Crazy people on Ebay

[gbrown]

This may not sit right with some, but I gotta say this. I track Hensley Gibbs molds on Ebay. Bought a nice 6 cavity 9 mm not long ago. I noticed the other day there was a #43 HG (173 grain .358) that was going for a high price. Looked at it and it was a 2 cavity! Watched it. Right now it is about 40 minutes til close. $264.99:shock: Checked Ballisticast site. 643 (their equivalent) 6 cavity $250.00!!! This is beyond stupidity. Must have a lot more money than sense!!! LOL don't come close.

[Texasflyboy]

Must have a lot more money than sense!!! LOL don't come close.

Agree! Way more money than sense!8-)

[Reg]

Don't ya just love a auction !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bigsmyl2:

[12DMAX]

W.e.toddid

[MtGun44]

Just so you know - I believe that Texasflyboy is/was one of the bidders on the H&G 43 mold
on eBay - so I expect his reply is pure sarcasm. :bigsmyl2:

Some people really, really prefer the old, original H&G molds, and no substitutes
are good enough, and they can afford to pay what it takes to get what they want. I have a
number of original H&G molds and they are definitely excellent molds. However, I also have
some MP molds that are as good or even better, IMO, so I'm not going to get wild on the
bidding. I have bought my H&Gs "right", but I am not able to always afford to buy what
I want, so I look for bargains on the designs I really want from H&G like 68 flat base,
50 gang mold, and a few others. My MP 503 is a jewel of extremely high quality and
satisfies that slot just fine, in MY opinion. Some are not satisfied this way.

Also - some folks are overseas and cannot buy the molds at retail at all, and many dealers
will not ship overseas, while some eBay sellers will. Viewing everything through USA only
colored glasses misses out on some of the reality.

Bill

[Huntducks]

If you think ebay people are nuts shop around on CL what some people are asking for rusty Mec presses and old junk C presses makes me want to :takinWiz:

Even the adds here at times are outragous guys trying to sell current production used molds for retail[smilie=l:

I [smilie=l:at the guy who says check out the price at midway i'm 10% less.

i'll only pay at most 25-35 cents on the $1.00 for current used production stuff, and 50- 65 cents on used out of stock or collectable.

[Rhino]

G'day All,

E-bay, sometimes a win, sometimes a loose.
I picked up a H & G 148grn Wadcutter mold #50 10 cavity for $140 last year, win.
But I've seem others go for very high prices.....

It gets annoying when a lot of US sellers won't ship overseas.

Mtgun44 said it all, overseas buyers sometimes have little choice about whats available, so paying 'e-bay' prices to get stuff sent to you is often the only way, some shops charge like a wounded bull for postage.

[Jack Stanley]

For some , only the real deal will do and if the piece in question covers the need you have why not ? I was surprised to see a forty-one caliber mold sell for huge dollars some time back . Hey , I even bid a excellent condition H&G number thirty-four up to over two hundred sixty bucks and still lost .

For discontinued molds Ebay is almost the only game in town . I asked Ballisticast to cut a mold for me using one of the designs they made years ago for rifle . After cost of cutting a cherry and then making the mold it was over five hundred bucks and they kept the cherry . On Ebay I lucked out and found a new old stock Lyman of a very similar design and got it for under two hundred .

I suspect that if the bidding goes right on this particular H&G , sometime in the future we will get to see another work of art from the man in Oregon . If we are real lucky maybe get to see a family photo ( hint , hint , wink )

For some molds I'm old enough to know better , just not old enough to resist the urge .:smile:

Jack

[gbrown]

First of all, I apologize if anyone feels insulted by my first post. Just my observations. I guess I was raised too frugally. I suppose there are people who collect things who are willing to pay exorbitant prices for things. Collectors will go to extremes to get something no one else possesses. I just never have been one to do that.

[375RUGER]

I don't know what it's like to have more money than sense, but I'd sure like to find out.:guntootsmiley:

[fecmech]

Gbrown: Like you I've been a pretty frugal (friends say cheap!) guy all my life. Sometimes you just want something and are willing to pay the price. About a week ago I dropped $1500. for a half hour ride in a P-51 Mustang. My brother looked at me like I was crazy when I told him about it. I enjoyed every minute of it and glad I did it. I'm 69 and have finally realized it's only money, not much good till you use it for something you like.

