Waiting breathless

[Kenny Wasserburger]

After reading Iron Mike's issues, and I hope they are resolved in his favor, I do not wish to derail that thread or browbeat anyones choice over the brand of rifle they purchase. Or argue the meirts of buying a cheaper rifle.

EDK made a statement about many Pedersoil's beating Shiloh and C Sharps rifles on a steady basis in competition. I like Don M. would like to see this list where the Pedersoli's have won so many BPCR competitons. A listing of regional or national, Long Range or Silhouette Champions would suffice for me.

Again this would be BPCR competitons, not long range muzzle loaders where the Pedersoili gibs has no real competition against it.

We see threads on match grade barrels and how made of the finest German Machine gun steels, add nausim, Yet these Machinegun barrels so far have yet to win a national Creedmoor or Silhouette Championship yet?? IN Creedmoor I have attended every Nationals since it's inception, have yet to see a pedersoili in the winners circle there to date. The same holds true for Silhouette since 1996 at least. (thats when I started to play that game.)
At the recent Winter Nationals Creedmoor, Day 1 two of the top Rifles 3rd and 4th place were Shiloh's stock Shiloh's the other two rifles were rebarreled original borchardt and Highwall with Kriger barrels. Twer narry a Putter Chello in the top 10.

So Please enlighten us dullards.

As the old man said lets see the color of your money. Or in plain English, SHOW ME.

The Lunger
KW

[Ed in North Texas]

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but was the title a total pun? :kidding:

Ed

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Lunger---breathless, ya know.:razz:


I am still waiting caught my breath though.

When I read a blanket statement such as that [smilie=l::takinWiz: I am bound too ask for some facts to back up such a statement.:razz:

KW
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

Well he gave the almost predictable answer.... lots of bluster but not one thing to back his claims.....

[EDG]

McDee you asked for back up
I asked for the same.

Take a big hit of oxygen and get some air to that brain....

Got any facts or data that connect match results to the pure accuracy of the rifles?
Facts that comparable rifles exhibit in machine rests with the same ammunition all with the original barrels?

You don't have it, all you are trying to do is connect Shiloh to match results without considering ammo or shooter.
Have you ever owned or shot a Pedersoli to give one a fair trial?

What does it say about the Browning BPCRs that are so successful against all comers in the same matches?

[Don McDowell]

Yup just what I figured , make the claim fail to answer the challenge to proove up. All you can do is try and distract. The challenge is still there, proove up you claim that Pedersoli's are more accurate than Shilohs.
As to your claim on the Brownings, yessir there are a number of those shooting quite well, but then we come back full circle, why no Pederosoli's?????

[Kenny Wasserburger]

So far even with this magic steel claimed to not wander on heating up, none yet have won anything of any note anywhere in the USA?:takinWiz::violin: Dick had a standing offer to send any national champion shooting a Pedersoli to Italy for a vacation, never fullfilled as of yet.

So much for a blanket statment: :brokenima

Lastly: I have not seen any Shiloh Nightmare threads.

The Current crop of Shilohs, since 1992 have been built by the BRYAN Family and none of them have the old PP throat EDK mentions, those are the old Wolfgang Schoffsthall Rifles. EDK you kinda remind me of a liberal leftest Media type " got some of the facts right and then twist the S___T outa the rest of it to suit you."

So EDK your 20 years late or outa touch take your pick sport.

Now one can get a lemon outa any company US or overseas, stuff does and will happen. Making things right? well thats a major reason for Shiloh's loyal customer Base, and many many repeat buys.

Years ago at Raton, Dick Trenk was standing next to me as he was about to present Pedersoli's first rifle at the nationals. He winked and hefted the rifle, I smiled back, good for you guys Dick, at this time Shiloh has donated $250,000 in rifles at matches from here to all over the USA. You guys are only $248,500 behind now. [smilie=w:[smilie=w:

Dick's face had a pretty sober look on it after I said that. We still went out and had dinner together though. I liked the little guy, his racing stories and knowledge of old cars were fun to hear and I enjoyed time with him. Did not always agree but we were friends.

