the paperpatched muzzleloader

[johnson1942]

would like to talk with muzzleloader shooters who shoot paperpatched bullets. im building my 4th and 5th paperpatched muzzleloader now and really like the way paperpatched bullets shoot. i want to learn everything their is to know about this type of shooting. my two .50 cals. shoot a 700 grain bullet and they shoot consistantly very tight groups. their knock down power is unriveled. surpriseingly their redoil isnt a shoulder buster. lets share paperpatched info. thanks

[idahoron]

I have written a lot about paper patching my rifles check out the sticky. I use them for hunting. Ron

[sharps4590]

Ned Roberts in his book, "The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle" has quite a bit about paper patches and muzzleloaders. Most of what I remember about the book is that they were more often than not cross patched and utilized a false muzzle. Interesting stuff and something I would like to undertake sometime. I can't tell you anything but I will be watching this thread to learn. Good thread!

[Nobade]

Johnson1942, welcome to the forum! A good place for your first post.

Tell us about your rifles - are they slug guns? Hunting type rifles? The more we can learn about this stuff the better!

And do read the sticky above, Idahoron has written quite a bit on the subject.

Myself, I have several rifles I shoot paper patched boolits out of. A Remington 700ML that I rebarreled to 35 cal and converted to use 32 acp cases to carry primers, a White 97 rebarreled to 375, a Gonic 45 cal, and a Ruger 77/50 50 cal. I don't shoot the Ruger much since it only weighs about 5 lb and kicks hard with 500gr. bullets and 100gr. powder. The others are a lot more fun to shoot! I double wrap all the boolits, just like for fixed ammunition, and shoot them with a variety of wads. Lately I have been playing with grease cookies just like I use in my 45-70 ammo; a card wad, lube cookie, another card. I am getting terrific accuracy this way and can shoot quite a few rounds before I need to wipe.

[johnson1942]

nobade: thank you, i couldnt shoot a .50 like yours, im too small. mine weighs 11 lbs. and the bullet is 700 grains. i have a dead mule in the butt stock. recoil is accepable. the accracy sure makes patching adictive . like to read more detail about your guns. tell me if you can. does 5 thousand deep grooves shoot as reliably accurate with a paper patched bullet as a 4 thousand deep groove muzzleloader? or is their no diff. thanks johnson1942

[stronics]

Nobade,
I don't mean to capture the thread but who did your rebarrel the 700?
Thanks, and sorry guys,
David

[Nobade]

Nobade,
I don't mean to capture the thread but who did your rebarrel the 700?
Thanks, and sorry guys,
David

I did. I build rifles for a living so it's not a big trick. I used an Adams & Bennett barrel from Midway, and made the bolt mods and breechplug myself. I bedded it into an old ADL stock, so it looks just like any other Rem 700 from the '70's. Sure is fun to shoot, very accurate and kicks about like a .223.

[OhioBeekeeper]

I shoot .442 diameter, 550 grain paper patch bullets out of my Whitworth, and Volunteer rifles. I patch them so they are just snug going in and drop on the powder under the weight of the only the loading rod. I also have a bunch of grease groove hexagonal bullets a friend cast from a mould made by Leon Kranen, and they shoot really well too out of the Whitworth.

[idahoron]

I shoot .442 diameter, 550 grain paper patch bullets out of my Whitworth, and Volunteer rifles. I patch them so they are just snug going in and drop on the powder under the weight of the only the loading rod. I also have a bunch of grease groove hexagonal bullets a friend cast from a mould made by Leon Kranen, and they shoot really well too out of the Whitworth.

My latest rifle is a Hawken .451 1-18 twist. I am using a RCBS 11mm bullet. They come out at .446 I like that bullet a lot. They seat a little more snug than the rang rod weight but not a whole lot. Just snug enough to keep them from coming off the powder. Ron

[Duffer]

Ditto the OP afa learning all I can here.

and a big Thanx! to Ron for his research and write-up on the paperpatching!!! :drinks:

Here's a scary thought for ya, Ron: Some guy you don't know and whom you've never met is modeling his ML plans based on your experiences. :shock:

I've been an archery hunter for a while now. Headed to your panhandle again for elk (and maybe a wolf if I'm lucky) in a month as a matter of fact! I recently traded one of my bows for a used stainless Knight Bighorn and viola, yet another new hobby is added to my wife's nightmare!