[FISH4BUGS]

Must have a lot more money than sense!!!

I resemble that remark. Only I wish I had more money.......
If you really want a mould, you pay whatever you need to. It is not an investment, it is a tool. I paid $300 for a H&G 2 cavity #51 factory hollow point WITHOUT HANDLES!.
It is the only one I have ever seen, and TexasFlyBoy said he has one, so that makes two that I have seen in my collecting lifetime.
Is it worth it? To me, yes. To someone else? Maybe? To others? No way.
You forget after a while what you paid for it and the pain goes away. But you have the mould and they don't.
We all have our limits. H&G is H&G. It isn't anyone else. The quality is unmatched mainly because of the quality of the steel and the workmanship. These men were artisans in their days and their precision work cannot ever be duplicated.
From what I understand, the H&G's are made from a alloy called meehanite. Not many are made like that any more.

[Mark85304]

This may not sit right with some, but I gotta say this. I track Hensley Gibbs molds on Ebay. Bought a nice 6 cavity 9 mm not long ago. I noticed the other day there was a #43 HG (173 grain .358) that was going for a high price. Looked at it and it was a 2 cavity! Watched it. Right now it is about 40 minutes til close. $264.99:shock: Checked Ballisticast site. 643 (their equivalent) 6 cavity $250.00!!! This is beyond stupidity. Must have a lot more money than sense!!! LOL don't come close.

Be careful...I made a similar post about a .22 cal mould on ebay...said I thought it was rigged...was summarily reamed a new one. I publicly apologized and acknowledged the gaff, but to no avail.

[Silver Hand]

Opportunity sometime only knocks once.
If that is the best mould you have seen after looking at others, price may be a consideration and for some it may be out of reach.
Once there was no Ebay and in my part of the world many things may never appeared at all. I don't like Cities and money is hard to come by. But if it will satisfy a need I will pay the price for hi quality. I surely don't want to die rich and miss the dreams I had along the way.
Thinking about H.G. moulds has anyone seen the price go down lately?

[gbrown]

Be careful...I made a similar post about a .22 cal mould on ebay...said I thought it was rigged...was summarily reamed a new one. I publicly apologized and acknowledged the gaff, but to no avail.

Yeah, touchy feelings all about. I didn't mean to cause a stir. Just my perspective. There are innumerable things I will never afford. Sucks to be me, I guess. I'm a capitalist, and if there is someone doing better than me, what can I say? Sucks to be me. :cry: I was raised by people who had hard times during the Great Depression, worked their way out of it and never wanted for what they needed. As my quote says--how I was raised, who I am.

[Mark85304]

Yeah, touchy feelings all about. I didn't mean to cause a stir. Just my perspective.

In my opinion, the pot needs a good stir now and again (I enjoy reading the responses). I'm 100% on board with you on this one. I work way too hard for my money to pay some prices I see on ebay. What really cracks me up are the people who will bid something on ebay and pay the same or more (plus inflated shipping) than can be purchased at full retail price with a few seconds search on the internet.

[FISH4BUGS]

Yeah, touchy feelings all about. I didn't mean to cause a stir. Just my perspective. I was raised by people who had hard times during the Great Depression, worked their way out of it and never wanted for what they needed. As my quote says--how I was raised, who I am.

No offense taken nor I am sure intended.
But it IS interesting to see the differing attitudes. Some have a little more disposable income than others - that is just the way life is.
There are some things I won't pay crazy prices for - prewar Colts and S&W's. It is often easier to buy a $200-300 mould on ebay than pay $2500-3500 for a beauty of a Colt New Service Target. My pride and joy cast bullet shooter is a 5 screw pre Model 29 S&W 44 mag. paid some $750 for it a number of years ago. Would I buy that gun now? Can't afford it.....$2,000 is a deal. $2500 is about average.
I bought my machine guns many years ago. Paid $750 for a Colt M16. Now? $15,000. Macs at $400. Now? $3000. S&W 76 was $500. Now? $6000. So who can afford that now?
We all work hard for our money. My 87 year old mother talks about eating onion sandwiches during the depression. Most of us in our 60's and up had parents that lived through the depression.
You buy what you can afford. Simple as that. Just like cars. Just like guns. A $250 sporterized Mauser 98 will kill a deer just as dead as a custom built Griffin & Howe rifle.
It all depends..........

