Underhammers

[Ajax]

I was wondering how many have them and your opinions of them? I have a blue grouse action with a Hopkins& Allen barrel in 45. It is much more accurate than i am. It will be in the woods this year for muzzle loader season. Also i called Bruce yesterday, he own blue grouse muzzle loading and he is still making and selling actions if anyone is interested.


Andy

[Tatume]

I have a Blue Grouse action that I bought several years ago. The fellow who owned the company said he stands behind them 100%. Mine came with a defective hammer & trigger. I called, and he said, "take it up with the foundry." Since I don't even know what foundry he buys from, he was less than helpful. The gun never got built, and I still have the parts.

[Ajax]

WOW thats not the customer servce i have recieved from Bruce. I had a defective hammer and he sent me another right out. no questions asked.


Andy

[rhbrink]

I bought one from him several years ago and the hammer and trigger were very soft, I almost lost the end of my thumb before I discovered that!. I could never get a reply for him so I filed everything back in working order and hardened the parts my self. Deer Creek makes the same action or lock as they call it with the proper hardened parts. If I were to buy another I would go with them or Fire and Iron.

Richard

[Ajax]

I thought Bruce's parts came from deer creek.

Andy

[bob208]

i have 4 h&a rifles. i used some blue grouse trigger and hammers for replacements with no problems. the one has a heavy douglass barrel on it i used that one for off hand matches for 8 years won alot of matches with it. one is just like it left the factory it is called the offhand. it has the peep sight on it yet. the last one i got was aparts gun the wood was missing just got the barrel and action with a layman pepe sight. had to pay a wopping $45 for that one.

[Boz330]

I have a Deer Creek and the first hammer broke but they sent me out a new one, no questions asked. It is a .50 cal RB gun and is as accurate as I can shoot. Simple design, no wondering turns to the powder charge.
Mine didn't really start shooting till I got to a 100gr of 3F. The only problem is you need a long sleeve shirt to protect your arm from blast from the cap/nipple.

Bob

[John Taylor]

I get my parts from Deer Creek ( 765-525-6181 ). Very prompt service and they now take plastic. Hammers and triggers are as cast and very hard. I make three sizes of frames out of steel or brass but it is more of a hobby as I am backed up with other work.

[Hanshi]

Interest seems to be growing around these practical and simple guns. My only one is a H&A Heritage model from about 1966 in .45 caliber. It has killed deer, bobcats and squirrel. In fact it has see so much use over the past half century that the combo tg/hammer & trigger spring died. I did receive a replacement from a generous forum member so the old gun is back up and running. I've never owned a more accurate percussion.

I've posted this before but here it is again.
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0387-2.jpg

[pietro]

My H&A's a .36 cal, and I'm lovin' it

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9503/dscn0798u.jpg

I've taken the issue wooden forend off, and installed a rear RR thimble/holder made from a brass cartridge case, since I prefer the stripped-down look.

.

[Hanshi]

You have a very nice one there, pietro. Although mine has in no way undergone abuse it has been used a lot but cared for. The forend on mine split lengthwise a few years ago and I did a tacky job of gluing it back together. At that same time a 4" piece of wood came off one side and was lost. I fashioned a replacement and fitted/glued it on. This glue job was much better but the wood wasn't walnut and is very noticeable. Unbelievably, While shooting in that area days later I actually found the original piece that broke off- what are the odds - and it was still in good shape. I'm afraid to try and remove the replacement piece for fear of doing more damage. I've thought of doing as you have and removing the forend permanently. while the bluing on the barrel is unblemished, that's not the case for the portion covered by the wood. That area will have to be re-blued to look right. The butt stock is unblemished but could use a refinishing.

By the way, do you know of a source for that type forend? I may even try making it a full length forestock.

[Ajax]

she does look sexy.


Andy

[John Taylor]

I took in an original under hammer several years ago that need some tender loving care. The strange thing about it is the forearm, it's metal. A piece of thin sheet metal was formed over the ram rod and flared out to fit the bottom side flat of the octagon barrel and soldered in place. Butt stock tangs were forge welded to the breach plug. Stock has a pore boy grease hole and seems a little slim for the 45 cal barrel. Very nice looking piece of wood but there are several small pieces missing, also no hammer or trigger. Rifling looks very good except for the last inch.

You can still get forearms from http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=8953

[Ajax]

That is different i have never seen one like that. I would love to see pics of it.


Andy

[Coffeecup]

I've currently got one (an H&A .45 cut down for teaching kids), with a couple of actions for future use. I like the principles behind the use of the action, direct line from the nipple to the powder. I just don't care for the cap flash scorching my arm! I've been playing with increaseing the depth of the hole in the hammer to better cover the cap when fired.

If you have to have a caplock rifle, they are a fun way to go.

[John Taylor]

Most of the burned arm come from using a nipple that has to big a hole. Problem is the original H&A uses a nipple with an odd size thread. Even a side lock with a worn out nipple can set the hammer back to half cock.

[Coffeecup]

Most of the burned arm come from using a nipple that has to big a hole. Problem is the original H&A uses a nipple with an odd size thread. Even a side lock with a worn out nipple can set the hammer back to half cock.

Under any normal circumstances, with any used caplock, I agree--the nipple is the first thing to check.

This one though was shortened from the breech, and set up to use 1/4-28 nipples. The current nipple is stainless, has less than 100 rounds through it, and will just pass a .028" wire when clean. The hammer seems to be the major culprit. I almost suspect it was a replacement, the hammer recess was originally less than 1/8" deep. As mentioned, I've been (gradually) deepening the hole to try to contain split caps.

[frnkeore]

This is my baby. I built it in 1983. I bought the action and butt stock from Numrich. The rest is my doing. It has a full floated tapered H&H 32", 50 cal barrel. I have to use a inline capper to reach the nipple but, there is no side flash. It has won many BR and trail walks but, I haven't shot ML'rs since about 1996. The trigger is just over one pound but, you have to keep the sear notch clean and oiled. Lots of work stoning and polishing on it.

Frankhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_8852500f4caf69a53.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6037)

[Boz330]

That is some nice wood on that thing. You did a great job.

Bob

[frnkeore]

Thank you, I was lucky to find a forearm piece that matched pretty well.

Frank

[pietro]

Nice sandals, too, Frank. [smilie=w:

.

[frnkeore]

Hey,
Thoughs are my shootin' sandals. When i shoot I wear socks with holes and they usually get a point or two extra combined with the wind flags ;)

Frank

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I was introduced to muzzle loading in 1959 by a neighbor and the Numrich copy of the H&A rifles were all I could afford to buy. I shot it in matches for many years and never had one problem with either gun. I have no recollection of them burning my arm either. I only wore long sleeves in the winter and we had matches all year long. I used the .45 cal for 100 yard shooting and the 76 cal for fifty yards. As a club we had so many members that we could buy wholesale and the guns were cheap even for that time. I had a friend mill the side of the barrel and install Redfield peep sights. It was the #85 and we got them for 5 bucks because they were govt surplus. Both guns were accurate and I regret selling them.

[John Taylor]

I was introduced to muzzle loading in 1959 by a neighbor and the Numrich copy of the H&A rifles were all I could afford to buy. .

Numrich bought the H&A name and introduced an under hammer under that name in 1955, H&A never made an under hammer. The under hammer design can be dated to 1750 with the first ones being flint lock. In the 1830s and 40s there were several people making under hammers, probably more pistols than rifles.

[frnkeore]

Not wanting to let this Underhammer thread die, here is my Underhammer Slug Gun. Originally built many years ago (40 or more) by a North Westerner named Milo Taylor. I rebreeched it (the larger octagon part) and rebarreled it to 38 cal. It's a closed igintion system that uses small pistol primers.

Sorry, I forgot to picture the shootin' sandles :(

Frank

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_8852501838e669a6e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6101)

[Coffeecup]

If it wouldn't be hijacking the thread, I've got an underhammer action on which I've trying to puzzle out the breeching system. Neat action, but I don't understand how it was intended to be set up--thought I had it once, but when I sketched it out I saw my ideas wouldn't work.

[tacklebury]

I've been wanting to try my hand at making an underhammer also. Thinking this winter will be the year. For those of you who might be interested, Mr. Renner (owner of Pacific Rifle) has a nice blog associated to Underhammer guns. ;)

http://underhammers.blogspot.com/

[stuffy25thia]

Here's a picture of my under-hammer heavy bench gun.

[frnkeore]

That is very nice slug gun, Stuffy. I don't think that there is any place left on the West Coast to shoot them anymore. Do you still have matches in your area?

Frank

[waksupi]

Nice bench rifle.

[Ajax]

Snuffy that looks like a ton of fun.


Andy

[stuffy25thia]

That is very nice slug gun, Stuffy. I don't think that there is any place left on the West Coast to shoot them anymore. Do you still have matches in your area?

Frank

She has a roundball barrel on her. I don't shoot it much, takes a lot of work being so heavy, weights in at 28 lb.

[pietro]

WOW ! - Where's the undercarriage ? ;)

:bigsmyl2:

[Hanshi]

Beautiful rifle; it still needs to be exercised occasionally.

Actually, for decades I never had any problem with a burned forearm from firing my H&A underhammer as long as I stayed within reasonable loads (60 - 65 grns). I started having problems about the time the tg/hammer/guard spring began to die. The weakened spring started allowing the hammer to blow back. I haven't fired it yet with the replacement spring but am optimistic the problem is solved.

[bpd303]

I have two underhammer pistols. One is a 40 cal made by Charlie Caywood the next to last one he made (retired now). The other one is a 45 cal made by P. Bondini (replica Italy) in 1983. Both are very accurate and fun to shoot.

[John Taylor]

Hammer for my next build.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/UHdogshead.jpg
Flintlock under hammer.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/flintlockunderhammer.jpg

[rhbrink]

I wonder how long that it took for someone to work out the mechanics of that lock?

[Boz330]

Talk about a burnt arm. I know the flintlocks must work but it sure seems like it wouldn't.

Bob

[Tatume]

Talk about a burnt arm. I know the flintlocks must work but it sure seems like it wouldn't.

It all happens so fast the priming powder doesn't have time to fall out of the pan. Also, the flash hole is usually in the center of the pan instead of to the side, so the fire channel is more direct.

[John Taylor]

Looks like it would give a good burn but it happens very fast and as long as your arm is not lined up with the flash hole you should be safe.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGHFQxQZxeg