Had an iteresting day at the range

[Buckshot]

.............My neighbor had expressed a bit of interest in muzzle loading, and said that he'd like to go with us to the range. I have three 58 cal military rifles, and two 45 cal long range match rifles. The match rifles are kind of fussy and since it was to be his inagural introduction to ML, I figured the 58's would be the way to go. As it turned out the morning we were to leave he had a job interview and had to bow out.

Rather then re-pack the stuff (I was really wanting to shoot the Rigby 45 cal, I ended up taking the P58 Enfield, leaving the Zoli Zouave (doesn't EVERYONE have one? :D) at home. Amongst the assortment of 58 cal slugs I had some 500gr NEI target slugs, and figured I would work mainly with those. I also had 2 pounds of NEW Goex 2Fg I'd gotten in a trade a couple years ago, and had never used it before.

Rather then drag this out into a big long story, I'll leave my five 5 shot groups of varying charges with the Lee 505gr Minie out. I've never gotten really good groups with them in the Enfield before. They're a bit of a loose fit. However regardless of the charge (60-80grs) 5 rounds WOULD all group about 4" at 50 yards. Not steller, but quick to cast and they might have done better in the Zouave?

After those I settled down to do some work with the 500gr NEI's.

http://www.fototime.com/D0AD049E86D45FC/standard.jpg


I started with 60.0grs, and went up 5grs for each group. This is what 75.0grs of the new Goex 2FG netted at 50 yards off the bench. I figure 5 into 1 or 1-1/8".

http://www.fototime.com/2F3AB89A064CE52/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/A203AE713612238/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/60C6E7069044CD1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/96EFF680D8DB6F7/standard.jpg

The rifle is a Parker Hale 1858 Naval Pattern rifle with proggresive depth 5 groove barrel of 48" twist. It has been exceeding accurate with the Lee target Minie' over 45grs of Elephant 3Fg. I have tried this NEI slug with Elephant 2fg, but it has never done this well before. The bullet is supposed to be for 200 yard work, but I ran out of time to do much more with it.

I did try it @ 80.0grs with a lubed felt wad under the NEI slug, but the group, while being round certainly wasn't as tight. Since it is a solid base I thought the lubed felt wad might help as the charge weights increased, but we'd run out of range time before I could do any more. Besides the lubed felt wads I'd also brought some lubed .060" and .125" card wads to try. My plan was to try it all 3 ways, no wad, felt wad, and then a card wad all up to 90.0grs.

I will have to say I was VERY impressesd with this Goex powder. While this was new to me (my last Goex being the solid red can) I realize it has been out on the market for some time. I was mightily impressesd over the Goex I'd used before. This newer stuff seemed hotter, and the barrel fouling seemed to be MUCH reduced over what I'd used before.

...............Buckshot

[smokeywolf]

That is truly impressive Buckshot, and an absolutely beautiful musket.

I acquired some Swiss a couple of months ago. I'm anxious to try it with my Springfield cap and ball.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_17391500676728b6a3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5941)

smokeywolf

[Fly]

After reading your post, I see where you use 2ffg powder.I'm very green yet
to long range shooting.I have been using 3fffg powder in my Gibb's.Maybe
I need to use 2ffg instead.

Fly

[Mk42gunner]

Nice group, I wonder how that boolit would do out of a Musketoon?

Robert

[kullas]

nice looking groups there

[Boerrancher]

That is some nice shooting there. I have had good luck with the Goex powders made in the last few years. I know back in the late 70's through the mid 80's it wasn't nearly as good as many other powders on the market.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Hanshi]

After reading your post, I see where you use 2ffg powder.I'm very green yet
to long range shooting.I have been using 3fffg powder in my Gibb's.Maybe
I need to use 2ffg instead.

Fly





If I may be so bold as to interject; many guns (not all, though) will sometimes prefer 2F over 3F or vice versa. The only way to know for sure is to try both in each gun and see. I use 3F exclusively with only rare usage of 2F in specific loads. Part of the reason is that I'm not a good enough shot to find a difference of 1/2" + or - on targets 50 yards or farther. I know a number of shooters who get their best accuracy in .58 and .62 calibers with 3F. However this is with mostly with prb and not minies.

[Boz330]

After reading your post, I see where you use 2ffg powder.I'm very green yet
to long range shooting.I have been using 3fffg powder in my Gibb's.Maybe
I need to use 2ffg instead.

Fly

I was talking to the Coach from the long range ML team from last year and he told me he wouldn't use 3F in his Gibbs because of a couple that he knew of that had rung barrels. He attributed it to the 3F powder. Not sure of the validity of his hypothesis but almost every one of the guys I know are using 1.5 or 2F for long range.

Bob

[Beagle333]

That's some good shootin' and a really purdy rifle there!!!! :mrgreen:


(I use 3F in my .56 for 50 yd shooting)

[405]

Buckshot,

Extremely fine shooting!

What is the twist in that P58? I know some newer models have 48" twist while most of the originals had 70-78" twist.

Oops! got it. 48" twist. When I originally posted the question my super slow modem had bogged down part of the way through your post.

Also, too bad your friend wasn't along- if that wouldn't set the hook for muzzle loaders or BP, nothing would.

[Fly]

I was talking to the Coach from the long range ML team from last year and he told me he wouldn't use 3F in his Gibbs because of a couple that he knew of that had rung barrels. He attributed it to the 3F powder. Not sure of the validity of his hypothesis but almost every one of the guys I know are using 1.5 or 2F for long range.

Bob

Thanks Bob I know there is alot more pressure on these gun's with the
fast twist & heavy bullet they fire.I just got to thinking about that & it
makes sence.
Fly[smilie=f:

[451 Pete]

Buckshot,

That is some great shooting with that rifle. I am pleasantly suprised that you have had good luck using the newer Goex powder. In the past Goex has given me fits as to its consistancy and the amount of fouling left in the bore. It will be interesting to see if the new powder will hold up at the longer yardages. As we just received a new shipment of powder at Friendship I will pick up a can next month and give it a try.

Thanks ..... Pete

[Fly]

Pete your like me I think.Once you shoot black you never go back.I don't think
I would stay in this hobby if I could not shoot real BP.Don't get me wrong, I'm
not knocking anyone, thats just me.

I guess back in the day when I shot my first BP rifle & smelled it & saw that smoke
bellow out I was hooked ever since.I have a bunch of WW11 rifles I love shooting
also.But there just not the same.Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Fly

[DIRT Farmer]

Pete, I shot the last half of the week with the new shipment of powder, but in a trade gun. If I could get coal dust to light I could use it in a trade gun.

I need to play with the 32 and it will tell the story on powder as far as fouling. That barrel is fussy.

Alan

[Buckshot]

................3Fg would be kind of hot in a fast twist 45 with a 500+ grain slug. Those long range small bores are pretty much muzzle loading 45-90's and (from what I've heard) they're using Swiss 2Fg, or Swiss 1-1/2 Fg or comparable. I have a couple pounds of Goex Express, which is supposed to be their answer to the superb Swiss 1-1/2 Fg granulation. It's very true that before Elephant showed up Goex was the only powder. If you wanted to shoot BP you were stuck with Goex and what Goex wanted to make. Elephant was very receptive to the shooters and worked very hard to try and accomodate what the consumer wanted.

In 2000 I bought 25 lbs of ELephant 2 & 3Fg powder and found it to be much better then the available Goex.

http://www.fototime.com/00FF74F32FE64E1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/C75E453AEFB1E35/standard.jpg

I shot this with the Enfield using Swiss. These 2 five shot groups were done at 50 yards using the modified Lyman 575611 @ 624 grains. Please forgive the Pyrodex try :-). I was GIVEN a pound of the stuff. Check out the charge weight and velocity differences! The right photo shows the modified Lyman Minie'.

http://www.fototime.com/6BF0D8313CD43F3/standard.jpg

Another group fired 6-7 years ago. This was with the unmodified heavy skirted Lyman.

As I mentioned in my original post, I was REALLY impressed by this new Goex powder. I'd given up on it back in the late 90's and was using nothing but Elephant or Swiss BP. I'd fired a total of a bit over 50 rounds all totaled and NEVER had a hang, or delayed ignition. Long about 30 rounds or so I put the breechface scraper on the rod, and netted not a thing, nada. Clean!

http://www.fototime.com/1112BDF28C4207A/standard.jpg

Burrito Match with muzzleloaders, 48-1X. Shot some years back. P58 Enfield. 40grs Elephant 3Fg, Lee Target Minie. 50 yards offhand. The cretins I'd been shooting with had already banned the Whitworth and the Rigby :-) At 50 yards that was like killing pissants wth a sledgehammer.

I hope that after this showing in the next couple range trips I may again be able to try the Enfield with the NEI, the heavy skirted Lyman 575611, and the Raphine 580gr Pritchit at 100, and if time allows 200 yards.

..............Buckshot

[Boerrancher]

Pete, I shot the last half of the week with the new shipment of powder, but in a trade gun. If I could get coal dust to light I could use it in a trade gun.

I need to play with the 32 and it will tell the story on powder as far as fouling. That barrel is fussy.

Alan

Not trying to Hijack this cool thread, but the only powder that doesn't foul up my 32 is the new Goex. I have tried several others with the exception of Swiss and they are not as clean in the 32 as Goex.

[troy_mclure]

I may have missed it, but you don't lube your boolits?

[Buckshot]

I may have missed it, but you don't lube your boolits?

............Ah yes they're lubed, if you're asking about the NEI's. I sat there at the bench and hand lubed them. I hand lubed 20 of'em before I fired the string, 60, 65, 70 & 75grs of powder. I learned early on that this rifle did NOT like lube in the lube grooves, but only in the base cavity if so designed. The groups would be MUCH larger so lubed, vs lubed in the base cavity only. However the NEI's had no base cavity, so I defaulted to filling the single lube groove.

I hope to try both the NEI's and the Lyman 575611's at 200 yards before too many range trips pass by. Due to our loacl range being shut down I now have to travel 80 miles round trip to a range. It's benches are small and much too close together, and is a real PITA compared to what I've become accustomed to. It used to be that going to the range (8.5miles round trip) was something to be looked forward to, and I shot EVERY Tuesday come rain or shine. The current situation is kind of like "Putting up with it".

Instead of going because you look forward to it, it's become you're going because you have no alternative to shooting there. You may have noticed some tiny pellet holes in the target in my first post? There are people who will put up a target at 50 yards and then bang away with thier "Tac-ti-cool" pump shotgun, with a red dot sight, barrel heat shield, dual vertical handgrips (and they're wearing a bandoleer of ammo they got from Sprotsmans Guide or someplace) while banging out the cheapest field loads they're able to buy.

You're looking at your target, at the break and then look at him and say, "Shooting a shotgun, are ya?" And he says, " Oh did I hit your target?" Well, holy Hanna on a pogo stick. You're shooting 7-1/2 shot out of a cylinder bore at 50 yards, what'a YOU think?" Ya freakin' BOZO! Of course you don't say the last, but to say it again, I HATE THIS RANGE.

...............Buckshot

[Hellgate]

Buckshot,
You've got a great gun there. I think there's a typo: the Lyman mold you are showing is 577611 rather than 575611 which is not listed or doesn't exist on the Lyman site. I recognize the minie as it is my go to slug for deer or elk (depending on which of my guns is being used) with heavy loads since it has such a thick skirt to handle the big powder charges.

[gnoahhh]

Good show Buckshot!

My old 2-band Parker-Hale loves 60 gr. Goex FFFg and 530gr. Miniè balls cast from an old Rapine mold. I also found that lubing only the base cavity produces tighter groups with that mold. (Hint: don't roll paper cartridges with them lubed like that if they're going to set in the hot sun. Ask me how I know!)