9x18 Makarov

[Grapeshot]

Anyone else own/shoot these guns. I have a Bulgarian MAK in 9x18 and have been making my brass out of 9x19Nato and 9mmPara comercial brass. It was free and I have some time on my hands.

Any how, I find that this gun THROWS BRASS into the next county and have decided to stop shooting outdoors unless shooting the Russian Steel Cases. The reloadable brass I use at the local indoor range and at least I can find 49 out of 50 pieces of brass after shooting. I find that the factory ammo is not as accurate out of my gun as my reloads using 7 grains of AA#7 and Berry's 95 Grain TMJ RN's or Hornady's 95 gr JHP's.

In either case all rounds go into a 5 inch bull at 25 feet so I know that I can keep them all in center of mass body target if I have to.

I replaced the front sight with a green fiber optic style so I can pick it up in low light conditions. I only have had to replace the fiber optic tube once after a session at the range when the green tube disappeared during a rapid fire sequence. Not to worry, I just had a ghost ring style front sight until I could get home and replace the little green tube. Now I'm ready for zombies.

[RU shooter]

I have found that a heavier recoil spring helps with the violent ejection of the brass. I dont shoot mine alot but a few of my favorite loads are 2.8 - 3 grs of Bullseye and a cast 95-100 gr cast bullet. For the full power loads I use AA#5 with a Sierra 100 gr FP

[Trey45]

I'm with you on the steel case stuff. All I shoot in my Bulgarian Mak is the steel case fire and forget steel cased stuff. I call it fire and forget because I don't have to chase the brass.

Other then that, I mostly look at this gun as a novelty, for me I don't see it as a serious contender for my CCW rotation. I really like the gun don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have 9x19 instead of 9x18 as my minimum CCW caliber.

[bob208]

i got my wife a pa63 in 9x18. she shoots the steel case stuff also. keeps it loaded with hp factory we got at a gun show. i have thought of geting one for myself to carry. but then with the ramp up of volince i will just keep carring my hi power.

[John in WI]

I don't shoot a Makarov, but my 9x18 CZ-82 really stopped throwing the brass when I added a heavier Wolff recoil spring. So far, I also haven't lost the new extractor, spring, and pin. The recoil was sharp enough to wiggle that loose a few weeks ago--and I imagine it got winged out into the grass at the range. Never did find it!

[jrayborn]

I love my CZ-82 and my P-64, both pistols are an excellent value. My problem is that the all seem to like the Lee 365-95-1R boolit but all I have is a 2-banger mold and Lee does not seem to offer a 6-Cav. Takes me forever to cast enough to keep 4 of these things fed!

Anyone have a line on a similar mold with 4-6 cavities?

[Fishman]

I love my CZ-82 and my P-64, both pistols are an excellent value. My problem is that the all seem to like the Lee 365-95-1R boolit but all I have is a 2-banger mold and Lee does not seem to offer a 6-Cav. Takes me forever to cast enough to keep 4 of these things fed!

Anyone have a line on a similar mold with 4-6 cavities?

Ranchdog is coming out with a six cavity 100 grain design in the next couple of weeks I think. I'm on the email notify list :)

[John in WI]

I need to start reloading for mine. So far it's mainly Silver Bears for it. It's reliable enough, but certainly not what I would call "high performance" ammo. I have never seen one of the HP's expand in water or phone books. I guess the important thing is that it feeds great and always cycles (even with the heavier spring).

[Dutchman]

Isn't there a forum rule that you can't have a thread without photos of the specific firearm?

[smilie=s: There should be.

My East German Mak. I'm rather fond of it but have shot only East German iron core military ammo in it so far.

http://images23.fotki.com/v866/photos/2/28344/157842/mak2-vi.jpg

[jrayborn]

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy261/jrayborn32/IMG_33481.jpg



Here are mine, not Maks of course, but they feed the same!

[zaphod042]

I love my CZ-82, it's a sweet shooter and very accurate.

[jrayborn]

Ya, not to hi-jack the thread, but as a C&R holder the CZ-82 has to be the best handgun deal going. Inexpensive and very functional.

[zaphod042]

I don't shoot a Makarov, but my 9x18 CZ-82 really stopped throwing the brass when I added a heavier Wolff recoil spring. So far, I also haven't lost the new extractor, spring, and pin. The recoil was sharp enough to wiggle that loose a few weeks ago--and I imagine it got winged out into the grass at the range. Never did find it!
Which Wolff recoil spring did you get? The factory standard is 14.5 and the extra power is 16 and 18 pounds.

[zaphod042]

Ranchdog is coming out with a six cavity 100 grain design in the next couple of weeks I think. I'm on the email notify list :)
can you tell me how to get on the email notify list for this mold? My Lee 2 cav mold just takes too long.

[Fla9-40]

I have the CZ-82 as well and have the same problem slinging the brass into the next county. I also have a 7.62x25 that does this as well. I replaced the 7.62 spring, but did not help! I would like to know which spring would work well with the Mak as well as the 7.62?

[tgator]

The spring kit from Brownell's comes with a 16# and 18# spring. Try them both, then stick with the one you like. Both will allow you to keep brass near by.



Tim

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's mine. I have never loaded for it as I have a bunch of factory Norinco ammo. Don't shoot it that much, really at all. It is my chair gun. (In the Easy Chair)

However I do have a boat load of 9 mm brass I have saved specifically for this gun. Some day I will set up the lathe and run a thousand or so cases thru it for the Mak.

I was lucky enough to get an FAC aftermarket barrel and compensator for the gun before they went out of business. While apart I smoothed out everything inside. The barrel came with instructions on how to install it ( you must completely disassemble the gun in order to install the barrel which is the first thing that goes in the frame ) and the instruction sheet also showed all of the places to polish to make the gun smoother. The trigger is actually nice now, both in SA and DA.

The standard Russian made machine requires a significant amount of break in. Ural motorcycles quote a 20,000 mile break in period! I don't believe there is a word for deburring in the Russian Dialect.

I also want a CZ82. My friend has one and I think they are one of the most underrated guns there is. Most were not fired hardly at all as the Chech police were given like 9 rounds of ammo per year. For the price I don't see how you could afford not to have one.

Anyway here's a pic of mine. And yes the compensator does work and it makes a significant difference in the way the gun shoots. The Key Ring facilitates dropping the magazine.

Randy

[Fishman]

Zaphod, here is the link:
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_6_73&products_id=184

At the bottom of the page is the notify me link. Ranchdog specs his molds from Lee. I haven't heard a bad word about the man or his designs and am looking forward to my first mold from him.

[Wayne Smith]

Randy, when I got my 82 it was literally unfired. There was absolutely no mark on it indicating that it had been. Since I have started using it there are some marks showing that it has been fired, so I am reasonably convinced mine was not used at all prior to my getting it.

[Fishman]

Mihec just posted some inventory molds over in the vendor sponsor area if anyone is interested in a premium 4 cavity brass mold that has the hollow point option :)

See here:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=160053

I bought one of the 380/Makarov combo molds. I didn't think he'd made any for the recent group buy but I guess he did. Score!

[azrednek]

Ranchdog is coming out with a six cavity 100 grain design in the next couple of weeks I think. I'm on the email notify list :)

THX!! for the post. I just signed up for the waiting list. S far I've had good results with Lee's 2-banger but it is just to slow. I have a few that shoot the 9X18 Mak. When I drag them out I usually shoot up a minimum of 500 rds.

I've been marking my Mak brass with a black marking pen so I can more easily separate it from 9X19 and 380. A good portion of my Mak brass is trimmed from 9X19. I learned my lesson the hard way to separate the marked Mak brass BEFORE I put it in the tumbler. I polished off the markings I put on the headstamps and spent a few hours separating everything. My last trip with the Maks I deliberately left 380 and 9MM's at home. I still had to do some fishing out of the 9X18 that apparently came from adjacent or previous shooters.

Following suggestions here. I've been using 380 data with Bullseye and Unique. So far so good and I know if it ain't broke don't fix it but it seems to me I could load the 9X18 a bit hotter if i wanted to work up some SD loads. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Fishman]

Ranchdog also has reloading data for the Mak :)

[Fatdaddy]

I trim all the nickle 9mm cases down to 9x18 Mak.
It makes it very easy to keep seperate.

[Fishman]

Ranchdog now has the Mak mould in stock!

[W.R.Buchanan]

wayne: My friends gun which he got from J&G sales in Prescott AZ had holster wear on the outside but there was hardly any wear of any kind on the inside. No brass embedded in the breach face usually indicates no firing going on.

It doesn't make much sense why they gave up these guns. If they never fired them then what the hell do they need new ones for? I suppose they are not going to fire the new ones just as often as they didn't fire the old ones. Maybe we can buy them cheap in a few years!

Might as well just give them whistles, at least they could use them.

Randy

[jrayborn]

Well I got the Ranch Dog mold and it worked great. Now for sizing, has anyone ever sized a tumble lube boolit through a traditional sizing die (in this case a Star). I am going to start this evening and put the first coat of Alox on and try sizing through the Star without using the lube from the Star. We'll see...

[azrednek]

jrayborn just curious what size are you using? I have put tumbled lubed castings through my RCBS Lub A Matic and best I recall, without any problems. I do recall getting a feel for it and it was easy picking out some castings that were under sized. I have also used conventional wax type lubes on TL castings. I was using a heater with Jake's Red and it neatly filled the tiny grooves. It has been a few years, not sure but I believe it was a Lee TL 230gr truncated cone.

[Edub]

I'm new to the casting world. I figured I would give it a try with the Lee 2 Cav Mak mold. I own a CZ-82 and a P-64. I've loaded my fair share of 9X18. I just trim 9X19 down too. I've had good luck with Unique for my 9X18 loads.

I added the heaviest Wolff spring to my CZ-82 and it really tames the brass throwing. Instead of throwing it into the next county, it's only throwing it into the next city.

[jrayborn]

My Star die is .366 the Ranch Dog mold drops about .367. I have about 800 cast so far and the first coat of 45/45/10 is drying and I'll try pushing them through the Star tomorrow.

[jrayborn]

Also just in case anyone was curious, the Ranch Dog 6 cavity mold was flawless!

[azrednek]

Also just in case anyone was curious, the Ranch Dog 6 cavity mold was flawless!

THX!! for the tip. I'm a bit undecided because Miha also has a Mak mold in stock. I just got an email from Ranch Dog indicating the Mak mold is back in stock so I best make up my mind or I might find myself waiting weeks like I did for the Lee a few years ago.

Between myself and my shooting bud I cast for. Combined we have over 10 different 9MM Maks. My friend and I need to take the time slug and measure every bore to determine the best over all size. I've been down the road before of keeping the same boolit in different sizings separate. A royal king sized PITA. So far with the Mak I've done 363 and 365. Both sizes worked equally as well in both my CZ and Russian Mak. Since our collections have grown in size I really hope we can determine a single size that will shoot equally as well in all our 9MM Mak pistols.

[Gee_Wizz01]

Have you slugged your barrels? My Russian slugs .367 and is extremely accurate with the Lee RN. I do get some leading, but its easy to remove. I bought one of the 100 gr TC molds from the group buy about 2 years ago, and they drop .368. I just use LLA and don't bother to size, and they shoot great. If you haven't slugged, do it before ordering a sizer. MAKs are all over the place on bore size. My buddies East German runs .363 and I checked a Norinco that was .368. For brass, I bought some Starline, which is great, but my MAK puts brass in low earth orbit with the OEM spring, and with the heaviest wolf spring they travel at least 10 feet. Therefore I trim 9X18 brass for most of my shooting, and use worn brass or off brands that I am not worried about losing.

G

[jrayborn]

Ya, I started out buying Mak brass but was "enlightened" to just trim Luger brass down. I have found that with the four pistols I shoot. .366 works very well. I was interested in how the CZ82 with the polygonal rifling would do, and they both shoot cast perfectly. I have had no leading at all in any of my commie guns.

[azrednek]

Ya, I started out buying Mak brass but was "enlightened" to just trim Luger brass down. I have found that with the four pistols I shoot. .366 works very well. I was interested in how the CZ82 with the polygonal rifling would do, and they both shoot cast perfectly. I have had no leading at all in any of my commie guns.

I just lucked out and found a local ad selling a 9MM Mak trim die and extended shell holder for only $20.00. The seller and I lived apx 50 miles apart. He was a pretty decent guy and met me half way. He even gave me a baggie full of trimmed brass for no charge. With the trim die I have to lube brass the ol'fashion way. It might or might not be faster than using my old Foster brand hand trimmer but I find the trim die fast and convenient to set up.

I'd like to know whom or where the warning originated not to shoot lead in poly rifled barrels. I've put hundreds through my CZ. Lead is as, or more accurate than factory FMJ's and I have never noticed any leading in my CZ. Just speculation on my part. I assume there might be another pistol manufacture, possibly Glock that has warned against it. Until I have a problem with my home cast in either mine or my shooting bud's military/police surplus CZ's from J&G. I will continue shooting my home cast and loaded lead boolits.

I can't recall ever having a jam or problem of any sort with the surplus CZ's. With the initial investment of the pistol, mold reloading dies etc. I got the shooting iron pretty cheap. Scrounging and chasing brass into an adjacent zip code is my only gripe but I'm willing to deal with it. Fortunately the CZ tosses brass slightly forward. I have a little Polish pistol chambered 9MM Mak, I can't recall the model number. It tosses brass just as far as the CZ but it goes straight right. It has a tendency to PO shooters and I can understand why in adjacent shooting lanes.