[bosterr]

fecmech... where do I get in line for a Mustang ride!!!

[Texasflyboy]

fecmech... where do I get in line for a Mustang ride!!!

There are at least 2 two seater Mustangs out there that I know of.

One is in Florida.

Here is another one:

http://cafsocal.businesscatalyst.com/caf-products/P-51-Mustang-Warbird-Ride

[skimmerhead]

Gbrown: Like you I've been a pretty frugal (friends say cheap!) guy all my life. Sometimes you just want something and are willing to pay the price. About a week ago I dropped $1500. for a half hour ride in a P-51 Mustang. My brother looked at me like I was crazy when I told him about it. I enjoyed every minute of it and glad I did it. I'm 69 and have finally realized it's only money, not much good till you use it for something you like.

i wish i could have been there with you!! i'd be out $3,000 bucks, 2 rides in a P-51! hell yes! you can't take it with you, i envy your ride.

don't take life to seriously! you'll never make it out alive!

skimmerhead:-D

[fecmech]

fecmech... where do I get in line for a Mustang ride!!!

Bosterr--This is the one I flew in:http://www.redtail.org/ride-the-mustang/
Their add says $2000 but for the Geneseo Air show the cost was $1500. This past weekend in Buffalo NY there was a B-17 ($400.) and a P-40 ($1150.)

[Longwood]

I got to fly a Xtra 3000 like they use for the Red Bull Pylon races last year.
My back and neck hurt for three days.
I plan on flying a P-51 this fall.

[nanuk]

two things I've learned about Ebay

1) shills and snipers abound, so set a limit, stay within it

2) some sellers will always charge more than retail for used goods, AND charge a Handling charge, the bigger the seller, the worse they are. Someone will eventually pay for it.

[sw282]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251109775575?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

l guess l made the buy of the year on this H&G #50. l was the only bidder. l saw them go as much as $177 the last couple weeks. We will see how it casts in the near future

[gbrown]

two things I've learned about Ebay

1) shills and snipers abound, so set a limit, stay within it

2) some sellers will always charge more than retail for used goods, AND charge a Handling charge, the bigger the seller, the worse they are. Someone will eventually pay for it.

+1 with that.

sw282--Ya did good. Great buy. Caught 'em napping.

[GLL]

I have never understood the complaints about snipers . If you bid up to the maximum you are willing to spend you either win or you l loose ! I just won a mold that two last minute snipers tried to win. The bid I had placed was more than their snipe and they lost. :)

Jerry

[Oreo]

I snipe and it is a very useful tactic on ebay. Bidding in advance only drives the final price up higher. I don't entirely understand why other then it must be something to do with human psychology.

[Silver Hand]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251109775575?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

l guess l made the buy of the year on this H&G #50. l was the only bidder. l saw them go as much as $177 the last couple weeks. We will see how it casts in the near future

If you get a chance to get the mould hot let us know the what size the boolits drop.

[Longwood]

I have never understood the complaints about snipers . If you bid up to the maximum you are willing to spend you either win or you l loose ! I just won a mold that two last minute snipers tried to win. The bid I had placed was more than their snipe and they lost. :)

Jerry

Yep!
It works perfectly every time.
Trying to out snipe a bid that has already been made is impossible.
I bid my max, then wait for a email.
Yawn!!:coffee:

[MtGun44]

I always snipe. Sorry if you don't like it.

Bill

[Longwood]

I always snipe. Sorry if you don't like it.

Bill

Go ahead,,,
It does not work.
If I put in a higher bid six days earlier I will beat you because my bid is already in ahead of yours.
If you bid higher than my high bid at the last second,,, Oh well,,, I was not, and am not willing to pay that much, so you are welcome to it.

[mrb7]

Go ahead,,,
It does not work.
If I put in a higher bid six days earlier I will beat you because my bid is already in ahead of yours.
If you bid higher than my high bid at the last second,,, Oh well,,, I was not, and am not willing to pay that much, so you are welcome to it.

If you put in a higher bid, then the snipe does not work. In that case your psychology of the purchase is that you are willing to buy the item, and whether it is a bargain or not is not part of the purchasing decision.

That's fair. And it's a legitimate strategy.

Like others, I also snipe, but the object of the snipe is to keep the price to a minimum so that the object is as much of a bargain as I can get.

Again, this is fair, and another legitimate strategy.

If there are no bidders like you in the action, then the strategy benefits the sniper willing to throw down the highest last second bid. If there are determined buyers who are not seeking a bargain, then the sniping is doomed.

The sniper is is only looking for the bargain. If you've removed the bargain, the sniper will not win because it isn't what he was interested in anyway.

Frankly I've bid both ways. I've bid MRO surplus parts at 100% of new list price occasionally just to make absolutely certain no one else won a part that I needed "right now" but getting new was going to take 8-10 weeks from an overseas supplier.

There are all kinds of strategies on fleaBay, and each has value in different ways.

MB

[paul h]

If you get a chance to get the mould hot let us know the what size the boolits drop.

The odd thing is the 050 is listed as both a .356" 38 super mold, and a .358" 38 sp mold. The 050's I got drop 0.356" on the button from ww's, but were easily lapped out to 0.358".

[Silver Hand]

How do you make them bigger? Beagle.
The mould you purchased if I am not mistaken was intended to drop .356 for some auto loaders Like the S & W Mod 52, which came to be in later years and 38 Gold Cup and Clark Conversions as stated by ''Hensley & Gibbs Numerical List of Bullet Designs by Wayne Gibbs, Summer 2005''
Lets not consider hi Jacking this post.
It is a mistake and I hope to be forgiven.

[Silver Hand]

I snipe and it is worth the price of admission. Most snips cost me a two bits and have saved a few saw bucks from time to time.

[grullaguy]

I have items on Ebay every week.
These items have a buy it now price which I call my convenience store price. If you want it right now, you pay for it. If you are willing to wait 7 days for the auction to end, you will probably get a deal.

I love it when a bidding war breaks out and the people go past my buy it now price. I always send the losing bidder a second chance offer and they often accept the offer.

The funny thing is that the second chance offer is sometimes more than the buy it now price.:bigsmyl2:

[41mag]

I usually shop around and know what I intend to pay before placing any bids. Even so, there are times when like most, I will find something that I have been looking for or is simply not made anymore and I will throw down what I consider a reasonable bid and let it ride.

This said, I have sniped a few items over the year in the last seconds mainly due to finding them in the last minutes of the auction and they are something I simply want really bad. As for the "Buy Now", depending on what the prices is, if it is something I have been searching for, or what the shipping is, I might go that route as well. Any way you slice it however, the reasoning behind the bids is usually because someone wants the item and is willing to buy it.

[largom]

EBay is just like any other auction, people can and do get carried away. I have always said that the value is "what someone is willing to pay". I was at an auction several months back and watched a box of 30-30 cartridges bring $44.00 and they were new not old collectible. I also see reloading stuff at these auctions bring double or more than retail. The more people/bidders the higher the prices. I have made some great buys at small country auctions though.

Larry

[gbrown]

Lets not consider hi Jacking this post.
It is a mistake and I hope to be forgiven.

Not sure what you meant, but we are just discussing things of mutual interest concerning boolits. Fair game. Bidding on molds and such is the same. As far as Ebay, as said before, I'm a capitalist and I believe in the free market system. Being beat in a bidding game is part of it. Sniping IMHO is part of it. I have been to live auctions numerous times. There was an auction house right across the alley from my grandparents up in Ponca City, OK. Loved to go there as a kid. Bid on stuff. Only problem I have with Ebay is the changes made to make it "fairer". Again, IMHO. Most of those came from people who cried "foul" when they got outbid. Tough luck.

[Elkins45]

About sniping: a bargain is only a bargain if you actually have some use for the item. Sniping just to get something cheap is a good way to become a hoarder---ask me how I know this!

I got a "good deal" on a two cavity Lyman round nose 38 mold. I don't remember how much I paid, but it was a "bargain". I have never cast a single bullet from that mold and who knows if I ever will. I mean, is there seriously any less useful bullet style than a round nosed revolver bullet?

What a "bargain" that mold has been. Shopping for "good deals" has filled my basement to the brim with **** I don't need and will never use.

[Silver Hand]

Thanks, gbrown I thought about lapping a mould once with valve grinding compound then toothpaste came to mind. I decided to cast leaving the slight bit of rust inside the cavity and watch what would happen. To my surprise it cleaned up well enough to shoot. I never had the chance to lap a mould, so I don't know what I missed.

[mrb7]

...Lets not consider hi Jacking this post...

I started reading this thread because I saw the title and thought it was addressed to me personally.

[Longwood]

I usually shop around and know what I intend to pay before placing any bids.



I buy close to 99% of everything pricy on ebay or other online source.
Savvy internet shoppers know that there are several programs available that show what like items are selling for.
I use them, then if using ebay, I make a fair maximum bid, then go do something productive.
I don't waste my time looking at the "By it now" items, unless I have to have it by tomorrow.
I know a lady that insists snipeing works, and she is using a satellite dish.:veryconfu DUH!

[Silver Hand]

I started reading this thread because I saw the title and thought it was addressed to me personally.

Just learning how things work. I will use the Quote more often. My thanks to gbrown were for the understanding of stretching the limits of the post with discussion that might have been taking it else ware.
paul h I would like to know how the mould was lapped particularly holding the Boolit and what compound was used. I mistook your post as a reply from S&W282.
I did screw up in my posting. Reading and missing who was posting properly.
Hope this clears things up.
Might be I was not following closely enough.
Ok I just read the title.
I might as well come out with it - I have dyslexia.
So bear with me.

[wv109323]

I am proud to live in a country where there is so much entertainment. It would be kinda boring if everything was straight up and straight forward. Look at it another way ,that we have the greatest freedom in the world to act the way we want. Have at it in an auction setting and let the highest bid win.
I can't figure out the whole "rare", "vintage", "hard to find", "last one", "only one I have ever seen" mindset. This is in a country that can produce anything where a profit can be made. I can't figure out why some one wants something that is old and problematic as opposed to some thing that is new.

[1hole]

Don't slam those who pay inflated prices on eBay, etc. I'ts GREAT when you want to sell something!

As a 5 year old, I climded up to the cockpit of a P-51 in late 1945 at Tyndall Field, Panama City, Fla. I still remember my awe at all the knobs, dials, stitches, levers and how little space there was for the driver. That event started my love for airplane model building, in stick and paper days of course, and led me into the AF following high school. Still love the Mustang, it and the F-104 are still the most beautiful things in the sky to me but I've never had a ride in either.

[paul h]

How do you make them bigger? Beagle.
The mould you purchased if I am not mistaken was intended to drop .356 for some auto loaders Like the S & W Mod 52, which came to be in later years and 38 Gold Cup and Clark Conversions as stated by ''Hensley & Gibbs Numerical List of Bullet Designs by Wayne Gibbs, Summer 2005''
Lets not consider hi Jacking this post.
It is a mistake and I hope to be forgiven.

The way I lapped my molds was to cast up some bullets. I took them and put them in the lathe and center drilled the bullet base, then drilled them with a #3 drill bit, which is the pilot hole size for a 1/4-28 tap, but since lead is so gummy, you don't want to use a #6. Then I tapped the hole 1/4-20. I cut the head off of a 1/4-20 socket head cap screw, and threaded the bullet on the screw. The bolt stub with bullet was chucked into the drill press. I put a dab of 180gr lapping compound on the bullet, closed the mold around the bullet and fired up the drill press. I held it there for about 20 seconds, then turned off the press. I cleaned the excess grinding compound off the mold faces then clamped the mold around the bullet. Then I put a c-clamp on the mold faces so I could get the mold firmly clamped around the bullet. I fired up the drill press again, tightened down the c-clamp and counted to 60 seconds. Repeat the procedure for each cavity with a new bullet as the lap.

Now the molds drop 0.3585" to .3590".

[Longwood]

Don't slam those who pay inflated prices on eBay, etc. I'ts GREAT when you want to sell something!



When sellers see people doing that,, they often flood the market, that is when the savvy buyers reap the rewards.[smilie=1:

[a.squibload]

...Shopping for "good deals" has filled my basement to the brim with **** I don't need and will never use.

Some time if you're looking for something to do, list some of that "stuff"
here on Swappin & Sellin! If you can bear to part with it...

[mrb7]

...Ok I just read the title.
I might as well come out with it - I have dyslexia.
So bear with me.

My comment was a self effacing joke. I'm known as the eBay king in my circle of friends. I've been burned once or twice, but overall I win on eBay.

[Longwood]

My comment was a self effacing joke. I'm known as the eBay king in my circle of friends. I've been burned once or twice, but overall I win on eBay.

So,,, it was you,,,
Please notice the last line of my signature.

[Ed in North Texas]

Also - some folks are overseas and cannot buy the molds at retail at all, and many dealers
will not ship overseas, while some eBay sellers will. Viewing everything through USA only
colored glasses misses out on some of the reality.

Bill

I once asked a person why he bid more than retail for a lightly used mould. He replied he was in the Netherlands and when the VAT was added to the new price, the used one (no VAT) was cheaper.

Ed

[mrb7]

So,,, it was you,,,
Please notice the last line of my signature.

I can't see the signature lines on my phone. I'll look when I can get to a computer.

[Silver Hand]

The way I lapped my molds was to cast up some bullets. I took them and put them in the lathe and center drilled the bullet base, then drilled them with a #3 drill bit, which is the pilot hole size for a 1/4-28 tap, but since lead is so gummy, you don't want to use a #6. Then I tapped the hole 1/4-20. I cut the head off of a 1/4-20 socket head cap screw, and threaded the bullet on the screw. The bolt stub with bullet was chucked into the drill press. I put a dab of 180gr lapping compound on the bullet, closed the mold around the bullet and fired up the drill press. I held it there for about 20 seconds, then turned off the press. I cleaned the excess grinding compound off the mold faces then clamped the mold around the bullet. Then I put a c-clamp on the mold faces so I could get the mold firmly clamped around the bullet. I fired up the drill press again, tightened down the c-clamp and counted to 60 seconds. Repeat the procedure for each cavity with a new bullet as the lap.

Now the molds drop 0.3585" to .3590".

paul h If I could center the lead I would manage the rest. the 1/4- 28 is common around my garage taps dies and bits I have. But no lathe in my shop for metal working. I do have a few friends that offer the use of theirs.
You have armed me with some very useful information.
On my drill press I have done some tricky work in stainless [Quick detach stuff for Harley bags] and built a brass bushing for the interior of a carburetor I lost, that worked. Centering a slug won't be perfect with my tools. But now I know how.
Thanks for your reply.

[Silver Hand]

paul h How well do those old style crimp less boolits shoot?

[Elkins45]

paul h If I could center the lead I would manage the rest. the 1/4- 28 is common around my garage taps dies and bits I have. But no lathe in my shop for metal working. I do have a few friends that offer the use of theirs.
You have armed me with some very useful information.
On my drill press I have done some tricky work in stainless [Quick detach stuff for Harley bags] and built a brass bushing for the interior of a carburetor I lost, that worked. Centering a slug won't be perfect with my tools. But now I know how.
Thanks for your reply.

You can use the sprue holes as a guide and they will get you plenty close enough.

I have lately gone to the method of pouring the last cast with the mold through a large brass nut with the sprue plate swung out of the way. It's much more secure to the bullet that the screw method and you don't have to worry about the screw pushing through and damaging the cavity. The ability to grab that nut with a socket and twirl it around really simplifies the lapping process.

[Silver Hand]

You can use the sprue holes as a guide and they will get you plenty close enough.

I have lately gone to the method of pouring the last cast with the mold through a large brass nut with the sprue plate swung out of the way. It's much more secure to the bullet that the screw method and you don't have to worry about the screw pushing through and damaging the cavity. The ability to grab that nut with a socket and twirl it around really simplifies the lapping process.

Elkins 45
Thank you, this sounds like something I can do and will do more than likely from what I have been reading about Lyman moulds recently . For some good reason and I don't know why I have been blessed with a dozen +- moulds that cast on the larger end of things. In fact I would like to take advantage of a four banger Ideal I have - PB about 245 grains swc drops all four over .432 measured several weeks after cast. I would like to find a .432 die, for a .44 wheel that likes .431 But still is not married.

I would have lapped a mould recently =two cavity, for Light cavity rust, but after three hundred or so hot pours and having the advantage of not seeing clearly. I am glad I did dot lap that mould. The bollits turned out real good after the first twenty or so dropped together.
Again This I can do Thanks
Silver Hand