enlarge 460 wby to 512?

[nekshot]

I hope this question is at the right thread. I have a old project I am trying to complete. A barrel fitted to a 98 mauser with a bore for 50 cal muzzle loader. I need a boolit of 512 to work. I also have threads from old plug at 566. A 460 reamer will be the easiest way thru this if i can enlarge the inside of the neck to 512 without splitting the neck. Does any body know if this would work because this brass is to expensive to experiment with. I am well aware this project could make me look like an idiot but the gun really looks impressive from the muzzle end. This is a pb deal only. no smokeless powder. Thanks for input

[leftiye]

Because the weatherby cases have the double radius neck/shoulder, enlarging the neck can be a problem. You could go to a standard 30 degree shoulder with angles. BTW, there are a bunch of new cases out there that vie with the .460 for capacity. The Rem. Ultra mag case come to mind.

Next problem - unless you have a Brevex length Mauser 98 action, you're gonna play hell getting a .460 to fit and feed in that action. You might want to look at one of the new short (chubby) magnum cases. And you might want to turn down tyour rims (rebate them) so you don't run out of bolt face/rim. Having the rim on the face of the bolt to control feeding and extraction/ejection is nice.

Have you considered finding a siamese mauser magazine and going to 50 Alaskan? Samo samo as hopped up 50-70. Still do kickum butt. You could get 50 bsic cases and make them whatever length you want (up to 3.25 inches).

[rockrat]

Don't see why it wouldn't work. You won't have much of a shoulder unless you have a custom reamer ground so the shoulder dia. is about .010" larger in dia. Then you will only have about a .016" shoulder, but that should be enough. I have taken 28 caliber to 44 caliber with few split necks, so a 45 to a 50 should be easy. A 1-15" twist barrel would be about right for your pb boolits.

You are wanting a muzzloader, but using 460 Weatherby brass to hold the charge and light off the powder? Don't think it would be considered a muzzloader as you could still use fixed ammunition. You will have to use a primed case for every shot, if I understand your build.

[nekshot]

Thanks leftiye for the input. I measured the rails and I think I can open them up enough and the belt would have to be turned down to clear rails. I was planning to go the 50-90 route but I will have to bore out threads and I don't trust soldering in a plug. My soldering leaves alot to be desired. I hear some talk of a glue from loctite, but I don,t know any thing of it. The 50-90 definetly will work in the action and deep down in my heart I prefer a straight case over a bottle neck for bp.

[nekshot]

rockrat, I want to use this barrel as a cartridge gun. The barrel is normal dimensions but it is 50 cal with a 1-48 twist. I am aware this is less than ideal but it is a project and I have too much time on my hands to do nothing so why not try it is my thoughts.

[leftiye]

Thanks leftiye for the input. I measured the rails and I think I can open them up enough and the belt would have to be turned down to clear rails. I was planning to go the 50-90 route but I will have to bore out threads and I don't trust soldering in a plug. My soldering leaves alot to be desired. I hear some talk of a glue from loctite, but I don,t know any thing of it. The 50-90 definetly will work in the action and deep down in my heart I prefer a straight case over a bottle neck for bp.

You could always cut off the breech end of the barrel to get rid of the breech plug threads. I guess that I'm confused why you would need a breech plug atall, you certainly couldn't chamber a ctg. through a breech plug. Consider that even with black powder that thang will give you a crippled shoulder in less than two shots.

[nekshot]

leftiye, this barrel looks like any other rifle barrel (f4) or similar profile and is threaded for a mauser 98. At the chamber end is a plug for shotgun primer. With the plug out the remaining threads in the barrel are about 566. The 460 wby is big and would take them out. Somebody suggested other newer mag cartridges and I see a 300 rem ultra with neck cut off would give I believe about the middle of 50-70 and 50-90 capacity. To do this I will need to bore out old threads and fit in new metal to give me a bore close to original size. then possibly a 50-90 reamer only taken in as far as the 300 case allows. I will have to ream a sizing die at the same time to size the brass. I need to measure a 50-90 case part way back to see how close this is to the 300 ultra case. I hope this makes sense. A couple years ago i posted this same project just to see if others thought it might work. I got side tracked on other things and now I want to complete it.

[swheeler]

I hope this question is at the right thread. I have a old project I am trying to complete. A barrel fitted to a 98 mauser with a bore for 50 cal muzzle loader. I need a boolit of 512 to work. I also have threads from old plug at 566. A 460 reamer will be the easiest way thru this if i can enlarge the inside of the neck to 512 without splitting the neck. Does any body know if this would work because this brass is to expensive to experiment with. I am well aware this project could make me look like an idiot but the gun really looks impressive from the muzzle end. This is a pb deal only. no smokeless powder. Thanks for input

Sounds like you want a 500 A Square black powder only rifle. A single shot version should be simple enough, rented reamer for 30.00, fit barrel and fireform 460 brass with BE and COW. Now that you have brass just load up with bp and shoot your favorite cast bullet, one at a time should be all you need, around here anyway.

[nekshot]

Thanks swheeler, I never heard of that cartridge before. This is why I love this forum, better minds than mine can enlighten me of my ignorance of situations. I must check this out.

[oneokie]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=115952

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=50+razorback&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CE8QtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1QF R7D0rLPQ&ei=U3cRUNP9LILW6wHBoYHwCg&usg=AFQjCNHpOb6Js-Os7BBwsRy66fEQXipL8g

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=50+razorback&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CFUQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzA0 zBIHnJPQ&ei=U3cRUNP9LILW6wHBoYHwCg&usg=AFQjCNHkE78rT4b73768wXPUubSB_Sy0EQ

[Hardcast416taylor]

Perhaps using the "new" short ultra mag cases would negate the length problem in a Mauser action.Robert

[Red River Rick]

Interesting Idea!

One small problem, your 98 action won't be long enough to handle that case with a bullet seated into it. The .460 case just fits into the magazine well, with about 1/4" to spare, no more.

A P-17/14 action would work, but then that means starting from scratch.

Might be best to just use that .50 cal as it was made, a muzzle loader. Or, sell it off and start a new project. Same with the .460 brass, at almost $5 each, may be better to sell it as well.

RRR

[paul h]

You can use a shortened 460 case aka the 495 A-square. I don't have my A-square manual with me so don't recall what the case length is. As I recall it was designed for std length actions.

http://www.ammo-one.com/495-A-SquareQ.jpg

[Hardcast416taylor]

You can use a shortened 460 case aka the 495 A-square. I don't have my A-square manual with me so don't recall what the case length is. As I recall it was designed for std length actions.

http://www.ammo-one.com/495-A-SquareQ.jpg



The case length is 2.800" long The OAL of a loaded round Max length is 3.600" long.Robert

[Nobade]

Check out the threads on this forum regarding the 50 Razorback. Chop off 300 RUM brass at the shoulder, headspace on the mouth. Much cheaper brass than 460 Wby and would likely fit in your mag and bolt face. Should be about like a 50-90 to shoot.

[swheeler]

Thanks swheeler, I never heard of that cartridge before. This is why I love this forum, better minds than mine can enlighten me of my ignorance of situations. I must check this out.

You are welcome sir, and you are correct that it would take the 460 wby case to clean up those .566" breech plug threads, the RUM and WSM are not large enough in diameter. Sounds like a fun project let us know how it progresses.

[nekshot]

Fellas, you would not believe how many times over the last few years I wanted to sell this barrel just to get rid of the head ache of it all and then I look at it screwed on the action and I really like how it looks. So yesterday I glass bedded the action in stock and as far as I am concerned now I am beyond point of return. I appreciate all your input and and I guess its gonna( take a village) to bring the details together. When my daughter gets home I'll post some pictures. My son already wants to take it hunting this fall so I better hurry!

[softpoint]

The cartridge you are refering to based on the .460 Weatherby is the .505 Barnes Supreme. I believe the nominal bore size for that is .510? See P.O.Ackley's handbook volume2. It is the full length .460 necked up to .50. Single shot, unless you have a Weatherby or Magnum Mauser action. Full house smokeless loads in this caliber generate 10,000+ FPE. Best in a crew served weapon.......

[BK7saum]

If you're continuning with the project, have you considered 338 Lapua cases? While not cheap, they are apparently not as expensive as the 460. Lapua and or Hornady would be cheaper, possibly as good or better quality and easier to get, most likely.

Just a suggestion...

Of course, you might like the looks of the belt.

Brad

[swheeler]

I guess I misunderstood, I thought since the barrel was already threaded and contoured you just wanted to chamber with a cartridge large enough diameter to clean up the .566" breech plug threads, which the 460 wby and 338 lapwa cases will do. To use the RUM case you will have to cut off the threads, internal(breech plug) and external(98) rethread and chamber as the RUM case is not large enough in diameter to clean up the .566"bp threads. Now you have actually changed the barrel length and contour.

[nekshot]

swheeler, I really wanted to go large enough to clean up threads but I chickened out on the case volumn of the 460. I bought some 300 rem ultra brass and with shoulders cut off and powder packed in case to boolit base is 90 gr. This is perfect because this gun is coming in under 8 lbs with scope. I plan to turn rim down to standard diameter(rebated rim) so I don,t have to mess with bolt face and therefore if this project fails I can rebarrel to a sensible caliber. The 300 feeds thru the rails so I am obtimistic it will work. I am boring out threads on barrel and insert a cut off section of barrel off fall. This will then get the new chamber cut in. I decided on using a 50-90 reamer for barrel and die as this is almost perfect dimensions with 300 ultra. This is the route I was hoping to avoid originally but I would rather pack the case full of powder then deal with fillers. I have no buffalo gun expectations from this project. The barrel is a muzzle loader barrel and if it shoots close to my front loaders I will be happy.

[nekshot]

A few pictures of project. Yes that is rain water you see, it actually rained last nite. You gotta love that big hole!


46638

46639

[swheeler]

Nekshot; looking good butterknife and all, keep us posted as it progresses.

[nekshot]

I got all fired up over this project again as I finally gave up on a repeater and will only use it single shot. Yes I am a little thick but give me enough time and I catch up to reality! The easiest way thru this is to rent a 50-90 sharps reamer and hope the ulta brass expands in fire forming at base. I think!

[nekshot]

I made the reamer myself(olmost proud about that) old threads cleaned up nicely, polished up nice and shot it abunch this afternoon. Has a funny recoil, not hard just differant and a tremendous muzzle blast (I shoot thru a muffler). The cartridges seal good and extract perfect and keeping it a single shot is the way to go. I am going to let it lay till fall(cooler weather) and now I must make a die to seat boolits in cartridge and a sizer for the boolits. I don't know why I waited this long to do this, as this is almost more fun than an old geezer should have!For those that are wondering the reciever has another stock and other barrels it gets used for, all smokeless of course.