32 Win Spl Loads

[IcerUSA]

I have a bit of a problem, not sure which way th head on this. Loaded up 10 rounds with boolits sized to .321 and lubed with FWFL and Red Dot at the starting load in the Lyman Cast Bullet book and all the rounds keyholed the target at 25 yds. Hummm. I then sized and lubed 5 more at .321 and paper patched them with some .002 paper with 1 wrap, boolits still wobble going thru the target at 25 yds, Should I increase the powder charge ? I did a reslug of the barrle and itn is coming out at .318 and is a tight fit from muzzle to chamber so I figured the .321 should shoot fine but :( . Any info will be greatly appreciated, Thank you, Keith

[hiram]

try 14-15 gr of 4227

[MTWeatherman]

My first guess with keyholing bullets is always an undersized bullet. However, you've already eliminated that. Next guess would be too much pressure for the alloy allowing the bullet to strip the rifling..but can't see that with a listed starting load or a paper patched bullet.

You didn't indicate what bullet you're using...its possible that if you have a 16" twist barrel, your bullet might be too long to stabilize it at lower velocities. You may indeed need more velocity to stablize the bullet. Suspect you're likely working at about 1200 fps with that starting load.

I have a 32 Special '94 Winchester with a 16" twist. 8.5 grains of Red Dot and the Lyman 323470 (165 grain) sized to .323 and minus a gas check shoots just under an inch at 30 yards from this rifle. Not spectacular, but decent for fast powder and no gas check...makes a good plinking load. Group opens up at 9.0 grains and wobbling bullets are apparent at 9.5.You might try using a bit more Red Dot (within the Cast Bullet Manual guidance) to bump your velocity up and see what happens. This 323470 bullet is likely shorter than the bullet you're using and may have more bearing surface also so no guarantee your experience will be the same as mine.

If that doesn't work...a slower powder and more velocity would be the next suggestion.

[Larry Gibson]

MTWeaterman is correct, with the 16" twist you are not driving them fast enough. Switch to 4227 as hiram suggested or 2400, 4759, 5744 or 4198. If it is a GC'd bullet in the 170-190 gr range you might try starting at 26 gr 4895 and work up to 30 gr.

Larry Gibson

[jballs918]

im using a rcbs 323 175 grainer and in using 24 grains of 4198. i can hit a man size target at 100s with a 5 bullet group in the head with open sights. just food for thought

[MTWeatherman]

Another powder that works great in the .32 Special for full performance loads is 3031...my personal favorite. I've used 31.5 gr. of it with the RCBS 170FN GC for years (actually goes 179 gr. with my alloy). It gives groups under 2" at 100 yds from my 94 (or did when worked up...63 year old eyes now yield more like 3-4"). 3031 has been a standard in 30-30 class rifles for years...and works as well as ever.

Note: Certainly not recommending that load for your rifle...would never suggest you try that load without working up to it. Good place to start would be at about 25 grains assuming you're working with a bullet in the 170-190 grain class. The old Lyman #1 Cast manual listed 33 gr. of 3031 as max for the .32 with the 180 gr. Lyman bullet. I've actually used 32 gr. in my .32 Special with no signs of max pressure. However, be advised, that's hot by todays manuals and with a .318 bore I'd be careful in moving up near maximum with that tight bore. With that bore, I'm guessing you have a Marlin so you may or may not have the 16" twist.

Lyman Cast Manual #3 is pathetic for the .32 Special. Only data is for reduced loads with fast powders...certainly does not do justice to this caliber. With essentially 30-30 case capacity and an 8 to 9% larger bore...the .32 can safely handle any load for the 30-30 with like weight bullets...actually a bit more. To put that into perspective...Lyman #1 puts maximum load for the 30-30 with a 170 gr. bullet at 30 grs. of 3031. That's why the .32 Special could be more aptly named the .32-32. Use 30-30 data in that cast manual if you switch to slower powders to work up your loads.

My experience with Red Dot is that it is at its best with light for caliber bullets and loads closer to the starting levels given in the Lyman manual. Because its an extremely fast powder...accuracy only comes a greatly reduced velocities due to the rapid pressure peak. Even if you stablize that bullet with Red Dot by moving up the pressure and velocity scale...there's an excellent chance you'll not be satisfied with the accuracy. Thats why I use the bullet I do for the Red Dot loads. I have no doubts you'll find an acceptable load for your .32 if you try slower powders and move up in velocity to stablize the bullet.

Recommendations offered by Hiram, Larry, and JBalls are all worth the try.

[sundog]

Very versatile and much underrated cartridge which, in my opinion, is a better round than 30-30, especially for cast boolits. Look at the load on castpics (http://www.castpics.net/RandD/load_data/load_data_index.htm) I worked up (for comparison).

edit added -- I forgot to mention that if you use ball powders, get the velocity and pressure up for best performance. I agree with above that with the 16 twist, you gotta get the boolit moving faster to stabilize.

