A nice load in a Marlin 1893 in .38-55. (photos).

[smithywess]

The .38-55 Ballard & Marlin is often considered tricky to handload for and I suppose it is with the many variations in groove diameter and chamber length but once a good load has been obtained, with perseverence, it's a dandy calibre. I have been happy with such a load in this rifle...

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/25aRight.jpg


http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/25bRight.jpg


Of all the medium burning rate powders in these large straight walled cases I have enjoyed I.M.R. 4198 and in this rifle 19.0 grains with a compressible filler of Dacron between the bullet and powder has given me the most consistent results. This target was shot at 50 yards from a sandbag rest with a chronographed speed of 1400 f.p.s. which is in keeping with it's blackpowder equivalent.


http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/38-55BallardMarlin5shotgroupJPG.jpg


The rifle slugs to .376" and I use the Lee flat nose/ flat base 255 grain bullet which falls from the mould at .380"/.381" but sized to .379" with a push through sizer, which I prefer. I use the R.C.B.S. Cowboy Action dies with a .379" expander. I trim the cases to 2.056" and with an O.A. Length of 2.322" the bullet is just short of the lands. I have had no leading with Lee's Alox tumble lube. I push the Dacron filler in with a small brass rod until it is compressible and eliminates all the air space. I think this filler allows for better burning characteristics and eliminates powder sensitivity even with I.M.R.4198 which isn't supposed to exhibit much.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/38-55filleredhandloadsJPG.jpg

Thanks.

[kliff]

Great looking rifle, and definitely some good results with your recipe.

[northmn]

One thing I think some forget is that the 38-55 started out life as a Schuetzen cartridge. No reason one should not shoot.

DP

[sharps4590]

Ain't no flys on the 38-55....and even fewer on that Marlin! Good doin's!!!!

[Marvin S]

Lookin good, something satisfying about it aint there. I have a Win 94 TD mfg 1895 in 38-55 that I hope to get a deer with this year.

[ajjohns]

Another fine one you have there! What fun when it pays off like that.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have a marlin model 36, 38-55. It was originally a 35 Remington, I had marlin put a new barrel (octogon) in 38-55 on it and they also put a new bolt, stock and forearm on it. It slugs out at .380 and I use the Lee boolit and size it to .380. The sizing die is stamped .379 but they come out .380 I don't get leading but so far it won't shoot as good as yours. I have not tried a fiber filler as yet, I'm afraid of ringing the chamber.

[smithywess]

I have a marlin model 36, 38-55. It was originally a 35 Remington, I had marlin put a new barrel (octogon) in 38-55 on it and they also put a new bolt, stock and forearm on it. It slugs out at .380 and I use the Lee boolit and size it to .380. The sizing die is stamped .379 but they come out .380 I don't get leading but so far it won't shoot as good as yours. I have not tried a fiber filler as yet, I'm afraid of ringing the chamber.

45-70 Chevroner,

It`s a very interesting calibre to work loads up in isn't it ? Be sure you will be rewarded if you persist. Would it be possible to fire your boolits unsized so that they might be .381" diameter which would seal your bore better. Or perhaps try a softer bullet alloy in the hopes it might bump up that extra thousandths of an inch to seal things off. Or a custom mould in .381"? You won't ring your barrel if you ensure that there is no air space left between the bullet and the filler ( i.e. compress it with the bullet). The other rule I practise is to follow Larry Gibson's advice not to use a filler with powders with a faster burning rate than I.M.R.4227.

[Whit Spurzon]

Beautiful rifle. Is that a Hepburn sight?

38-55 is a wonderful caliber. Mine has a generous chamber and bore, the Lee 250 shot well as cast ~.381". Later I had Accurate make me a mold and now it shoots even better.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/IMG_2838.jpg

I've had good luck with IMR 4198, SR 4759 and Unique.

[smithywess]

Whit,

I like that bullet made by Accurate moulds. Gone is the bevel base. Yes that's the 'combination receiver sight' developed by L.L.Hepburn and patented by Marlin on 3rd Aug 1903. After that the 1893 receivers were drilled and tapped to accept it while the "Marlin Safety" marking was moved a little toward the barrel so as not to be obscured by the sight should one wish to mount one. Hard to come by these days but a little more practical than a tang mounted sight.

[45-70 Chevroner]

45-70 Chevroner,

It`s a very interesting calibre to work loads up in isn't it ? Be sure you will be rewarded if you persist. Would it be possible to fire your boolits unsized so that they might be .381" diameter which would seal your bore better. Or perhaps try a softer bullet alloy in the hopes it might bump up that extra thousandths of an inch to seal things off. Or a custom mould in .381"? You won't ring your barrel if you ensure that there is no air space left between the bullet and the filler ( i.e. compress it with the bullet). The other rule I practise is to follow Larry Gibson's advice not to use a filler with powders with a faster burning rate than I.M.R.4227.

I haven't tried it yet, but that was on my list. I think maybe a double coat of 50-50 Lee liquid alox and mineral spirits, unsized will work. I will give the filler a try also.

[KirkD]

Very nice load indeed. That 3/4" group at 50 yards is excellent. Nice Marlin too! I'm looking forward to trying out my Accurate 38-72 mould bullets in my 38-55.

[Buckshot]

...........I have a wonderfull M93 in 38-55 also. The 38-55 is in all regards a scaled down 45-90, which in either 45 cal or 38 cal an exceeding well balanced cartridge.

http://www.fototime.com/47DD87E404FADAE/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/34A89A527939537/standard.jpg

It's a simply joy to handle, and equally so to shoot. Someone had an idea what they wanted back in 1906. Half octagon, round barrel with a half magazine, and the 'S' type buttstock.

http://www.fototime.com/881261E4534FC9E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/2EEBEF6922E233B/standard.jpg

LEFT: Swaged paper patched loaded for a Hi-Wall, and RIGHT: the Lee 250gr loaded for the M93. Loaded over 16.0grs of 2400, 20.0 grs of 4227, or 21.0grs of 4198 it simply does what it does :-)

http://www.fototime.com/D2244CBB5698496/standard.jpg

Bottom target is my favorite plinking load in this rifle. The Saeco #638 mould which is a 225gr FNPB slug over 16.0 grs of 2400. An economical load delivering 1600 fps and very good accuracy without any reloading voo-doo. Hard to beat for what it is and what it does.

..............Buckshot

[smithywess]

Buckshot,


I greatly enjoyed your post. I had seen a photo of your rifle (the .38-55) years ago and thought to myself 'what an incredible rifle' and now it surfaces again. What a coincidence. And how nice to see it again as I had lost the photo.

I also enjoyed your words ' it does what it does' because it's true,

Thanks again.

[northmn]

I could not get my Marlin to shoot until I used Starline Brass so I could chamber the as cast Lee bullets, A lot cheaper than chamber work. Still its too bad they cannot use WW brass and shoot. With Lee as cast it shoots very well.

DP

[Buckshot]

I also enjoyed your words ' it does what it does' because it's true. Thanks again.

............I wish (back when I had some bux) that I had purchased a few more 1893 Marlins. So far as I'm concerned they have it all over the 1894 Winchesters. Sorry guys, but there it is :-)

............Buckshot

[gandydancer]

The .38-55 Ballard & Marlin is often considered tricky to handload for and I suppose it is with the many variations in groove diameter and chamber length but once a good load has been obtained, with perseverence, it's a dandy calibre. I have been happy with such a load in this rifle...

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/25aRight.jpg


http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/25bRight.jpg


Of all the medium burning rate powders in these large straight walled cases I have enjoyed I.M.R. 4198 and in this rifle 19.0 grains with a compressible filler of Dacron between the bullet and powder has given me the most consistent results. This target was shot at 50 yards from a sandbag rest with a chronographed speed of 1400 f.p.s. which is in keeping with it's blackpowder equivalent.


http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/38-55BallardMarlin5shotgroupJPG.jpg


The rifle slugs to .376" and I use the Lee flat nose/ flat base 255 grain bullet which falls from the mould at .380"/.381" but sized to .379" with a push through sizer, which I prefer. I use the R.C.B.S. Cowboy Action dies with a .379" expander. I trim the cases to 2.056" and with an O.A. Length of 2.322" the bullet is just short of the lands. I have had no leading with Lee's Alox tumble lube. I push the Dacron filler in with a small brass rod until it is compressible and eliminates all the air space. I think this filler allows for better burning characteristics and eliminates powder sensitivity even with I.M.R.4198 which isn't supposed to exhibit much.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/smithywess/38-55filleredhandloadsJPG.jpg

Thanks.
I like that. is that a set of Skinner sights you have on that 93/38/55??

[smithywess]

Gandydancer,


I've sent you a PM.

