yards. I only shot it that far so can't really tell you if it'll do better past that point.

[skimmerhead]

A .400" nose length in a lfn design is a maybe depending on the ogive (secant or tangent) and front drive band width. I run all my LFN style designs at .380 to make sure they all cycle well. A WFN is best suited at .340 or so but depends on the meplat diameter. I didn't figure the Ruger Only 45 would work in the Rossi but your other mold will work well and if sized for your rifle it'll shoot well out to 100 to 150 yards. I only shot it that far so can't really tell you if it'll do better past that point.
sounds good, that's about as far as i'm gonna shoot. i have a lyman 452651 i believe the number is, i think its 300gr's or so, and a couple others i can't think of offhand. i'm in the noe group buy for that 452651 hp gc, i can't wait to see that thing with a big ole hp in it. i think it'll work good in my 460xvr. i plan on loading that boolit in 460, 454, and 45lc it should be a thumper in either one. thanks for all your input, i appreiceate it.

skimmerhead:castmine:

[GARCIA]

I ran into the same problem with the OAL with a 1894 Marlin. A little work with a jewelers file on the cartridge stop cleared up the problem. Had to trim it back to allow for the longer length. Rifle works great now with zero feeding issues.

Tom

[RobS]

I ran into the same problem with the OAL with a 1894 Marlin. A little work with a jewelers file on the cartridge stop cleared up the problem. Had to trim it back to allow for the longer length. Rifle works great now with zero feeding issues.

Tom

Not quite the same problem with the 92's. The nose/ogive of the boolit is hitting the top of the chamber and binds at an angle.

[RobS]

sounds good, that's about as far as i'm gonna shoot. i have a lyman 452651 i believe the number is, i think its 300gr's or so, and a couple others i can't think of offhand. i'm in the noe group buy for that 452651 hp gc, i can't wait to see that thing with a big ole hp in it. i think it'll work good in my 460xvr. i plan on loading that boolit in 460, 454, and 45lc it should be a thumper in either one. thanks for all your input, i appreiceate it.

skimmerhead:castmine:

The Lyman 452651 RF with it's two crimp grooves and meplat of .300 will work well in the lever action. In fact, IIRC, you'll be able to crimp on the long COAL groove with no problems. Never kept the mold very long though since it only cast .452 and I needed a larger diameter boolit. It was a pretty accurate design though dispite being skinny and with no doubt the GC helped a great deal with the small diameter issues. The design should be a good all around for the three revolvers calibers you plan on shooting.

[Larry Gibson]

RobS

What I'm saying is if you push a PB'd cast of 250 - 260 gr (standard 45 Colt weight) or lighter cast bullet with top end Ruger only loads out of a rifle the velocity is going to be too high for best accuracy most often. Your use of hard cast heavier bullets brings the velocity down where accuracy is still good.

There are most often some exceptions but a 270 -300+ gr cast bullet with any Ruger only 45 Colt load is not going to get into the velocity range a 250 or lighter weight cast bullet would out of a rifle. The OP is borderline with his 270 gr bullet. That is why I suggested he work up the load for accuracy with the rifle staying within Ruger only loads. He may very well get very good accuracy at top end loads, but then he may not.

As with most loading there are a lot of variables and yes he can lod his 45 Colts hotter upwards for the Casull but if he messes up and gets them in his Ruger...............

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

I have largely decided that in a 45 Colt rifle velocity isn't always really needed. I can get a 300 gr plain base in the 1200 to 1300 fps range quite easily and it will shoot thru anything I will use it on.
For deer I have settled on a load in the 1100 fps range, bullet weight does the rest.

[RobS]

I get what you are saying Larry and I don't run the 45 colt out past the Ruger Only loads either. There are exceptions to everything and that is why I posted. You didn't specify boolit weight in your post just PB design. However, as an example to exceptions of lighter bullets, I run the 453640, a 260 grain LFN style design, and it can run at the upper ends (with the right powder) just fine out of the rifles but that is my experience with the boolit hardness and reloading I do. From the sound of things skimmerhead is going to be on the heavier side of things with the 45-270-SAA as the light boolit of selection and that one comes in at or just a bit over 280 grains from the variety of molds I've seen (custom or RCBS manufactured). He then has plans on the Lyman 452651 a design over 300 grains.






RobS

What I'm saying is if you push a PB'd cast of 250 - 260 gr (standard 45 Colt weight) or lighter cast bullet with top end Ruger only loads out of a rifle the velocity is going to be too high for best accuracy most often. Your use of hard cast heavier bullets brings the velocity down where accuracy is still good.

