WC820 and WC844

[dale2242]

Has anyone had experience with WC820 in 30 Carbine, 357Mag and 44 Mag?
How about WC844 in the 223?.....dale

[Junior1942]

Has anyone had experience with WC820 in 30 Carbine, 357Mag and 44 Mag?
How about WC844 in the 223?.....daleHere's my results with WC820: http://www.castbullet.com/reload/wc820.htm

I've stopped using it in 44 mag due to squib rounds. Otherwise, it's a useful powder, especially for 357 mag.

[felix]

Standard fare. They go together like a "horse and carriage" as per the 1955 Sinatra recording. ... felix

[bradh]

WC844 in 223, I load 26 grains behind a 55 grain j-bullet....I believe WC844 is the standard
powder for 5.56MM AR ammo.

[newcastter]

Yes WC844 is great in .223

[MT Gianni]

Junior, I also had a squib load with it in 44 Mag. IIRC it was around 18.5 gr with a Keith bullet.429421. I will not use it in a 44 special, nor any other special or low pressure round.

[Lloyd Smale]

You guys trying to load low pressure with it would cure most of your troubles by going with a cci 350 primer. Like any ball powder its a bit harder to light off, especially at lower pressures. Either load it to the upper end of the loading data for it or use a hot primer to light it off.

[Junior1942]

You guys trying to load low pressure with it would cure most of your troubles by going with a cci 350 primer. Like any ball powder its a bit harder to light off, especially at lower pressures. Either load it to the upper end of the loading data for it or use a hot primer to light it off.That's 100% true, Lloyd. But after a couple of squib loads puts a little scare in a fellow, he tells himself, Self, it's time to switch powders for 44 mag.

[bobthenailer]

Ive used alot of 820 in the 30/20 , 357 & 44 mag & 454 Casull as well as some in the 22 hornet & 38 super with excellent results

[Lloyd Smale]

junior used properly its probably the best big bore pistol powder ive found. Id use it even if i had to pay the same as i do for 110. Bottom line is its not a bit more apt to give you squibs then 110/296 is. Its just that theres alot of warnings about downloading those powders and most listen. Way to much internet bs about 820 out there telling you its ok to download it. 110 is no differnt. It can be downloaded a bit but it is MANDATORY to use a good hot primer like a 350 cci to makes sure it lights off at lower pressure.
That's 100% true, Lloyd. But after a couple of squib loads puts a little scare in a fellow, he tells himself, Self, it's time to switch powders for 44 mag.

[frank505]

Lloyd is correct, 820 is a wonderful powder in 38 Heavy Duty on up. It must not be down loaded as it simply will not work. There are other powders for light loads. 820 can be loaded to standard deviations in the single digits, in any sixgun cartridge, it just takes work.

[RobS]

WC820 is some good powder. Now-a-days if you can find it for a reasonable price is the trick. It's just as expensive as other commercial powders and lot to lot can vary a great deal. Simply put, I don't see the point any more.

Lloyd Smale, with you liking WC820 so much if you haven't tried Enforcer/Accurate Arms 4100 you should, it lights off easier and is a touch slower than #9. It would be similar to a slower lot of WC820 but not the slowest lots which were similar to H110. Very versatile ball powder.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive used alot of ramshot powder but not there pistol powders. Ive sure had good luck with there rifle powders though. I still have 5 kegs of 820 left before I have to go to 4100 or aa9 so it will be a year or two.

[BD]

I use WC820 in all of my .44 mag loads, lit with WLPs. I did have some issues lighting it with CC!350s in really cold weather, (below 0 F). Keep in mind that there are at least four lots of WC820 that have been on the market in the last 10 - 15 years, and they very in relative speed from Blue Dot to H110. Also keep in mind that the progression as you increase boolit weight does not track the canister grade "equivalent speed" powder very closely. As an example, my lot runs grain for grain equal velocity with H110 using 200 to 240 grain boolits, but when you get up to 265 grainers it's a full grain faster, and using the 310 grainers it tracks AA#9.
BD

[RobS]

Ive used alot of ramshot powder but not there pistol powders. Ive sure had good luck with there rifle powders though. I still have 5 kegs of 820 left before I have to go to 4100 or aa9 so it will be a year or two.

5 Kegs would keep me going for a bit longer than you it seems. :Fire::bigsmyl2::Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

Rob i went to there site to get some of the surplus herco and see theyre listing 820 again. Ordered two more jugs to fill a 6 jug order so ill be set a bit longer. I probably average about two kegs a year. Wish i was a bit fatter in the wallet right now as i need some 844 and 846 too

[Cherokee]

844 is great in 223, 820 great in 30 Carbine. Haven't used it elsewhere yet.

[OldManMontgomery]

In the time honored tradition: All charges shown were maximum loads in the gun I tested and may not be prudent in your firearm. For that matter, they might not be all that prudent in mine, but nothing blew up. Use your head; start lower.

I have a keg of WC820.

First trial was to duplicate .30 Carbine standard ammunition for a Carbine. Resulting load was exactly the same charge weight and velocity as the loading book I reference listed for 2400. The load shoots and groups about like a Carbine shoots.

In .44 Magnum, I find it shoots a bit faster than 2400. However, I did get a lead 240 SWC up to 1200 or so without difficulty in extraction or any other warnings in a 6.5 inch S&W M29. Highest load I tested was 19.1 grains of 820 under 240 LSWC at average 1247 f/s; cases slid out of chamber of a Ruger Super Blackhawk.

In the 'how about that?' file, my lot of WC820 - charge of 9.6 grains - will push a 158 grain lead bullet from a Super .38 at just over 1100 f/s. I haven't tried any more than that; but it worked the action and didn't seem abusive in either recoil or case analysis. Accuracy is adequate.

My .357 Magnum results are skimpy. The first load I tried was 11.5 grains 820 with a 158 LSWC out of a 4" S&W M28. I was expecting 1025 and got 1233. No damaged cases or gun, but I didn't fire the heavier loaded cartridges. Recoil was about what one would expect from a full house .357 Magnum from a four inch revolver. I was only testing velocity, so I have no idea of accuracy.

Again; these listed loads are full charge loads by my lights. Work up to them.

No experience with the WC 844.

[new cal shooter]

357 Mag load data:
WC820 (new) powder, 125 grain JHP, Fed SP Mag primer 17.2 gr = 1405 fps @ 1.570" 6" S&W

WC820 new 158 gr bear creek SWC 12.5gr 1165 fps spm 6" S&W

[Big Boomer]

My favorite .357 load with W820 is a 150 gr. RCBS SWC over 13.5 gr. W820, S&B SPP in older, never used Midway cases that I trimmed for length before using. Results are very small groups at 25 yds. with a nickel plated 5" S&W M27. Don't have a chronograph but revolver has a solid but not overmuch recoil. No leading. I use 20.8 gr. of W820 behind a 330 gr. LBT WLN gas check boolit with Hornady gas checks & CCI Mag. Pr. in my .45 Colts (Ruger & Dan Wesson). That load is a thumper and very accurate. Big Boomer

[TCLouis]

I have NEVER owned a Mag pistol primer until I got some of the "newer" #9 speed WC820.
I have never had squib loads in 44 or 357 Mag until then either.
Mag primers solve squib issues i both so now I have to stock mag primers.

Funny thing is that I use regular pistol primers to light it off in some rifle loads (using BOOLITS of course) I use it in.

My very old lot of WC820 will light off with WLP or WSP primers just fine. It produces great loads in the 44 Mag and 45-70 and I have a very limited supply so it is not used for plinking kinda shooting.

Except for some rifle loads, I have not found any use for the AA#9 speed WC820 . . . YET!!

Too many other projects going now to worry about it.

[Shiloh]

Has anyone had experience with WC820 in 30 Carbine, 357Mag and 44 Mag?
How about WC844 in the 223?.....dale

Lots of bothe WC 844 and WC 846 from various .223 but with jacketed bullets only.
Both those powders used to be surplus and cheap.

Last WC 844 I saw was more $$ than commercial H335. Surplus powders were wonderful. They and the cheap price they wee sold for are history.

SHiloh

[mdi]

The jug of WC820 (I believe it's -N) I bought had a label stating to drop H110/W296 data by 10%. So far I've loaded a whole bunch of .44 Magnums with this data and have used both CCI large pistol magnum primers and large pistol standard primers. Loads work great with Ranch Dog's 265 gr. RNFP bullets in my 20" Puma...

Also tried the WC820 in some cast bullet loads for my .223 Remington single shot. I got the info/data from "Jim" back in Oct. 2012...

[Ricochet]

Way, way back, I think before 2000, perhaps in the early 2000s I bought a jug of WC820 when it was said to use the same loading data as H110. I was using it in .44 Magnum which I had been loading for years with 296 following Winchester's advice to not download it, the starting and max loads being the same. I immediately found that loading my WC820 the same as 296 was too hot. Reducing the loads into the AA #9 range gave similar MV, and I was the first I was aware of to caution that AA #9 data was safer to use with it. I still have and use some of that batch and I think it's actually just a bit slower than AA#9 but still load it as if it was. It's great stuff in .44 Magnum and .38 Super. I don't have WC844, but acquired some WCR845 that gives results just like H335. The thing about all surplus powders is that they're more variable than canister powders, sometimes VERY variable. Don't use them unless you have a chronograph to compare your velocities with published loads of similar canister powders and are familiar with signs of excessive pressure.

[Ricochet]

BTW, on the subject of not downloading 296 or H110, I sometimes see warnings about SEE or detonation. I don't know that that is impossible, but it's not the reason for Winchester's recommendation. George Frost wrote "Ammunition Making," and in the book he tells how when he worked for Winchester they loaded .44 Magnum with 295P powder. They got complaints of squibs in extreme cold. (.44 Magnums were of course popular for bear protection.) The powder was changed to 296 which was said to be a little faster burning though the name would suggest a tad slower. That fixed the squibs, but they recommended not downloading it.

[Lloyd Smale]

that is because in fact it is aa9. Accurate arms started there business buying surplus powders and repackaging them and 820 was one of them. When the supply of 820 started drying up they had it made to the same specs. Any differences you see are basically small differences in lots. Be careful though as there was some faster burning 820 around that was ordered by the government but came at the wrong burning rate and was sold. I used to here there was a slow batch that did run like 110 but ive been buying this stuff from the time it hit the market and never saw any. Contrary to what some people claim this powder needs a mag primer just as much if not more then 110 needs them. Especially if you use starting level loads and aa9 data. It will go bang but you will see velocity swings as big as 200 fps. Ive pretty much standardized on cci 350s with it because over the years they consistently given me the best accuracy with it. Ive probably burned at least a 100lbs of this stuff and still have a pretty good stash. Its hands down my favorite mag pistol powder.
Way, way back, I think before 2000, perhaps in the early 2000s I bought a jug of WC820 when it was said to use the same loading data as H110. I was using it in .44 Magnum which I had been loading for years with 296 following Winchester's advice to not download it, the starting and max loads being the same. I immediately found that loading my WC820 the same as 296 was too hot. Reducing the loads into the AA #9 range gave similar MV, and I was the first I was aware of to caution that AA #9 data was safer to use with it. I still have and use some of that batch and I think it's actually just a bit slower than AA#9 but still load it as if it was. It's great stuff in .44 Magnum and .38 Super. I don't have WC844, but acquired some WCR845 that gives results just like H335. The thing about all surplus powders is that they're more variable than canister powders, sometimes VERY variable. Don't use them unless you have a chronograph to compare your velocities with published loads of similar canister powders and are familiar with signs of excessive pressure.

[fecmech]

I had some 820 that I bought maybe 12-14 yrs ago that tracked 296 exactly in my .357. Great magnum pistol powder!

[TCLouis]

I have some of the faster lot of WC820 that Lloyd Smale is talking about . . . In fact I have some of all three lot speeds.

I really LOVE the old H110 speed that I have the least of, followed by the AA#9 speed (in Rifle loads) and some of the fastest HS7 speed that now that I am running "low" have found a couple of cartridges/loads for.
I have been really remiss shooting here at the house and failed to keep good records so have found and lost loads because of my failure to keep meticulous records.

Luckily I have kept some pieces of targets with group and load data, but far from complete i.e. deer season came up and I lost all information
for the CVA Hunter in 7-08.
It is not like deer season sneaks up on us!