Thanks.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes Smithy: I still have the Marlin sight pics you sent me and the project is still on the list of things to do.

For those that don't know, that sight he has on that gun is about as rare as a hen's tooth! It took me 3 years of looking and numerous letters and emails to various authorities to even get a decent picture of the underside of the sight.

Prior to seeing Smithys avatar Note: Same gun! The only decent pic I had of one came of the Turnbull website. I PM'd Smithy and he graciously sent me pics of the underside of the moving portion of the sight along with some dimensions, and I can now duplicate it, when time permits.

The reason for all of this is because that is the ONLY Peep sight that actually looks right on Marlin Rifle. Some are close, but this is the real thing!

The only one of these sights I have heard of that was sold went for $1100. This is what I "heard" from someone, but I doubt they knew what I was talking about as very few people even know this thing exists,, including some people from very promenent museums. (Cody)

I have never seen one in person and only seen four in pictures. Smithy is the only one I know of that actually owns and uses one.

Here's a pic of one of the two on Turnbulls sight This one is on a $35,000 1895. The other is plain and on a 1894 carbine in .44-40.

Randy

Just another quick thought? That gun has a 28" barrel doesn't it?

[ric44]

Is the dacron ok if used sensibley in the 38-55 ? Id like to try some of these loads when I get my 94 Winchester built but have heard some folks down on it and blaming ringed barrels on it. My rifle has a 1x14 twist barrel so should stabilize the 300gr bullets right?

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK now this is new term to me ,,, What exactly is Ringing a barrel?

and how and why does it happen?. Is this a bad thing.

Randy

[smithywess]

OK now this is new term to me ,,, What exactly is Ringing a barrel?

and how and why does it happen?. Is this a bad thing.

Randy

Randy,

Good to gear from you. Still waiting on a reproduction Hepburn receiver sight from you to put on my other rifles !! And no the barrel on that .38-55 is 26".

As for ringing a barrel it seems to me to be a very ill explained and inconsistent phenomenon whereby it's thought that if a rifle is held vertically and fired with a large air space in the case that unburned powder granules will act as a projectile and strike the base of the as yet unmoved bullet. Forces are then transmitted sideways to bulge the case and chamber at the level of the bullet base. Doesn't seem to happen with cases only partially filled with blackpowder. The other ostensible cause is when an over powder wad leaves a large air space between the wad and the base of the bullet. The wad is supposed to act as a projectile in this case to strke the bullet base and again forces are drivenlaterally to impinge upon the case neck and hence the chamber. All of these bad things can be eliminated by using compressible fillers so that there is no air space between filler and base of bullet. Or by stopping the use of fillers entirely and presumably never firing your rifle when pointed vertically upwards !! No one seems as yet to have a complete handle as to why the phenomenon occurs but it seems that it has to do with uncontrolled pressure spikes in one way or another. Personally I don't fire my rifles vertically, even when I'm celebrating, but at the same time I would like to be able to do so if I wished without damaging my rifle. Also, I am a believer in powder position sensitivity and it seems that very few smokeless loads produce case filling beyond about 50%-60% capacity and in spite of folk telling me that powders such as I.M.R. 4198 aren't position sensitive I don't believe them. For these reasons I use fillers and in the larger capacity cases I prefer Dacron. In the smaller cases I use Polyethylene Shot Buffer now. I adhere to the principles espoused by wiser men than I that the filler must be compressed and that no air space must remain between powder and bullet. I also follow the advice of Larry Gibson who advocated not to use fillers in cases charged with powders with a burning rate faster than 4227. Presumably this is because there are fewer uncontrolled pressure spikes such as are reputed to occur with a powder such as Unique. Neither do I use a filler if my smokeless powder capacity is greater than 80% of the case.

With these theoretical considerations in hand I haven't had any trouble and feel confident that, should I ever wish, that I can fire my rifles in the vertical position ! One thing I can confirm is that pressures are raised with the filler so I make sure I back the loads off before starting. The extreme spread by chronograph has been narrowed considerably by using fillers. Anyway that's the way I see it,

Thanks.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ok rather than try to understand this one any further, and since I have made to 62 without ever experiencing this phenomenon, I will resign myself to not shooting a satelites and other airborne objects, with the possible exception of those new spy drones all the local police departments are trying to get. If they violate my airspace, they will be shot down!

The idea that a police dept would even consider using this type of equipment is beyond my understanding.

Sounds like much ado about nothing.

Randy