There are most often some exceptions but a 270 -300+ gr cast bullet with any Ruger only 45 Colt load is not going to get into the velocity range a 250 or lighter weight cast bullet would out of a rifle. The OP is borderline with his 270 gr bullet. That is why I suggested he work up the load for accuracy with the rifle staying within Ruger only loads. He may very well get very good accuracy at top end loads, but then he may not.

As with most loading there are a lot of variables and yes he can lod his 45 Colts hotter upwards for the Casull but if he messes up and gets them in his Ruger...............

Larry Gibson

[Gray Fox]

The Lee 300 RNFP GC crimped in the top crimp groove cycles fine in my Rossi carbine and rifle, but the 279 SAA is way too long. Each rifle eats what it likes, I guess. This boolit could be loaded to almost factory .45-70 300 velocities, but I see no reason to, especially with the crescent buttplate of the rifle. Would hurt a lot on both ends. GF

[Larry Gibson]

RobS

Not a problem as we're basically saying the same thing. I was just want ing to keep within thecontext of the OP's question regarding loading the 45 Colt "hotter" for use in the rifle. If he keeps his load with his bullets (I think he mentioned 270s) to Ruger only loads with velocities under 1400fps or so out of the rifle his accuracy should be good. If he can keep his loads seperate then he can load up into Casull levels for the rifle. However, many 45 Colt Rossis don't have the recoil improvements and will shoot loose (particularly the mag tube) if recoil gets high. The Casull model Rossis have improvements to prevent that.

Larry Gibson

[TXGunNut]

I have largely decided that in a 45 Colt rifle velocity isn't always really needed. I can get a 300 gr plain base in the 1200 to 1300 fps range quite easily and it will shoot thru anything I will use it on.
For deer I have settled on a load in the 1100 fps range, bullet weight does the rest.

Hard to argue with that, with the exception of an "entertainment-only" rhino-rolling J-bullet load my 45 Colt loads are pretty mild, BP "play" load is hotter than my hunting load. I use a 255gr Lyman tribute to Uncle Elmer over FFFg for fun and Universal for hunting. I keep two piles of them on hand, one lubed w/ SPG and one w/ LLA.
45 Colt, IMHO, is like the 45-70; sure, you CAN hotrod it but as a rule I don't bother. It's just not necessary for what I use these rounds for.

[skimmerhead]

The Lyman 452651 RF with it's two crimp grooves and meplat of .300 will work well in the lever action. In fact, IIRC, you'll be able to crimp on the long COAL groove with no problems. Never kept the mold very long though since it only cast .452 and I needed a larger diameter boolit. It was a pretty accurate design though dispite being skinny and with no doubt the GC helped a great deal with the small diameter issues. The design should be a good all around for the three revolvers calibers you plan on shooting.
i have casted a few boolits with that lyman 452651 but i can't recall what they dropped i'd have to check my log, allthough i believe they were .452. the noe mold i ordered it .454 to make sure it will be a good fit. i didn't have time today to mess with it i had a friend come over from new orleans to help him with stuck case in his enfield
.303 and a few other things we worked on. he had a 1911 with a compensator on it, about 1 1/2" long, that was a cooll 1911. but he had to leave early, it's a bit of a drive for him to come here, but we had a good visit and got a few things done, exchanged a few tips, a few gifts. i enjoyed our day, i enjoy his visits, i had a good day.

skimmerhead:razz:

[RobS]

It's always great to talk with another person who understands the language!!!

[DanWalker]

I took a win 94 trapper carbine to Africa last month and everything I shot with it just DIED.
I was shooting a 454424 boolit cast from ACWW at a BHN12 hardness.
I loaded them over 18.5 grains of 2400.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=135266&page=5

[rosst]

DanWalker

Hi, can i ask a few questions about your load/trapper please . .. but first, very much like your pics of your hunt in Africa

my question is . . . i have a centinnual .45 trapper that wont shoot the 454424, 4'' at 50 yards,
WW sized to .452 using unique from 7-10 grains, same results using 454190
but the LEE 230 BB will shoot 1 1/2'' all day long at 50 yards, 2 1/2 at 100 . . .. so my question to you is have you ever used unique or similar
what do you size your bullets to
could changing to 2400 or H110 improve things . .. i would prefer to use the big SWC if i could, especially after seeing your photos

if you or anybody else have any thoughts or suggestions i would appreciate it . . . cheers

[DanWalker]

Thanks for the kind words. I shoot my boolits sized at .454
I've never gotten as good of accuracy from Unique as I have from 2400.
You might try shooting your boolits as cast, with no sizing at all, if they will chamber.

[rosst]

cheers Dan . .. i'll give it a go in the next few days - should'nt be a problem chambering, my trapper has a ' generious ' chamber