what is it like to live in portland is a gun owner?

[Aaron]

Anyone?

Thanks

Aaron

[shaune509]

Oregon or Maine?
Shaune509

[Aaron]

Sorry, Oregon.

[leftiye]

Very wet?

[chboats]

I don't know about the ranges around there but there are plenty of gun shops.

Carl

[MtGun44]

The only thing I know about Oregon is that they have a bunch of lowlifes hanging around
the gas pumps to pump your gas because you're too stupid to pump your own. Didn't
seem to bode well to me for the state in general.

No offense if there are some real folks that work the gas jockey jobs, but all I saw was guys
that looked like they just got done with their latest 7-11 stickup or drug deal and stopped
by.

Bill

[SlowSmokeN]

I live in Southwest Oregon and I love it. Very gun friendly and the fishing is great. It is very strange not being able to pump your own gas. I was giving tips for the first few months before a guy said they were not permitted to take them.

[xacex]

Portland is not a gun friendly city. The chief of police has made it his mission with his special task force to make that clear, as well as have all of his officers trained to harass anyone who decides to open carry, or have a concealed weapons permit and get pulled over. Of all of the city's in Oregon it is the liest gun friendly. However, with that said Oregon is very gun friendly. There is no weird restrictions on ownership of any legal firearm. Class 111 firearms, and suppressors are also allowed. There are a lot of rural areas to shoot, and clubs or shooting ranges everywhere "even Portland". Hi capacity magazines are allowed if you are into that thing, and can be purchased at almost all sporting goods, or gun shops around the state.
You will get used to having someone pump your gas. Free's up time to go into the little shop and grab a beverage. If you have a diesel, or ride a motorcycle you still pump your own. I look at it this way, I don't mind paying a few cents more for gas if it keeps someone off welfare. Some of these people are the ones that never graduated, or cant even read. This is an opportunity for them to make a contribution to society rather than be a burden to those of us that pay state tax.
xacex

[Advil]

Oregon in general is a great state for gun ownership, concealed carry and class III. Other than that, the weather's nice. Everything else is going downhill. Cost of living is insane. Property tax and income tax is brutal.

Portland city itself is one of the worst ratholes of liberal progressiveness in the nation. "Keep Portland Strange" is their actual motto. They aren't kidding in the slightest. Most of us of the political persuasion that like guns stay the heck out of Portland unless absolutely necessary. Traffic is a beast and half there too.

[trixter]

I live where SlowSmokeN lives and I was born and raised here, I guess I just don't know any better. My family are 4 generations of gun owners and hunters, I continued in that vein and also added fishing to the venue. As far as I know I am the first to do any reloading though. I am in the process of teaching my son, and the grandsons watch intently (for a while) It is a great hobby!

[mpmarty]

Moved here to southern Oregon in 1979 when the building trades collapsed due to Jimmy Carters 21% interest rates. Nobody could qualify for a home loan at those rates. I left Nevada and moved here as living was cheaper and better. I stay out of the two communist enclaves, Portland and Eugene. I also NEVER cross the state line into California for any reason. I go east and then south on vacations to Arizona and New Mexico on my bike.

[DrCaveman]

Well other than maybe Dallas, not sure you will find a big city in the u.s. that is 'gun friendly'. Density of people invokes paranoia and policies of control. That's why I'll bet 75% of forum members live rural. If they don't, they wish they did.

I'd characterize Oregon as libertarian at heart. You still gotta drive out of Portland a little ways (drove 30 minutes toward mt hood to fire my first gun purchase back in 2002, baby eagle 9mm) to shoot unless you want to be raped by indoor range owners (financially, c'mon). But again I think that is SOP for big cities.

As for everywhere else in the state, nowhere is big enough to deliver any real influence on gun politics unless you insist on being some kind of John Wayne tough guy. Just go about your business in a polite manner, and you will be dealt with likewise.

Yeah, don't carry a 45 into the natural foods store in Eugene and expect anything less than fear. Duh. The farm store, you'll get some pleasant conversation with some down to earth folks.

[fatelk]

That's why I'll bet 75% of forum members live rural. If they don't, they wish they did.
I know I sure wish I still did. I grew up in rural Oregon, on a farm. Now I live a little too close to Eugene for comfort, but even that's not so bad compared to Portland or Seattle. I wonder what it is about cities that makes city people so wacky? Or is it just that wacky people are drawn to cities? I know Multnomah county is in many ways a different world than Oregon as a whole. I overheard a group of "politically active" students in the cafeteria at the community college a couple years ago lamenting at how "conservative" Oregon is. One of them made the comment that "If the vote's even close in Portland, we lose". Portland rules Oregon, and it's definitely "weird" up there.

I'll be in Portland tomorrow. I'm sure not looking forward to the traffic and all that, but it's the only place in the state that has the specialist (doctor) my son needs to see.

[MtGun44]

"an opportunity for them to make a contribution to society" . . . [smilie=l:

LOL! Whatever you say.

Bill

[sw282]

0regon is a beautiful place to visit. l shot ground squirrels near Goose Lake a few years back. lt was a treat not having to pay sales tax at the stores or pump my own gas. lt kinda reminded me of the days of the "service stations". l was treated cordially at the Portland Airport when l picked up my rifle case from baggage. On arrival and departure both. Also at the rental car desk. Living in the South all my life l noticed the racial diversity was different from Augusta Ga. l got a friendly greeting when l visited the Nosler plant in Bend 0r. Would love to visit again

[H.Callahan]

Portland rules Oregon
Ya oughta live in Illinois. Chicago absolutely dominates the rest of the state. When you think Illinois, think Chicago. The rest of the state is a lot more sane, but we get steamrolled by the "mistake by the lake", no matter what we do.

[xacex]

"an opportunity for them to make a contribution to society" . . . [smilie=l:

LOL! Whatever you say.

Bill

I guess you like panhandlers or teens walking the street, and breaking into your car for your change. I would rather keep them busy with enough money to have a beer after work than pay for the destruction that's caused when they don't have a job. If you don't like how it is done here, fine. We export enough to make up for your tourist dollar. Its funny when some folks visit here, and say you should change this, or that. They either learn to like this place for what is is, or leave saying its a weird state. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on you way out. More room for me...
xacex

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Move to Idaho, we lag behind only Montana as far as the Constitution and adherence to it is concerned. And, they are changing, they now have medical marijuana, as does Oregon (iirc).

I moved here in summer of 1978 from Illinois after reseaching the states out west carefully.

Rich

[xacex]

I spent several years of my life in McCall Idaho. Loved it there in the summer. It was cold in winter with subzero temps more often than not. Probably doesn't even snow there now. My brother still lives there, and gets a kick out my complaints about the time change every time I visit. Beautiful state Idaho is. I would move there if it had a coast!
xacex

[wrench man]

Yeah, don't carry a 45 into the natural foods store in Eugene and expect anything less than fear. Duh. The farm store, you'll get some pleasant conversation with some down to earth folks.

The GF was looking for something that I'm pretty sure isn't edible? so we went into the main one over on campus, you should have seen them scatter like rats when I walked in!, a guy with a buzz cut, ball cap, Tshirt, Carhart jeans and lace up packer boots!, I sure was out of place!!:shock::redneck:
We look just like everyone else at the farm store.

[quilbilly]

There is a reason why Portland is called Moscow on the Willamette. Almost as hard left as Seattle. Anything beyond the city limits is pretty gun friendly. My best advice is to not store your firearms in the case and especially not in the basement if you have one due to the moisture. Beyond that the climate is pretty congenial once you realize the stuff falling out of the sky is just water. Deer hunting can be excellent on the west side of the Cascades as can be the elk hunting. I used too love deer hunting along the Willamette River bottoms from Salem to Corvallis but a small flat bottom boat is necessary. Eastern Oregon is wonderful and only about 3 hours away.

[Ickisrulz]

I guess you like panhandlers or teens walking the street, and breaking into your car for your change. I would rather keep them busy with enough money to have a beer after work than pay for the destruction that's caused when they don't have a job. If you don't like how it is done here, fine. We export enough to make up for your tourist dollar. Its funny when some folks visit here, and say you should change this, or that. They either learn to like this place for what is is, or leave saying its a weird state. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on you way out. More room for me...
xacex

It sounds to me like the local government is forcing you to buy a service from someone even though you don’t want or need that service. Sure these gas pumpers aren’t out committing crimes (while they’re at work anyway), but they aren’t really needed or wanted for in their current positions. So it is a form of welfare and not much of a contribution to society.

[Silver Hand]

The only thing I know about Oregon is that they have a bunch of lowlifes hanging around
the gas pumps to pump your gas because you're too stupid to pump your own. Didn't
seem to bode well to me for the state in general.

No offense if there are some real folks that work the gas jockey jobs, but all I saw was guys
that looked like they just got done with their latest 7-11 stickup or drug deal and stopped
by.

Bill

The good people of Oregon vote in the hands off the gas pump law, every few years! So the citizens that live in our state have jobs. Granted our minimum wage is not the highest standard of living at $8.80 an hour, it comes out to about $350.00 a week or $18,304 a year.
It helps feed a few kids and keeps some of our neighbors from loosing there homes.
What is your state doing for its misplaced workers?

[Silver Hand]

The only thing I know about Oregon is that they have a bunch of lowlifes hanging around
the gas pumps to pump your gas because you're too stupid to pump your own. Didn't
seem to bode well to me for the state in general.

