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View Full Version : Reflections on the use of Recluse's 45-45-10 Tumble Lube



Dale53
07-24-2012, 12:03 PM
The Green Frog was visiting here from Virginia for a few days. Of course, we were casting bullets (yeah, even tho' we had some 100 degree days) and working with our beloved .32's.

I have a Lee Six Cavity mold for the .32-90gr-WC TL bullet (no longer offered by Lee, dern it) that I bought from a gentleman on this forum. I had it for some time but had not used it. I had been using my Group Buy 100 gr Keith for my .32's with excellent results but with Froggie here, we decided to try it out.

I have both Lyman and RCBS sizers but most all of my pistol and revolver bullets are sized and lubed on a Star lube/sizer that I have had for about forty years. Hundreds of thousands of bullets have gone through the Star. I had never tumble lubed as I really had no reason to try it (until now).

I went to the sticky with Recluse's excellent instructions (complete with good photos) on just how he uses his formula for tumble lube.

We followed his directions to the letter. Everything went as planned. The only change we made was we did NOT size these bullets. They cast quite large for my revolvers but that is the intended way with TL bullets. You can choose to size or leave them as is (if you can chamber them that large). I only lubed them once. I used a light coating as Recluse recommends.

I decided to use the C.E. (Ed) Harris method of loading. His method does not size the cases but merely decaps them. I have a couple of Dillon 550B's (one for large and one for small primers). The first die on my Dillon with these bullets merely decaps the cases (you can use a Lee Universal decapping die or any pistol die larger than .32 - say a .38 Special). The second stage only bells the case when it drops the powder (since the case is not sized it is too large internally for the expander to touch the case sides). These rather large, as cast, bullets are big enough that there is enough friction when seated for them to stay in place when seated in the third die station in an unsized case. This die merely seats the bullet to the proper over all length. Then, into the Lee Factory Crimp die that crimps the bullet and sizes the bullet (almost without effort) with the carbide ring at the mouth of the die.

After running through the press, the cases are noticeably bigger when entering the chambers of my revolvers. They do NOT require effort to load but they don't rattle around in the chambers, either. I believe that is a plus.

Of course, the real test is when we went to the range. After shooting a cylinder full to condition the bore, it seems that the TL wadcutters are going to shoot really well. My preliminary tests with 2.8 grs of Bullseye in the .32 H&R Magnum cases shot under 1½" at 25 yards.. Frankly, I believe with a bit of adjusting powder charges these will shoot even better.

I couldn't believe how easy it is to lube the bullets. I left them lie for a day or so to dry. They worked well in Froggie's .32's also. He had an out of production Lyman wadcutter with conventional lube grooves he tried and they seemed to do fine in his antique Smith's (I-frames) also. We got absolutely no leading but the important thing is that they shot well.

I have now added a new lubing method to my barrel of tricks as has the Green Frog.

I would like to thank Recluse for his excellent tutorial (who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?) and also those others who have reported favorably on this fine lube in this Forum.

It might be an idea for someone who wants one of these Lee moulds to consider a Group Buy. My mould is a dandy (original Lee) and you can cast bullets just like shelling corn. Ed Harris' method of dealing with the Lee TL bullets has MUCH merit. Thank you, too, Ed.

Dale53

geargnasher
07-24-2012, 03:37 PM
Indeed it works. Many years ago as a starving college student living in an old travel trailer I'd fixed up nicely for my needs I tried the tumble-lube method, as I could neither afford a lube-sizer nor did I have the space for one. A couple of my friends and I decided to try to improve the liquid Alox to make it dry faster, since there was limited space and time for drying (dried them on a cookie sheet over the gas range/casting bench with the vent-hood going), and with the aid of a lab-assistant friend and some dubious permission to access the chemistry lab we settled on a blend of about 50/50 de-watered Turtle Wax and Liquid Alox thinned with various solvents. Turpentine and worked pretty well, but we ended up trying lots of things. The results were much better than plain Alox, smoked less, and seemed a bit more accurate in my J.P. Saur K-38 target copy. I don't know how many thousands of rounds went through that gun so lubed at the local trash pit, but it was a bunch. I'd trade quart bottles of Miller High Life and MD 20/20 for wheel weights at the local, low-rent used tire store. They didn't have a jack, they had a guy they called "Poco" who simply lifted cars off the ground so they could stack blocks under them to remove the wheels. Good times.

