Re-sizing the 577-450 Martini Cases?

[grullaguy]

Hello all,

I am loading up some Martini rounds today. The bullets are paper patched to .464" which is a perfect fit in the new brass. I am loading them to the British specifications from the 1870s using a 480 grain pp bullet, cards, lube cookie and carded wool for filler over 85 grains of bp.

As the brass will fire form to the chamber dimensions, I intend to adjust the paper patch if required so as not to have to re-size the brass.

I would guess that others here have done similar things with the Martini, so the question today is..

Have I missed something and does the brass need to be neck sized?:bigsmyl2:

[skeettx]

My dies, made in England were made for the .466 diameter cast bullet

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/MVC-006S22.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/466-475-GC.jpg

I had mine cut for no gas check :)

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/MVC-007S23.JPG

Mike

[zuke]

I'd anneal them before the first firing,to make'em last as long as possible.

[Ed in North Texas]

Which M-H are you shooting? While there are individual variations, generally the Marks I through III have a tighter bore and are about a .462 to .466, while the Mark IV is often .470 to .472 (and some have been known to shoot the Lee 400 grain .476 GG boolit in the Mark IV to good effect). The British Militaria website M-H group just had a group buy of a .470 GG boolit for the Mark IV.

Ed

[grullaguy]

Which M-H are you shooting? While there are individual variations, generally the Marks I through III have a tighter bore and are about a .462 to .466, while the Mark IV is often .470 to .472 (and some have been known to shoot the Lee 400 grain .476 GG boolit in the Mark IV to good effect). The British Militaria website M-H group just had a group buy of a .470 GG boolit for the Mark IV.

Ed

A Canadian Military Mk II and a Webley sporting rifle which measures .463":Fire:

[herbert buckland]

The Martini has a taperd troat.When fire formed the case will take a .470 + PP bullet no problem,I have used these with good results.The last comercial Knock 577-450 cartridges had a .473 PP bullet ,though these were smokless loads

[Buckshot]

...............I have a MkIV and it needs a .472" slug, or that OD over the patch:

http://www.fototime.com/0FDEA25C2215222/standard.jpg

My favorite plinker load is the Lee .457 - 405 - F patched 'As cast"with 20lb bond, which yields a perfect .472". Loaded over 38.0 grs of IMR 3031 it delivers 1250 fps and will fetch the 200 meter ram without a problem :-)

The earlier Marks are supposed to take a smaller slug, and I've had people order .466" to .468" Lee type push through dies from me before.

http://www.fototime.com/9DC03C642E41F6B/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/8C8714312BCD32C/standard.jpg

I also have a 577-450 Sporter. The barrel is of ratchet type rifling, vs the Henry type. It also likes the .472" OD, but being civilian it could easily be a contemporary with the later MkIV military rifles.

http://www.fototime.com/36D423A1D578B61/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/4F9CDBB65CFF918/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9109FBD2EB448DC/standard.jpg

LEFT: Loaded with the .470" Coyote 505 gr slug (a Group buy from a couple years back) CENTER: On the left the 505 gr .470" Coyote, and right is a Lee 45 cal 500gr slug. The .470" Coyote is much more fully engraved. RIGHT: A photo taken of the civilian sporter's barrel.

It's quite a bit of fun to fool around with these, and finally get it right. I actually loaded 20 rounds for my MkIV with BP and the 450gr Lee cast of pure lead and PP'd to .468". I had 110grs of Goex 2Fg in the case under the wads and other flotsam and jetsom :-) After 4 rounds the whole left side of the rifle was covered with slobber! I was finally able to get a couole other idiots (I mean friends) to fire off the balance of the 20 rounds I'd loaded. When you can clap your shoulder blades together you know you're REALLY having fun!

.............Buckshot

[grullaguy]

I was hoping you would jump in on this Buckshot.
I enjoyed reading your previous Martini posts.

I am currently patching the Lee 450 grain bullet which is dropping at .460". I am using 16# paper, but it is good to know that I will probably be able to make a simple adjustment after fire forming by jumping up to 20# paper.

Cheers

[dromia]

I use the same standard load in my Mk1V and it shoots very well.

I use a paper patched bullet 100% cotton rag 9lb onion skin on a Barry Darr mould he made for me.

I usually put a soft lube cookie 'tween the beeswax wads to help keep the fouling soft, powder of choice is Swiss No5.

I do cheat a little as I've replaced the rear sight with one from a Ross Mk111, it fits in perfectly to the base, has an aperture sight and windage as well as elevation screws,

The 5 round target below was shot at 100 yards and the one out of the group to the right was called.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Targets/targetMH.jpg

[dromia]

BTW I neck size after initial fire forming. Then Fl resize as needed.

[skeettx]

Please show and tell more about the Mk111 sight
Where can I get one??
Thanks
Mike

[dromia]

I bought a few from Numrich a few years ago but haven't seen them there the last time I looked.

A query on the Ross Rifle forum may yield some help.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Ross%20Rifle/RossSightsJPG1-1.jpg

[skeettx]

How does the rear sight mount on the 577-450 barrel?

[dromia]

Thats the beauty of it, remove the original sight ladder and the Ross sight just drops in no fitting necessary.

[skeettx]

OK so leave the sight base and only install the ladder, is this it??

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=531470&catid=4652

[dromia]

Thats the one.

[Ed in North Texas]

Thank you Dromia and Skeettx. Numrich notes low stock on these, so anyone interested might not want to wait too long.

Ed

[dromia]

I've got a handful on the way to me as we speak, thought I'd better stock up whilst I had the chance. :D

Thanks for the heads up skeettx. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Smilies%20FB/sSig_goodjob.gif