[Dr. A]

HMMM

I've not had any problem with driving the bullet slow with my slow 1 to 16 twist. I've used size .321 with 6gr. of HS-6 with excellent accuracy. My 336A was made in 55 and has ballard rifleing. There are many pistol powder "cowboy loads" here:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I've tried a few, and they do well. I have a buddy with a 336A made in the late 60's that will keyhole, even with a decent dose of either 4895 or 3031. I never got to slug the gun, but would guess he needed .323.

I'd sure try to get ahold of Ken Waters "pet loads article on the 32 Special. It has good info on max powder charges with J-bullets that can help when loading the 170gr. RCBS.

What boolet are you useing?

Good luck!

[Char-Gar]

I have a very nice 1959 vintage Winchester 94 carbine in 32 Winchester Special. Somebody on this board recommend 30/H335 with the 170 RCBS GC bullet. I sized the bullets .323 and went to the range. Velocity is prolly in the 2.1 to 2.2 K fps range.

Five shots at 50 yards went into one ragged hole. Another five at 100 yards gave a 1.5" group. This from a Winnie carbine mind you.

Thus ended load development. I now just load and shoot and this rifle is my "go to" rifle and I keep 60 to 80 loaded rounds on hand at all time. It is not a plinker, but a serious rifle for serious use.

[IcerUSA]

OK, some more info : Mold is a Lyman 319247 32cal FN PB 165gr boolit, as cast it is running from 164.8 to 166.6grs, random check of some I cast. Rifle is a Marlin 336 SC, Ballard rifled .318 slugged bore dia, 1 in 16 twist, 1952 vintage.

Hope this helps a little :drinks:

[Glen]

Between the low velocity and the slow twist, I suspect that you're not getting the bullets to spin fast enough to stabilize. If this were my project, I would try increasing the velocity. BTW, 4227 and 4198 are excellent powders for this type of load.

PS -- since your bullet is already over groove diameter, there is likely little to be gained from paper-patching it. Also, how are you flaring the cases? This being a PB bullet, ANY damage to the base during seating will make them fly sideways.

[IcerUSA]

Cases are flared enough that the boolit is well below the edse of the case for the seat/crimp die. Almost to the first lube groove from the base by hand and I didn't FL resize the cases as just the neck seems to need a little help so the boolits don't fall in the case :) I think the chamber is a tad on the large size, not bad but .003 is still .003 and it only takes .001 to be a press fit or .001 over to fall in :0.
I think I'm getting close, one of my co-workers is a shooter and he said to try Win760 as long as I had some at about 30grs, started at 27 and working up, shot a few this morning at 27.5 and 28grs of Win760 and it did improve so I'll try 5 more at 28.5 and 29 and see how it goes. Also heard that SR4759 might work for a reduced load, might give that a try also.

Thank you to all for the info, sure has helped to get this thing going. :drinks:

[John Taylor]

The book says the 30-30 and 32 special came out in 1895, both smokeless from the factory. The 30-30 with it's 1 in 12 twist was designed to be reloaded with smokeless. The 32 special with it's 1 in 16 twist was designed to be reloaded with black powder. Winchester was all over the place with their rate of twist on all rifles. I had an 86 .50 EX in that had a twist of 1 in 60.
As has been already stated by others you need to keep the velocity up to keep the bullets from key holing. The 30-30 can shoot at lower velocity do to the faster twist.

[IcerUSA]

Plus all the other powders suggested here, but will have to buy those if I can't get what I have already to work.

[grumpy one]

Maybe I'm missing something, but all of the loads I've seen mentioned sound awfully stiff for plain base cast bullets to me. They all seemed to be gas check loads, but I understood him to say he's shooting plain base.

I haven't had any luck in 30 caliber plain base with loads above about 1400 fps, and preferably less. About 8 grains of Unique is as far as I can go in 30-30; another grain and you're looking at multi-inch groups at 55 yards, plus bulk lead deposits in the barrel. There may be an ultra-low 4759 load that will work - I haven't tried any less than 16 grains, which only put three out of five on the whole target board.

[IcerUSA]

So far with the Win 760 at 28.5 grs I had a group size of about inch and a half at 25 yards, going to try 29 and 29.5 sometime today if the weather co-ops. Didn't see any leading right after I shot on friday at the range but I will find out as I will clean the barrel before I go to the range, geez, work sure does crimp on the shot development LOL Also have some loaded with SR4759 at 17 and 17.5 grs to try also. will leave my findings as to the performance. :)

[IcerUSA]

Darn it, everything went to hell on the last outing to the range :( Going to start over again, try a couple other powders I have. Should have the Crony in a week or so, so that will help :)
This load development stuff sure scrambles brain cells hehehe :drinks:

[IcerUSA]

Still in the pits on this one, still waiting on the chrony to get here also, so far everything I have tried is not working, but no over pressure signs yet so thats good :) More updates later as we progress LOL

[IcerUSA]

Chrony is in and so far it looks like the plain base boolit is going to like about 1200 fps, now to figure out a powder that will give me consistant shots :castmine: :drinks: