Colt New Frontier

[Love Life]

I have always been interested in this model in 45 colt. I just read an article in the current handloader that Colt is bringing this model back. Unfortunately the article was not very flattering.

Does anybody have a Colt New Frontier and if so how do you like it?

WOuld I be better off just picking up a Ruger blackhawk?

Primary purpose would be woods bumming, and I know the Ruger would be better for that, but I have always wanted a Colt. So what do you all say? Are they worth it or am I just paying an exorbitant amount for a name and a legacy?

[Love Life]

Follow on question. If I were to look for a copy cat version which company would you go with, and can these designs handle the RCBS 45-270-SAA at 1,000 FPS?

[Dframe]

I can't answer your question regarding your handload. THe Colt New Frontier is a very fine colt handgun. It just doesn't appeal to many who prefer the graceful lines of the single action army. While I've never owned a centerfire new frontier I did own a ruger blackhawk convertable. My opinion is that the convertable idea is not nearly as useful as it would appear. After shooting my ruger for about a year and a half it occurred to me I hadn't used the 45 acp cylinder at all. there just wasn't any reason, since it wouldn't do anything the 45 colt couldn't. If you Like the new frontier by all means buy one. Those I've looked at were beautifully fitted and finished and there is just "something" about a real colt.

[Love Life]

Amen to that Dframe. It being a "real" Colt is what draws me like a moth to a candle. I would not be looking to hot rod it so I reckoned between 800-1000 FPS with a 270 gr boolit would be OK, but you never know.

The justification would be a woods bumming gun, but Lord knows I have enough of those...

[rockrat]

I have a NF, but mine is in 44spl. 3rd. gen. Has a .428" bore and .432" throats. I have a lyman 429421 4 cav that casts at .433", so thats what I shoot in the gun now.

Started with .430" boolits and they just scattered everywhere, so measured throats. Groups shrunk quite a bit with the right size boolits.

[GBertolet]

I had one in 45 Colt with a 7.5" barrel. Purchased it new years ago. I eventually got rid of it out of disgust, as I thought for the money it was a ***. First the inside of the barrel had a big gouge in it. I returned it to the factory and Colt replaced the barrel. Secondly the bore size of the replacement barrel was .450, and the cylinder throats were .456, and would shoot grapefruit size groups at best, from a rest at 25 yards. In stock form, the hammer spring was so heavy, the gun would lurch forward when the trigger was pulled. The blueing was very nice though. I hope the new offerings are better. For what they cost they should be perfect out of the box. If you get one, don't be satisfied with any less.

[Love Life]

That is what I was afraid to hear about the New Frontier. I have read in too many places about large and inconsistant chambers along with tight barrels.

If you read the handloader article you can really read between the lines and see that the writer wasn't that impressed with the new version.

Nothing like spending a bunch of cash for something that needs fixes from the box. Maybe I will direct my eye towards USFA. Back to google I go...

[David LaPell]

I can't speak for the New Frontier but a friend of mine who has owned many Colts over the years has even told me that they are a bit over rated and if you want a gun that will shoot and you never have to fret over, you get a Ruger. Now that Ruger has a Flat top .44 Special I think that is the closest thing to the Colt for alot less of the money. All of the Rugers I have owned over the years shot better than I could have ever held, regardless of the vintage although I prefer three screw guns. I wish I could afford a .44 Special Flat top right now because it is on my very short list of guns to get. I have only ever owned one Colt big bore and that is my New Service and I can tell you that the gun shoots pretty decent for it's age and the cylinder throats and barrel are not too far apart. I guess I got lucky.

[smkummer]

I currently have 2 Colt NF revolvers. A 5 1/2 45 that was originally a 7 1/2 barrel. I also have a Ned Buntline commemorative 12 45 nickel. They both shoot fine. The 7 1/2 barrel was a fine shooter but at the time, I really like the compact feel of the 5 1/2. But if I were to have one single action, it would be the 7 1/2. If your fine with 900 FPS with that bullet as I am, then the Colt will work fine. If you desire more performance, then look for a 44 special that can easily hit 1100 FPS in the Colt SAA platform. I am shooting the 454190 Lyman sized to .454 and all my 3rd Colt SAA (4 of them) shoot it wonderfully. It used to be that one could find a New Frontier for less than a SAA but it appears that is no longer the case.

[shotman]

well The 2 I had. and repeat had. I had to drift rear sight 1/8in to get it to hit close. I traded it and few years later got another it shot 3in high at 25 yds. worked ok at 75yds . Neither was a target gun.
see if you can find OLDER Ruger blackhawk before 1980

[EDK]

Unfortunately, it appears more COLTS are purchased for investment purposes than for actually being shot on a regular basis. COLT'S labor troubles and other problems have been discussed for years; it seems AR15 are their major product and handguns are an after-thought. Just my uneducated observation.

I don't recall what the price is on the NEW FRONTIER, but it's considerably more than the RUGER equivalent....which is what most would suggest. Myself, I'd get the RUGER; have a trigger job done; replace the rear sight with a BOWEN Target model rear sight; steel ejector rod housing; install a HUNTER or DRAGOON grip frame; and get a NICE set of custom grips fitted. You could also drop a bunch of yankee dollars in it and have the frame and hammer color casehardened by TURNBULL and a super blue job on the rest of the gun if you desire some cosmetic touches like the NEW FRONTIER. (I got a SMOKIN' DEAL on a used 44 VAQUERO alleged to belong to a TURNBULL employee and it's beautfiul!)

I HAD a 7.5 inch 44 Special New Frontier back in '95. Never shot it...new old stock gun and RUGER would never have let it out the door. Terrible cylinder fit...end thrust that was visible to the naked eye; let alone feeler gauges! Gave it to my brother the Colt fancier, who was going to make a tight chambered 45 Colt out of it; he said he traded it off to John Taffin. BUT it sure was pretty.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[gmsharps]

I have 3 of the 3rd generation new frontiers. a 4 3/4in and a 7.5 in 45colt and a 7.5 44spl. I have read the stories about bad fitting and bad shooting frontiers. I guess I lucked out on mine. They shoot pretty well. I really like Colts to start with and also have a consecutive serial #'d pair of SAA also that I really like. Those were my dream guns and have not been dissapointed but I also have a couple of rugers that if I need a tough heavy duty gun then the Ruger is the gun for that it seems you just can't break them. Not that I have tried though. The Ruger's price is hard to beat but if you need that Colt fix the frontier might just do it..

[Love Life]

I very well may have found my cake, and will be able to eat it to. I was perusing and came across U.S. Firearms. Now one of those may very well scratch the itch. Maybe get one of the ones with a little engraving. Hmmmm. I'll have the purtiest woods bumming gun this side of Nevada! Maybe get me one of those cowboy rigs that have a belt and holster. Just put the belt on and go.

[DaveCampbell]

I did a review of the Colt NF in .44 Special for American Hunter a few months ago. The gun shot fairly well but not as well as my 70s-vintage SAA in the same caliber. OTH I have a 4 5/8- and a 5 1/2-inch Ruger Flat Top in .44 Special, and I picked up a 4 5/8-inch one in .45 Colt this year. No complaints except that they all need a trigger job.

A couple of years ago I ordered a matched pair of SAAs in .44-40 W.C.F. for CAS. They get shot at least monthly and always with real black powder. Again, have no complaints regarding accuracy or reliability. The reputation that Colt SAAs are fragile--the"gunsmith's friend"--came from the 1950s when everybody wanted to be a TV cowboy and fanned their revolvers. If you fan a stock Ruger much, you'll likely break the hand as well.

Bottom line is this (IMHO): If you like a Colt, get one. Treat it well, and it will serve you well--likely beyond your lifetime.

[pmer]

I read the article too and was going to say something. The NF in the article had a .4515 barrel and .456'' throats. Some groups were 4 plus inches. What a shame, I hope they're not all like that. If I was Colt I'd send him another revolver with better demensions for a follow up blurb in a latter issue.

I have a 5.5'' 3rd gen SAA in .357. I never bothered to slug it because it shoots .358 sized boolits good. Groups them to the left but it's a nice predictable shooter.

[Love Life]

The risk was too much for me to plop down the cash for a Colt. I went with a US Firearms instead. Should have her in a couple months.

I read between the lines on that article and when that writer writes an article like that I'll listen. Take into account that maybe 25% of the colt horror stories read on the net are true that is still a significant amount of garbage produced for the money they want.

I just kept having flashbacks of my S&W PC revolver that was also garbage...

Time to start looking for a RCBS 45-270-SAA mould. anybody got one they want to turn loose?

[West Creek]

You did good Love
I have a 3rd gen with new cylinder from Jim Stroh and a USFA both on 45 colt. Got the new cylinder due to 456 throats. The the usfa is my goto gun. Shot 1-1/4" groups off the bench at 25 yrds and I hit clay pigeons at 40 yrds offhand regularly. Thousands of rounds through it and never a hickup.

USFA - They just plain work like they are supposed to.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I’ve been shooting Colt SAA’s for decades and love them. I can attest they are absolutely strong as long as you don’t file down the parts or use aftermarket springs. Went out yesterday with my Ruger Blackhawk .45 4 ¾” and compared it to the Colt’s side by side. Hate to admit it but the short barreled Ruger just about outshot my short barreled Colt’s. Plus I was just using wheelweight boolit alloy in the .45’s which the Ruger digested and I was using Linotype in the .44 Special which the Colt’s were digesting in .44 Special.