My motto is: anything that can be done simply and on a budget can be made way too complicated and expensive! So that's what I do. It's not enough to just buy some supplies and shoot this smokepole. I've gotta make the boolits and the lube and the patches and and..... :rolleyes:

My Lee 500S&W mold showed up yesterday. and so it begins

[Nobade]

OK Duffer, you can look at it that way. But Just remember that factory made bullets and sabots are several bucks each and once you are making your own boolits for next to nothing you will be able to shoot way more for the same money and get a lot better with your rifle.

Plus not having to fight with your rifle like I see so many at the range do. Those sabots must be a real pain to use because I constantly see guys cussing, beating, and upset with their rifles while I keep loading and shooting paper patch boolits in mine with no effort and great accuracy. Sure it takes more time at home to make them, but that's part of the fun and they sure work a lot better when you get to the range!

A hint - 45 ACP plastic flip top ammo boxes are great for carrying your boolits and keeping them protected.

[Duffer]

I love the process. The DIY-ness. (is that a word?) ;-)

The expense for me comes from not owning ANYTHING related to this new ML or casting boolits.

My old man (R.I.P. dad) was a big reloading fanatic and did some ML casting. I'm sorry I didn't show more interest while he was still here. Kids can be butheads, ya know. ;)

Oh. My Bighorn is a .50 btw

[johnson1942]

idahoron thanks again for inspireing me to go to paperpatching muzzleloaders. shot my two big .50s with the 700 grain bullets i cast for them and 100 grains to 125 grains 2f behind them. i am always amazed at their extreem accracy. at 100 yards the holes are always almost touching. it has been so dry here shooting is a fire hazard. rained some so i got to shoot again. in the process of putting a douglas .450-.458 1-18 twist 35 and 1/2 inches long on a renagade. will shoot a 500 to 550 pp bullet. want to use that for deer and antalope. thanks again johnson1942

[idahoron]

I am glad I had the opportunity to infect you guys with the bug of better accuracy with 1800's technology.

700 grain bullets,, WOW is all I got to say. Ron

[HARRYMPOPE]

its funny how "purists" on many forms put down using anything but a patched ball (in a smoothebore flinter of course) as not needed and new fangled and clearly un-sporting.


George

[waksupi]

Harry, I do that, just because I've had a lot of years of experience seeing the killing power of a PRB.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Harry, I do that, just because I've had a lot of years of experience seeing the killing power of a PRB.

The point its that its not new technology and many guys are elitist in their views on muzzle loders.Look at what idahoron is doing with his Hot Rod Hawken.I'd say he has a bit of experience with kiling power of a conical.My buddy who is a NW trade gun guy also hunts with a .45 conical gun for Elk.Many people act "old timey" "traditional or"cowboy" to try to match the image they want to put out of themselves. The internet has made this worse as it's impersonal and for all I know the guys shoot maybe once a month. Many talk like they are experts and are just repeating the party line of a particular forum.Since i have played with muzzloaders seriously again this last two years i have found much of the repeated "rules" rather dubious and often just horse puckey.

George

[Nobade]

Heck, I just like to play with whatever attracts my attention at the moment and see how good I can get it to work. It's all fun so why not?

[HARRYMPOPE]

Heck, I just like to play with whatever attracts my attention at the moment and see how good I can get it to work. It's all fun so why not?

Yep me too.As long as it launches a cast bullet its all good.

George

[wgr]

i got so caught up in the pp boolit thing that i built a rifle just for them. on top od the 7 other ml i have. but the bottom line is that pp boolits work and work well

[johnson1942]

wgr: and do they ever work well. i like every thing about them. makeing them. wraping them, ease of loading. and the extreem consistant accracy. i like the idea when im hunting that the only reason i could miss the critter is me. not the gun the load or the bullet. ppb is all i use in my 2 45/70s also. johnson 1942