First casting session, recuring problem

[ddg]

Hello all. After slowly acquiring a bunch of gear and the a Shiloh rifle anticipated soon, I finally got around to casting some bullets for it. They are from a Brooks mold. 3 out of 4 bullets came out like this. I tried heating up the alloy as varying my rotation speed with the ladle/mold. Is there an easy fix as to what I'm doing wrong? Thanks you is advance.

[ku4hx]

Good info here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=122748

[popper]

Looks like what I call a fish eye, by the base. Small circular crater. I get them different places in the same session so I don't think it is a dirty mould. Thought at first is was hard water splash when I WD or microscopic drop of sprue lub. Don't know what causes em.

[Plinkster]

I get them too but assumed they were from a cool mold since mine seem to disappear once things are warmed up. It'd be far from the first time I've been wrong though lol.

[captaint]

First, welcome to the site, ddg. Question - how many boolits did you pour that came out like this ? I mean, like 10 or 50 ?? Mine will look like that before the mold gets fully up to temp, OR a little oil in the mold. Nice lookin boolit though. enjoy Mike

[45-70 Chevroner]

THe mold is not hot enough. Dip corner of mold in melt for about 45 seconds and the melt should be around 800 degrees. Cast faster. After it starts to drop nice filled out boolits back off the heat a little to around 700 degrees. It works for me. I shoot a Remington Rolling Block with a 500 gr Lee boolit and have that problem until things get up to temp. If they get to frosted I just back the heat off some more.

[montana_charlie]

I tried heating up the alloy [and] varying my rotation speed with the ladle/mold.
Your alloy temperature looks about right. Does it take about five seconds for the sprue to solidify after you finish forming the pour?

Is that fisheye on the lower side, or the upper side of the mould as you mate the dipper to the sprue plate? I'm not sure that 'where' it forms is instructive, but I like to know it if it moves around. If it IS always in one spot, I certainly WILL clean that spot again ... no matter what.

I get a few of those fisheyes when I cast, too. If my pot temperature is proper, I will vary my casting cadence until they disappear. Cycle faster to run the mould hotter, and slower for cooler. I usually drop a bullet about once every forty seconds.

Once the fisheye disappears, I pay close attention to the base fillout. If the base corner feels 'smooth' I will resort to 'pressure pouring' to make it fill fully. If that produces sharp corners and no fisheyes, I will vent the blocks under the sprue plate before the next casting session.

If nothing you do can make them go away, make sure you aren't pouring any oxides through the dipper.

CM

[rintinglen]

I get them too but assumed they were from a cool mold since mine seem to disappear once things are warmed up. It'd be far from the first time I've been wrong though lol.

We have a winner! The heat is not quite enough to prevent the lead from freezing before fully filling out the mold. You end up with little air pockets that result in the small voids that you are seeing. On some molds, absent or clogged vent lines can prevent the air from escaping, resulting in similar voids along the seam of the bullet mold, usually in the lube grooves.

Preheat the mold, either by setting atop the lead pot or (better) using a hot plate cast a lttle faster, and your troubles will quickly disappear.

Beware though, as soon as you shoot a good group, your desire to do better will result in the purchase of more and more molds and casting stuff.

[paul h]

The lead is solidifying before it completely fills the cavity, this is caused by a cold mold.

The biggest mistake new casters make is not getting their mold hot enough. The options are pre-heat your mold, or keep casting until you get good bullets. You do need to cast fast enough to get heat into the mold and it's not nearly as efficient as pre-heating the mold.

You can dip the bottom of the mold in the pot of lead. If the lead freezes up into a fairly thick layer, you have a cold mold. When the mold is hot enough, the lead won't freeze on the mold.

Keep at it, you'll being casting great bullets before you know it.

[ddg]

THANKS. Lots of ideas to try. The mold was preheated on a hot plate and this problem persisted throughout my casting session of around 80 bullets, I kept 25. I couldn't pin down what made some work but most not. As it is a large cast iron mold I probably wasn't casting quick enough to keep it up to temperature. I'll also make sure to give it a better scrubbing next time. The fish eyes were all in the same spot. I'm right handed and they were on the right hand side (started on the bottom). I just finished casting a bunch of 45 colt rounds (2 bullet mold) and they all turned out great. Great seeing a pile of shiny boolits!

[plainsman456]

When i first started casting i had no bad boolits but they were for 38 and 357.
The first time i tried a large boolit mold for the 45-70,nothing i did for the first few pours would make any difference.
After thinking about it for a while i started to heat the mold up more and they went away.
The same thing for a 58 and 50 caliber muzzle loader mold.
Just needs some more heat.

[Wally]

THANKS. Lots of ideas to try. The mold was preheated on a hot plate and this problem persisted throughout my casting session of around 80 bullets, I kept 25. I couldn't pin down what made some work but most not. As it is a large cast iron mold I probably wasn't casting quick enough to keep it up to temperature. I'll also make sure to give it a better scrubbing next time. The fish eyes were all in the same spot. I'm right handed and they were on the right hand side (started on the bottom). I just finished casting a bunch of 45 colt rounds (2 bullet mold) and they all turned out great. Great seeing a pile of shiny boolits!

While you preheated the mold, the top of the blocks were not up to temperature. Next time preheat, as you did, then fill the mold and continue to "pre-heat" that should prevent the "fish-eye".

[geargnasher]

I get them too but assumed they were from a cool mold since mine seem to disappear once things are warmed up. It'd be far from the first time I've been wrong though lol.

Based on the pic and the info given by the OP I believe you're right.

Gear

[Wayne Smith]

THANKS. Lots of ideas to try. The mold was preheated on a hot plate and this problem persisted throughout my casting session of around 80 bullets, I kept 25. I couldn't pin down what made some work but most not. As it is a large cast iron mold I probably wasn't casting quick enough to keep it up to temperature. I'll also make sure to give it a better scrubbing next time. The fish eyes were all in the same spot. I'm right handed and they were on the right hand side (started on the bottom). I just finished casting a bunch of 45 colt rounds (2 bullet mold) and they all turned out great. Great seeing a pile of shiny boolits!

Most likely a heat issue. However, if it persists, look at both a touch of oil persisting at that point, especially if on one cavity of a multi cavity mold, and look at a block of the vent at that point, typically a small speck of lead blocking a vent.

[paul h]

I've never seen oil on a mold cause fish eyes, porosity in the bullet yes, but fisheyes or wrinkles are a classic symptom of a cold mold.

If the mold is too hot then when you poor into the mold the sprue doesn't solidify but runs out paper thin on top of the sprue plate. Your sprue should stay shiny for several seconds after it hardens, and on such a big bullet you should see the sprue sink as the bullet draws lead into itself upon hardening.

[Walter Laich]

not to beat a dead horse but I get these also as the mold is coming up to temp. Mine usually end up a bit frosty (on the verge of being too hot) but no fish-eyes

w

[geargnasher]

Oil will do it, but not for more than a few casts. If you treat your mould alignment pins with Bullplate or similar in the middle of a casting session, the mineral spirits that "gas off" from the hot metal will make wrinkles up and down both sides of the boolit the parting line for a while, maybe half-dozen casts. The hydrocarbon vapor intrudes through the vent lines.

Gear

[Rusty Shackleford]

frosty boolits seem to be the sharpest and cleanest.

[MBuechle]

I had base fillout issues with my brass 9mm 4 cav. I'd been preheating on hot plate. After reading a post here, I set mold sprue plate down on the plate between casts, problem solved.

[DrCaveman]

+1 on gear's last post.

I basically ALWAYS get patterns like those shown by the OPs pictures after lubing my mould, no matter how well I thought I cleaned the cavities of oil. Some always creeps in. I know, I should probably use less oil or control it better, but I am sure that I'm not the only one who make this mistake.

Not sure what fish-eyes are, but this looks like oil contamination.

Then, to agree with basically everyone here, heat the mould up more. Preheating is a good start, but you should still crank the heat to the max on your pot and pour a bunch very quickly. Pour til they are frosty, bet the wrinkle will be gone. Back the heat down, and dump in the rejects.

Start pouring again and they'll be better.

[MikeS]

Now the question is: Is the boolit shown in the picture a cull, or will it shoot ok (as a plinker)?

[Plinkster]

Hmmm, never thought to test it before but I might need to now. My guess would be that as long as it doesn't compromise the boolit base or change the weight drastically most shooters will be hard pressed to tell the difference. May have to keep from tossin a few back in the pot and find out.

[44man]

It is HEAT! I ladle cast and have experimented with that defect. I can move the defect around the boolit by pouring from a different direction.
The lead is setting up before fill out.

[EDK]

Steve Brooks makes some d*** nice moulds. I finally got to meet him and Miss Gayle at the Quigley shoot this year. Nice folks...like 'most everyone in the black powder shooting fraternity. Steve and Cheryl Garbe were there also.

You have to run the alloy and mould for those big boolits HOT. (I'm using a 620 grain+ BROOKS mould for my 50/90 SHILOH SHARPS. It's a lot different from 357 or 44 pistol boolits.) The heavier the boolit is, the hotter you need to run it.

FWIW, casting match grade boolits and reloading them in black powder rifles is a whole different game from loading smokeless with cast or jacketed. IF you don't have them already, get copies of Mike Venturino's SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST; Randolph Wright's LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCHED BULLETS, A BEGINNER'S GUIDE; the classic from SPG, BP CARTRIDGE RELOADING PRIMER; and Paul Matthew's library on the subject from WOLFE PUBLISHING. All good reading and a lot of information...all of them have their fans and critics. Obviously, start hanging out at shilohrifle.com/forums. A lot of reading BUT it will save you a lot of time and wasted reloading components.

I don't shoot the BIG 50 SHILOH as much as my VAQUEROS, but it's my favorite. Just taking it out of the case, looking it over, and dry-firing it is one of life's small pleasures. The good folks at SHILOH make an excellent rifle and treat you like family.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[popper]

Not sure what fish-eyes are, but this looks like oil contamination. More than likely in my case. Fisheye is a painter term when you get a spot of impurity in the paint. makes a nasty little circle. Mine are like a circular moat, bump in the middle. I run my alum moulds about 450F, preheated, alloy ~725 F.

[ddg]

I want to thank everyone again for the good advice. I had another go at it today. I cast around 40 bullets rather quickly without looking at them when they fell and took a break. That bunch still weren't great. I came to conclusion that I was letting the bullet sit in the mold too long. Once I cut that time back to only a couple seconds...success! :)