Martini Enfield sporter in .303 Epps, cast loads ?

[texassako]

I discovered my newly acquired Martini was actually in .303 Epps; so the initial range trip also became a fireforming session. I have a digital copy of the Epps reloading guide, but there are no cast loads. I was never going to crank up the loads on this rifle, but the extra case life will be nice. I just have a hankering for light(7.5lbs with scope), short(35" w/ 22" barrel), unusual rifles. Can I use .303 British cast load info even with the case volume difference? Anybody have a load to recommend? See below, discovered it was converted to .30-40 Krag Improved using an '03 2-groove barrel.

[Frank46]

Since the 35 rem is a cast bullet cartridge I think that using that loading data would be a good place to start. Frank

[Dutchman]

.303 Brit -- .303 Epps Improved

http://images115.fotki.com/v687/photos/2/28344/3886627/epps-vi.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

Try any good 180 - 220 gr GC'd cast bullet that fits the throat/groove depth like a 314299. Start over 29 gr 4895 with a 3/4 gr dacron filler. Work up 34 gr in 1/2 gr increments until accuracy goes south. A nice sweet spot will be found in that range.

Nice rifle BTW!

Larry Gibson

[texassako]

.303 Brit -- .303 Epps Improved

http://images114.fotki.com/v962/photos/2/28344/3886627/epps-vi.jpg

Yep, that is it. I did not have another .303 around, but it makes my .25-06 case look a little homely.


Try any good 180 - 220 gr GC'd cast bullet that fits the throat/groove depth like a 314299. Start over 29 gr 4895 with a 3/4 gr dacron filler. Work up 34 gr in 1/2 gr increments until accuracy goes south. A nice sweet spot will be found in that range.

Nice rifle BTW!

Larry Gibson

Thanks for that load info, and the compliment. I could use a new pillow, and is one I can use up my partial of 4895 on. The barrel and throat are very clean; so it either had a custom commercial barrel or turned down new milsurp barrel put on when sporterized. Now I just need to remember where I set my baggie with the chamber casting and bore slug.

[curator]

Improved cases like the Epps and Ackley usually need a couple of more grains of powder to attain the same velocity of non-improved case loads. They will also create slightly less pressure with the heavier loads due to larger case volume. The advantage of the improved design is slightly higher velocity at the same or less pressure, but you do need to burn more powder to get it. 30-34 grains of IMR4895 should be a good load with a 180-200 grain cast bullet. 18 grains of Alliant 2400 or 20-22 grains of Reloder7 will also work well with the same weight slugs.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have several 303 rifles and have always fancied an Epps. I'm having trouble deciding which one. I don't have a Martini however. That will be an excellent cast boolit shooter!

[texassako]

I reslugged the barrel and I got better engraving and a longer slug. Bore is actually 2 groove .2995/.308 with about 60% lands/ 40% grooves. I actually have a .30/40 Improved rifle(practically the same as the Epps). I had in my original notes it was a .311 bore, and it showed no pressure signs shooting .303 factory ammo even with expanding to the improved chamber. I don't think I will try that again.

[303Guy]

A two-groove may be a bit trickier with cast. Less driving surface and more base distortion with the amount of 'swaging down'. A GC design sans the GC might solve the base distortion problem. If you get it right let me know how - I have mint two-groove that should really be used for cast or paper patched.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

That rifle is SWEET!!!!!

[texassako]

Thanks for the compliment, I finally picked up a Lee C309-170 flat nose mold, some gas checks, and a Lee .309 sizer to try in it. A heavier bullet may have been a better choice, but I have to start somewhere. I am trying to find a scope that does not interfere with ejection so much as well. I thought I had found one, but it ended up being a pistol scope. I still need to get to the range to shoot my fire form loads before I can even start working on a load. I guess it will give me time to practice casting.

[Reg]

That barrel sounds like a 2 groove Springfield. If in good condition they tend to shoot cast very well. I think I would be careful with full 303 regular and especially the improved loads using the regular .311 bullet. They could run with higher pressure because of the extra .003 in bullet dia. With the .308 groove dia. you might try regular .308 bullets ( might have to reduce the expander button in the dies ) and then you should be able to go back to the regular published loads. Nice rifle with a good cartridge combination. Get it on paper, bet it shoots great.

:drinks:

[Tedly]

Got the same thing going with a Dutch Mannlicher w/a 2 groove Springfield bbl. that was bought chambered in 30/40 Krag . Since it didn't feed well enough to suit me I rechambered it to .303 British, or I guess a .30X.303 . I shoot both .308dia. handloads and .311 jacketed factory as well as cast .311dia. C312-185-1R , #311284 and #311397 in it. The .311 jacketed loads are higher pressure , but not anything extreme judging from usual criteria. Normally , I load with a .308 jacketed and shoot the cast at .311. Bore slugs at .300"X.309". I can shoot both any factory 30/40 Krag or .303 British but cases have a double shoulder due to original chamber not cleaning up.I believe the longer remnant of the 30/40 Krag chamber may alieviate some of the potential pressure when shooting .303 factory.

[helice]

I too am enamored with your Martini. Nice piece. Martinis are so attractive.
I went back into my notes on your 2 groove barrel. NRA & Col. Harrison published that this type rifling did well with Cast. I quote:
"Cast bullets (boolits) with short groove-diameter body, the rest of the boolit bore-size are guided positively by the abnormally broad lands and shoot excellently in these barrels. Ideal No. 311334 is such a boolit, and is best even for light loads."
I have about 40 of these 311334s and about 40 of the 311284. That'd be enough for a couple of boxes of each. They both run close to 200 grains checked and greased with the 284 running closer to 220 gr. These are checked and LBT blue lubed, BHN around 15-16 per LBT hardness tester. If you cover my postage and keep me informed of your results I'll send them to you. What say you? :bigsmyl2:

[texassako]

I too am enamored with your Martini. Nice piece. Martinis are so attractive.
I went back into my notes on your 2 groove barrel. NRA & Col. Harrison published that this type rifling did well with Cast. I quote:
"Cast bullets (boolits) with short groove-diameter body, the rest of the boolit bore-size are guided positively by the abnormally broad lands and shoot excellently in these barrels. Ideal No. 311334 is such a boolit, and is best even for light loads."
I have about 40 of these 311334s and about 40 of the 311284. That'd be enough for a couple of boxes of each. They both run close to 200 grains checked and greased with the 284 running closer to 220 gr. These are checked and LBT blue lubed, BHN around 15-16 per LBT hardness tester. If you cover my postage and keep me informed of your results I'll send them to you. What say you? :bigsmyl2:

How could I ever pass up an offer like that? It will really help me figure out what mold will be next, already considering something heavier. Thanks!

[texassako]

I finally found a scope that allows the empties to eject out the back. I am not sure of the looks and really wish it did not have all the extra ugly rails, but I guess being on clearance and having enough eye relief(needed 4.5-6") trumps looks for now. It is a 4x Barska with illuminated reticle, and get to try it out fireforming some brass.

[Four Fingers of Death]

HaHa! A tacticool Rourke's Drift assault carbeen! Gotta go with what works and that looks like it would work fine. You may need to cobble up a leather cheekpiece toget a better cheekmould, but other that that, you look good to go!