Recluse's formula is better though.

Gear

btroj
07-24-2012, 07:32 PM
ME 20/20? You were a poor college student, weren't you?

geargnasher
07-25-2012, 02:42 AM
Poco loved it and it was cheap, he and the guys kept me in boolit lead. I was one of those unfortunate white boys from a middle-class family that made too much money for me to qualify for federal grants, and only minimal loans, but not enough to help me much, so I worked and lived on next to nothing. Hence the liquid Alox/turtle wax development for lube.

Gear

fryboy
07-25-2012, 05:28 AM
ummmm ...."I couldn't believe how easy it is to lube the bullets."

what took you so long ? :kidding:

i always liked the tumble lube concept , i just didnt care for the LLA straight , thinning it a wee bit did help somewhat but ... there was still some tackiness left as well as alox's distinctive smell , recluse's recipe helped alot !! ( on both counts as well as drying time ) while i'll never give up my lubrasizers the tumble lube method sure made life alot easier !! nice write up btw !

Green Frog
07-25-2012, 08:38 AM
I had used LLA to tumble some rifle bullets (bi-ii-ig 45-70s for one of my high-walls) years ago, but since I was loading some black powder at the same time, I needed a bit more lube and lube residue, so I went to Emmert's and either pan lubed or used a Lubri-Sizer. Now that my interests have come around to revolvers again, this looks like a technique I'll enjoy and benefit from. I have to say that the "Recluse Technique" makes less of a mess than the way I did it 25 years ago! ;-)

Keep in mind that this technique must intersect with one of two other events; you must either have a mould that drops bullets within a couple of thousandths oversize from your bore, or you must use a die like Dale's Factory Crimp from Lee to essentially swage the bullets inside the case... otherwise you get a round that looks "top heavy" and may not enter the chamber. :groner: Of course you could size the lubed bullet, but then you've just gone back to sizing and haven't gained anything. [smilie=b:

Regards,
Froggie

PS Don't forget that you will need to have the Recluse-type LLA mixture warm enough to "flow" well onto the bullets you tumble. :D

DrCaveman
07-27-2012, 06:43 PM
One more vote here for the Recluse improvement over straight LLA. I really like how quickly it dries and how little it smokes. And my bore looks awesome after as many rounds as I want to shoot.

It took me several thousand rounds of using straight LLA per Lee's instructions to even try the recluse formula. To other new casters, I implore you, give it a try!

I suspect you will be pleased.

shredder
07-27-2012, 09:13 PM
I am converted as well. I shoot 8mm mauser,7.62x39, 30/06, and .223 all with recluse 40/40/10. Works very well at my velocities. 1600-1800 fps. Never seen leading in anything except the SKS gas piston, and that was very light.

Elkins45
07-28-2012, 08:04 AM
Conventional lubrisizer lubing is the last thing I try on my list to get it to shoot well. I will almost always try a boolet with tumble lube first and see if it shoots OK. Lubesizing adds so much time and extra labor to the casting process, and it's just dull monotony. I enjoy casting, but lubing is just work.

Green Frog
07-29-2012, 07:12 AM
My standard strategy has been to try to get rifle bullets to shoot "as cast" by simply lubing them with a hand pump or pan lube, but then I have expected to load pistols and revolvers with bullets that have been mass produced then machine (press) sized and lubed. This is different, so I am having to tread lightly as I see how things work. ;)

Froggie