KW
The Lunger

[hightime]

I would think the most obessed cometitive shooters will gravitate to the best and most expensive rifles. Naturally they will be the ones to win the most shoots. If arrogance goes with it it will ruin the sport. Just because you buy the most expensive and best quality gun doen't make you a great person. Matter of fact it's revolting.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Owen grab a clue, you can buy a Shiloh for 200$ less than the Pedersoli Dixie has listed .
Matter of fact you can make a Shiloh hartford into what Pedersoli used to sell as the "quigley" for 22$ more than Cabela's in Sidney has one of those Pedersoli's on the rack for.
You made the statement that your pedersoli was better looking and would outshoot any Shiloh, yet you still offer nothing to back that up...
So what's your basis for those statements?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Owen,

ha you need to get out more, some of the guys I shoot with have custom built rifles not my semi-stock Shilohs, often their rifle by time the have a master smith build it up, cost more then what I spent on a shiloh.
As for me being a great person? ha not hardly your the one that Hung that on me bub.

I will admit Dora, a total custom Heavy rifle, built just the way I want it runs right up there with a Cody built Ballard Long range rifle in cost, or a Krieger barreled Borchardt built by Storie or that Angus fella in MT.

Funny, I never made a single disparaging remark about iron mike or you, What I find revloting is your sorry lack of manners. I asked for some Examples of Pedersoli's winning out. You came over here on this thread with NUTING! except insults. We sure got to see the color of your water didn't we!

The Lunger KW

[hightime]

I never said My guns better than yours, I'm sure it's not. I never said Peds would out shoot A Montana gun. I just said you guys shouldn't tell anyone they should have bought another brand. That by doing so it was no help to the guy at all. I do know the best shooters shoot Shiloh. I can see that. I would think they would do alright with a Ped. Maybe ? So what's to prove? If I see your name at the top of those winners, It still doen't change who you are.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Owen nobody ever said he should of bought one of the Montana built rifles. I did say that had he of had a Shiloh with a problem , that problem would of been taken care of well before the first warranty gunsmith sent the rifle back to him telling him all was well.
You however did say.
I remember when $200 meant nothing to me. Ah to return to that thinking again. I havn't seen a Shiloh that looked a smigin better than my Ped. or shot better either.

Owen

[bigted]

srry bout this...cant help but see the humor and a paralel with another sport i have been involved in for a lifetime...

in my semi illustrious career as a motorcycle enthuesiest i have been involved in and heard the same dribble from lots of wanta-be's they claim super better performance from their rice grinders and the long milage of the cruddy looking things but yet the rice eaters continue to try to make their pile of poo look and try to make em sound like a genuine harley...of any year. never heard of a 1936 honda did you? havnt seem a 1947 yamahappi! dont know where a feller would find a 1913 kowasakiii...and furthermore the very folks that shout the loudest about their rice grinding *** are the very ones that turn around and **** on their former friends when they actually find the scratch to buy an origanal motorcycle from an american ledgend.

sound familiar??? yet nobody has stated that this poor fella SHOULDA or COULDA!!! simply that the runaround dont happen with the american makers...and when and if it does then the shame will be on them...but guess what fellers.......they continue with their super client friendly service that made them what they are today. their envious position is hard earned...not a free ride...all american!!

now i have a stake in this as i own both an italian sharps longrange rifle that i love and also one of those hated shilohs...my shiloh is a heartford and as plain as they come...not withstanding the silver forarm cap... and yet...it most resembles the rifles packed in yesterday by the iron men that roamed the prarie. i try to load and shoot it like the origanal was meant to be handled. i removed the wrist mounted sharps style longrange site and re-installed the origanal looking full buckhorn it came with.