I’ve got 4 short barreled Colt’s, two .44 Specials and two .45’s. The groups from the Ruger were about the same size as the groups from the 7 ½” Colt’s, one is a .44 Special the other is a .45. I don’t care, I still shoot my Colt’s more by far than the Ruger. All my Colt’s are 3rd generation.
For the comparison between the .45’s I used the following load. Lyman 454190 sized .454” wheelweight alloy lubed with Lyman Alox over 8.7 gr of Unique, Starline brass CCI 300 primer.
.44 Special load was the RCBS 44-250-K pure Linotype sized .431” Lyman Alox over 11 gr of Blue Dot Starline brass CCI 300. I am just shooting off these pure Lintotype boolits and am switching to 4 parts Linotype 6 parts wheelweight. Shooting position was seated, knees drawn up, handgun resting between the knees Keith style.

7 ½” Colt .44 Special at 50 yards 4 ¼” group.
7 ½” Colt .45 at 50 yards 4 ¼” group.
4 ¾” Ruger Blackhawk .45 at 50 yards 5” group.
1981 4 ¾” Colt .44 Special at 50 yards 12” group.
2009 4 ¾” Colt .44 Special at 50 yards 9” group.

Notes from a previous day at the range testing different loads in the Colt SAA .45 using 454190 at 50 yards;
1995 4 ¾” Colt .45 heat treated wheelweights 454190 .454” 15 gr of 2400 at 50 yards 4” group
1995 4 ¾” Colt .45 heat treated wheelweights 454190 .454” 6.3 gr of Bullseye at 50 yards 4” group
1985 4 ¾” Colt .45 heat treated wheelweights 454190 .454” 15 gr of 2400 at 50 yards 11” group
1985 4 ¾” Colt .45 heat treated wheelweights 454190 .454” 6.3 gr of Bullseye at 50 yards 9” group
The heat treated boolits hit at a much lower point of impact on the target therefore I have not used them, sight adjustments on fixed sighted Colt’s are rather permanent and I shoot a high volume of rounds so I’ve decided to not add the heat treating step to my boolits. Plus I have several .45’s and don’t want to mess with different boolits in different guns. I don’t really use the Colt’s much for 50 yard shooting.

A dealer friend gave me a US Firearms .45 4 ¾” to take home. I had been considering purchasing the US Firearms in a .45. The price was right but after an evening of fondling it I decided it just didn’t fit me, the action was nice and tight and the fit and finish were excellent but it ultimately felt foreign in my hand after so many years of shooting Colt’s. I really liked the wider front sight.

The gun funny writers talk about cylinder throat diameters. My 2009 .44 Special 4 ¾” has .430” cylinder throats, .430” groove and .417” bore diameters. My 1981 Colt .44 Special 4 ¾” has .427” bore and .434” cylinder throats. The accuracy difference between the two is only marginal. I’ve purchased a new Colt cylinder in .38 and have an appointment to have it bored out to a nice tight .44 Special dimension. I’ll post the results.

The 1985 Colt .45 4 ¾” .45 has cylinder throats .456” bore .4489” groove .453” 1 in 16” twist.
The 1995 Colt .45 4 ¾” .45 has cylinder throats .456” bore .449” groove .453” 1 in 16” twist.
Ruger .45 Blackhawk 4 ¾” 1990 cylinder throats .450” bore .447” groove .453”

Still my .44 Special 7 ½” has grouped 4” and 100 yards with 100% Linotype RCBS 44-250-K with 11 gr of Blue Dot. But when I intend to reach out to 100 to 150 yards and beyond I defer to my Ruger SBH 3 screw 7 ½”. I just never carry that gun casually.

Let know how your US Firearms does, I’d like to know how it holds up and if you experience typical base pin backing out issues. I recently purchased a Colt .45 7 ½” black powder frame 3rd generation new in box. I made a base pin retaining screw just a little bit longer than the Colt’s screw, the base pin in that gun stays put.

[Wayne Smith]

I read that article too. What gets me is that he all but comes out and says that these dimensions are a deliberate and purposeful policy, not unintended.

[Love Life]

Silver Jack Hammer-I will let you know how the base pin does. Now I need to go find some leather. Looks like a trip to the Whyte Leatherworks website is in order. And just like that I am off to the races...

[Bardo]

Mihec has a RCBS 45 270 saa clone in stock. I had one and it cast great. But I sold it because I perfered his 454-640, he has that in stock as well. Both are great molds

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1790365#post1790365

Bardo