[Edub]

I have a little Polish pistol chambered 9MM Mak, I can't recall the model number. It tosses brass just as far as the CZ but it goes straight right. It has a tendency to PO shooters and I can understand why in adjacent shooting lanes.

The P-64 I'm assuming. Yeah, if you're not behind a divider, it will spray the folks to your right pretty good.:p

[azrednek]

The P-64 I'm assuming. Yeah, if you're not behind a divider, it will spray the folks to your right pretty good.:p

I just Googled up a picture and yes it is a P-64. Sure wish I had scarfed up a bunch when J&G, a one hour drive from my home, were selling the P-64's for only 149.95, 2 or more for $10.00 less. Being local I have to pay sales tax but I beat the shipping. If I visit J&G during the week the sales clerk will usually pull 2 or 3 of their surplus items and let the buyer cherry pick the best one. On weekends their showroom is like a jam packed zoo and they simply don't have the time.

I only bought two and have already horse traded one of them away. If you have one I highly recommend the spring kit and get rid of that ridicules double action trigger pull. For the 10 bux or so for two springs. The first time you pull the trigger double action you will discover it was money well spent.

When I shoot my P-64 in an indoor range. I have to keep it forward far enough to avoid the brass raining on other shooters. Any brass that falls forward of the divider can not be recovered. I'd rather shoot the $12.00 per box steel cased ammo than give away my re-loadable brass. At the outdoor range they have a movable screen barrier I can use but it is not always available. Shooters with the oddball calibers in AR's are usually either using or begging for one of the screens.

[Edub]

I ordered the springs before I ordered the P-64 lol. I shoot on private land so luckily, picking up brass is not a problem.

[azrednek]

I ordered the springs before I ordered the P-64 lol. I shoot on private land so luckily, picking up brass is not a problem.

Smart move J&G had the spring kits on back order for almost 60 days before mine finally arrived. I prefer to shoot my 9X18's in the desert where it is legal to shoot. We spread out a large plastic tarp, 12X14 I believe. When we are done everybody grabs a corner and lift the brass into the center. One of my shooting buds that operates a dry wall business has a construction sized nail magnet we use to sweep up and separate the steel cases.

[prangr51]

I had a Polish P-64 that chucked brass 4 lanes over, swapped out the main spring for one a tad heavier, now it only chucks them 1 lane

[Wayne Smith]

wayne: My friends gun which he got from J&G sales in Prescott AZ had holster wear on the outside but there was hardly any wear of any kind on the inside. No brass embedded in the breach face usually indicates no firing going on.

It doesn't make much sense why they gave up these guns. If they never fired them then what the hell do they need new ones for? I suppose they are not going to fire the new ones just as often as they didn't fire the old ones. Maybe we can buy them cheap in a few years!

Might as well just give them whistles, at least they could use them.

Randy

Randy, I have no idea how many of these were made. I assumed that mine was an unissued armory gun that was obsoleted before it was issued. I figured I was lucky. I have no idea how many were in similar condition.

How many of the police guns turned in in the US are well worn? Most are almost unused inside but show holster wear.

[Edub]

Both my CZ-82 and P-64 appear to be almost new internally with a slight bit of holster wear. I bet the re-qualifications for army and police aren't nearly as stringent as they are in the US.

[azrednek]

Both my CZ-82 and P-64 appear to be almost new internally with a slight bit of holster wear. I bet the re-qualifications for army and police aren't nearly as stringent as they are in the US.


I've bought numerous European military and police surplus handguns from J&G. J&G is slightly more than a one hour drive from my home in Phx. I have the advantage over long distance buyers as I get to look before I buy. I can pretty well sum it up by saying nearly all the European surplus pistols and even the French S&W revolvers all appear to have a good deal of holster wear, handling marks, an occasional minor ding but nearly all with very few exceptions appear to have not been shot very much. The Pols and Czechs especially seemed to have kept their pistols meticulously clean.

[Machodoc]

The Ranch Dog 9x18 6-cavity mould is SWEET!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Edub: They are allowed 9 rounds for practice every year. I don't think they actually have to qualify for anything.

Randy

[Edub]

Edub: They are allowed 9 rounds for practice every year. I don't think they actually have to qualify for anything.

Randy

Haha well, that explains why all of their guns are almost brand new.