i feel about this simple shiloh like i feel about the harleys i own...and yet...also in my stable are found browning bpcr 45-70...winchester hiwall hunter...browning custom hiwall 38-55 with a heavy winchester #4 contour barrel...my uberti longrange sharps...a marlin 45-70 and my little ruger 45-70.......all these rifles get excercized from time to time and yet the two i always have on my mind are the shiloh and the browning bpcr. they are my fun guns and they continue to take most of my time at the testing bench.

allow me to say that without proof...folks should just butt out with the blowhard and continue with their playing and experimenting with their toys...whichever they be.

this is just plain stupid for men to spend even a minute trying to outdo folks that not only are there but have been there and bought the shirt. learned a long time ago to follow the leaders and maybe someday i can be in the leaders circle too.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Owen,

Do a quick check you wont find a single post from me over on Iron Mikes thread about anything, this you guys thing?

I asked for some results proving EDK's statements, what I got from you was insults about me being a competitive shooter nothing more.

No where did I do any insults on his choice of rifle, However I got some Adhoc attacks from your sorry butt.

The Lunger KW

[EDK]

I asked for some results proving EDK's statements, what I got from you was insults about me being a competitive shooter nothing more.

The Lunger KW

YOU owe me a drink and an apology! (I'll be wearing the white Atwood buckaroo hat at the Q next summer if I'm alive and kicking.) McDowell maybe. Refer to the other thread and post#5 in this one.....EDG is the Pedersoli defender who has offended some people.

I'm the EDK retired from Labadie Power Plant in MO. Living in Granite City IL for 20 years when there were FIVE steel foundries operating; 41+ years working in power plants burning Powder River Basin coal; and smoking for 45 years ain't exactly helped my lungs either.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

PS 50/90 SHILOH SHARPS LONG RANGE EXPRESS delivered February 2005; enough said!

[Kenny Wasserburger]

ooohhhhh Gezzz,

My Bad LOL

EDK! an I do owe you one!

[Don McDowell]

EDK it was good to see you for the brief time at the Q. Hope to catch you again when we can sit and visit some more.

[Red River Rick]

I couldn't find a picture with a guy having his foot in his mouth...............

RRR

[EDK]

Thanks guys...all is forgiven. We're still friends.

UNFORTUNATELY, this is the old FORD versus CHEVY argument. MOST of us will recognize who has a great product...super warranty and customer service...and devoted fans to prove it. Kind of "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand." My experience with various imports hasn't been very good. "Horror stories" on various forums...especially from people who shoot A LOT!...tell what brand you want to buy.

It's too damn hot to do much but play with the computer. Last Friday was the first day under 90 degrees in weeks and it's back close to 105 on my outside thermometer...on the east side of the reloading shack in the SHADE!

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[Don McDowell]

Ed it's an even 100 on the shady side of the cottonwood tree behind the house . I don't even want to know what the cheap plastic weather machine says it is....
We had a massive lightning attack last night, and by the grace of god the rain came and dowsed the fire just as it was about 100 yds from one of the neighbors farmsteads....
I'm looking forward to the first day the snow is up to my boot tops...

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Oh well Rick we all make mistakes, I do Owe EDK a cold one or two. Haha.

Course, I do not recall asking you to jump in on me. LOL

Thats Ok, I got broad shoulders.

But thus:

I can Buy My moulds in accordance too. Vote-voice your opinion, with your pocket book I say. I have a long Memory, of mould makers that Kick a fella after he made his amends.

KW
The Lunger

[TXGunNut]

I would think the most obessed cometitive shooters will gravitate to the best and most expensive rifles. Naturally they will be the ones to win the most shoots. If arrogance goes with it it will ruin the sport. Just because you buy the most expensive and best quality gun doen't make you a great person. Matter of fact it's revolting.

Owen,


I've been a racer and a comp shooter. One thing is true of both endeavors; the top competitors know what works. If you want to plow the same ground they've already sweated (and spent $$$) over use whatever you want. We have some seasoned and sucessful BPCR shooters here, I value their experience and advice.

[Red River Rick]

Oh well Rick we all make mistakes, I do Owe EDK a cold one or two. Haha.

Course, I do not recall asking you to jump in on me. LOL

Mr. Wasserbuger:

I couldn't agree more....................it's obvious by my comment in post 19! And I wasn't jumping on you! Simply commenting on the truth, nothing more.





Thats Ok, I got broad shoulders.


I'm aware of that. And truly respect you for that.




But thus:

I can Buy My moulds in accordance too. Vote-voice your opinion, with your pocket book I say. I have a long Memory, of mould makers that Kick a fella after he made his amends.

KW
The Lunger


I'm sorry you feel that way. How you spend your money is entirely your business.

In the 5+ years, that I've been machining adjustable paper patch bullet moulds, you've never made any inquiry or even made reference to my moulds. So, why would you all of a sudden be interested?

Besides, they are an "Import", so I doubt my product would fit into the realm of American made components and products required to achieve the degree of shooting that you aquire.

With Respect.
:drinks:

Rick Kalynuik
KAL Tool & Die

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Well it seems Ole EDG and Owen just plain hate match shooters, accuracy buffs.

narry a post one, on the Tons of Pedersoli wins in BPCR.

Oh yeah.

The Lunger

[Longwood]

I shoot a Pedersoli.
I use iron sights.
I have old eyes.
I need a few more excuses.:roll:

Anyone have some?

[45 2.1]

After reading Iron Mike's issues, and I hope they are resolved in his favor, I do not wish to derail that thread or browbeat anyones choice over the brand of rifle they purchase. Or argue the meirts of buying a cheaper rifle.

EDK made a statement about many Pedersoil's beating Shiloh and C Sharps rifles on a steady basis in competition. I like Don M. would like to see this list where the Pedersoli's have won so many BPCR competitons. A listing of regional or national, Long Range or Silhouette Champions would suffice for me.

Again this would be BPCR competitons, not long range muzzle loaders where the Pedersoili gibs has no real competition against it.

We see threads on match grade barrels and how made of the finest German Machine gun steels, add nausim, Yet these Machinegun barrels so far have yet to win a national Creedmoor or Silhouette Championship yet?? IN Creedmoor I have attended every Nationals since it's inception, have yet to see a pedersoili in the winners circle there to date. The same holds true for Silhouette since 1996 at least. (thats when I started to play that game.)
At the recent Winter Nationals Creedmoor, Day 1 two of the top Rifles 3rd and 4th place were Shiloh's stock Shiloh's the other two rifles were rebarreled original borchardt and Highwall with Kriger barrels. Twer narry a Putter Chello in the top 10.

So Please enlighten us dullards.

As the old man said lets see the color of your money. Or in plain English, SHOW ME.

The Lunger
KW


Well it seems Ole EDG and Owen just plain hate match shooters, accuracy buffs.

narry a post one, on the Tons of Pedersoli wins in BPCR.

Oh yeah.

The Lunger

I see no indication BPCR was refered to...... and this is from your statements i've put in bold blue text. Perhaps there exists competition outside of what you do that you think less of....................

Shiloh does indeed make fine rifles, but I really don't think those rifles are more accurate than other well put together rifles. Your bashing of other peoples products really isn't helping you here.
Entirely too much drama in this thread

[hightime]

Not to feed the troll, but I did look up some match results, and you're right. Shiloh wins a lot. I do think those great shooters could do OK with Pedersolis. I don't have a Shiloh and don't need or want one now. If I'm in the market, I'll surely price out a Shiloh. I still love my gun and it shoots awsume. I enjoy it throughly. Is that OK with you?

Owen

[MT Chambers]

I don't care for all the sniping either, but if someone has a problem/s with a product, i like to hear about it. For my money, and being canadian, I would buy a U.S. made rifle every time, I just happen to think that C. Sharps are #1.

[EDG]

I thought I would quote myself from the other thread for Windy Whataburger's benefit since he seemed to have thought this meant BPCR competition. Please notice that it does not say anything about competition nor about black powder. What it does say that in a side by side comparison I think the Pedersoli's will shoot right along with any Sharps factory model reproduction. If he wants a challenge he should take on all brands. I shoot both Browning and Pedersoli rifles. The Pedersolis shoot right along with the Brownings. It is a well established fact that the Browning Highwall rank right in the top of many BPCR competitions........
Is Windy saying that he never gets beaten by a Browning?






QUote from the other thread
The Pedersoli is know to compare well or exceed the accuracy of the Shilohs.
So far as I know no Pedersolis were never made with that inch long throat that reduces the rifle's accuracy and its resale value. You can't say that about Shiloh.
__________________
EDG
EDG is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message

[hickstick_10]

Prove that pedersoli shoots side by side with a current production shiloh. We're not talking about highwalls here.

Dragging up the old wolf chamber is alot like dragging out the old pedersoli roling blocks with the brass trigger guard and the extracter that let the shells be chambered in front of it. Its really grasping at straws.

[45 2.1]

Prove that pedersoli shoots side by side with a current production shiloh. We're not talking about highwalls here.

Dragging up the old wolf chamber is alot like dragging out the old pedersoli roling blocks with the brass trigger guard and the extracter that let the shells be chambered in front of it. Its really grasping at straws.

First, let me say that I don't know anything about what matches any of you shoot, but I can tell you something about rifle accuracy. These tests were from the 90's somewhere just after Browning came out with their BPCR and their Traditional Hunters. I have lots of friends who like Shilohs, C Sharps, Remington RBs (original and new production besides the Navy Arms models), Browning along with all the old period rifles, which I tested also. The 1874, no matter who made it is NOT on top of the accuracy list. That honor went to a Remington rolling block by Navy Arms followed very closely by the Browning Tradional Hunters, then the Browning BPCR then the Shilohs. All the Shilohs shot were capable of under MOA accuracy, in either BP or SP. The others mentioned precedeing the Shilohs did quite a bit better. The older period rifles were about equal with the Shilohs, either period, Farmingdale or new production. Trapdoors came in about 2 MOA when the sights were shaded well. That much maligned Wolf chambered Farmingdale did MOA with full BP loads BTW.....................and it was a 45-120. It all depends on just what you put in it as to how well it does.

[5shotbfr]

one thing i noticed at the few bpcr shoots i have went to .. the shilohs seem to out number everything else by a fair margin .. i have to wonder if this acounts for why you see them in the winners circle so much .

i personaly dont have a single doubt that the fit and finish and overall craftsmanship is much better in the montana built rifles .

one thing i havent had proved to me yet is that they will out shoot my $900 cabalas marked plain jane pedersoli business rifle.

can most of the guys out shoot me .. yes they can .. and they have proved it

one final observation on the shiloh bpcr crowd ( this doesnt reflect on the very nice rifles ) they can often be equipment snobs

[waksupi]

Chicken Thief you're a real class act pal and hopefully one of the moderators will delete that ***-hole post you made.

You are right, sorry we missed it. Just use the report button for things like that, we will take care of it.

[Pat I.]

Thanks Waksupi. I deleted my post also.

[45 2.1]

You are right, sorry we missed it. Just use the report button for things like that, we will take care of it.


Thanks Waksupi. I deleted my post also.

Good Call............ that post (on the other thread) was in rather poor taste.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

EDG,

Your kinda beating a dead horse or are just to dumb to know that the Current Shiloh's since 1991 have not had the long throat. And that was the previous Owner? I asked for this proof of comparison test, be it match results or what? I mean really competiton is a pretty good acid test.
All I get is your gas, and it aint windy if you can do it. Love your slights insults, Would ALSO love to meet you in person some day sport.

Since you can not back up any of your claims with any sort of proof, I Say the only wind-Gas around here is your buddy!

KW
The Lunger