No offense if there are some real folks that work the gas jockey jobs, but all I saw was guys
that looked like they just got done with their latest 7-11 stickup or drug deal and stopped
by.

Bill

The good people of Oregon vote in the hands off the gas pump law, every few years! So the citizens that live in our state have jobs. Granted our minimum wage is not the highest standard of living at $8.80 an hour, it comes out to about $350.00 a week or $18,304 a year.
It helps feed a few kids and keeps some of our neighbors from loosing there homes.
What is your state doing for its misplaced workers?

[xacex]

It sounds to me like the local government is forcing you to buy a service from someone even though you don’t want or need that service. Sure these gas pumpers aren’t out committing crimes (while they’re at work anyway), but they aren’t really needed or wanted for in their current positions. So it is a form of welfare and not much of a contribution to society.

Well, it is a form of welfare for those who would rather contribute than sit on their *** on a street corner, or squat in a run down house. I like the idea that my wife doesn't need to get out of her car in Portland where the majority of crime in Oregon happens. I ride a motorcycle, and drive a diesel most of the time so I don't let it bother me, and I pump my own. Do I need the service? no, but it is a convenience. Do I want it? I will pay the extra so my wife can have some security, and doesn't come home smelling like she works in a pit crew. This debate comes up often here in Oregon, and has for 30 or more years. If you think people don't want, or need it they have had the choice to change it, but it always gets shut down. When I am out of state i miss it. I cant tell you how many years they have tried to put a sales tax on a ballot. The way I see it, if you have a job, and pay you taxes,bills,child support ect.you are contributing to keeping society working. If you are sitting on your butt collecting a check when you are capable of at least being a gas jockey you are costing our state more money, and should move south of the border, California that is. If the budget in our state balances out at the end of the year with a surplus we receive a check for the balance of our taxes paid. If everyone here works, and paid taxes we would get refund every year. That means more money back in my pocket,hence the contribution. Not everyone need to be a boy scout to contribute to something.
xacex

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Since the week after we met my then girlfriend, now wife of 22+ years thinks I am her personal pump jockey, door opener, and handyman.

And, of course, those gas stations do not charge 6-10 cents a gallon to have someone pump your gas.

I'll just stick with SW Idaho, but thanks for reinforcing my decision to move 34 years ago.

Rich

[Silver Hand]

I am sorry. This is a bit off topic isn't it.

[MikeS]

New Jersey also doesn't allow folks to pump their own gas. I know in NJ they're not allowed to charge substantially more for the gas because it's being pumped for you, is it the same in OR? Down here in FL when you can find a station that even offers 'full serve' (meaning they pump the gas, not full serve like it was years ago) the price difference between self and full serve is something like 45¢ to 50¢ per gallon! That really adds up quickly! When I lived in NYS I usually had the gas pumped for me, and IIRC the price difference wasn't much, maybe a nickel a gallon or so. Back then they also really gave you 'full serve' checking the oil level, battery water, tire pressure, etc. unlike today, although I don't know if that's still true in NYS.

[xacex]

Idaho is the only state around us that gas is cheaper. It is averaging $3.56 here, and $3.52 there. Washington, and California pay more to pump their own gas than what we pay here. This isn't full service mind you. Most will wash your windows if you ask, but for the most part it is fill only. My wife has one station she goes to because the guys always wash the windows for her.
Rich, you are a good man. It see less and less of the younger men being true gentlemen these days. This is why my wife has her gas station. The attendants are not lowlife thugs, and treat her like a lady. Even the young buck working their first job there will do the windows.
So what would we save if we did pump our gas? I don't think the savings would be worthwhile.
xacex

[Ickisrulz]

Well, it is a form of welfare for those who would rather contribute than sit on their *** on a street corner, or squat in a run down house. I like the idea that my wife doesn't need to get out of her car in Portland where the majority of crime in Oregon happens. I ride a motorcycle, and drive a diesel most of the time so I don't let it bother me, and I pump my own. Do I need the service? no, but it is a convenience. Do I want it? I will pay the extra so my wife can have some security, and doesn't come home smelling like she works in a pit crew. This debate comes up often here in Oregon, and has for 30 or more years. If you think people don't want, or need it they have had the choice to change it, but it always gets shut down. When I am out of state i miss it. I cant tell you how many years they have tried to put a sales tax on a ballot. The way I see it, if you have a job, and pay you taxes,bills,child support ect.you are contributing to keeping society working. If you are sitting on your butt collecting a check when you are capable of at least being a gas jockey you are costing our state more money, and should move south of the border, California that is. If the budget in our state balances out at the end of the year with a surplus we receive a check for the balance of our taxes paid. If everyone here works, and paid taxes we would get refund every year. That means more money back in my pocket,hence the contribution. Not everyone need to be a boy scout to contribute to something.
xacex

The main problem as I see it is that you have lost a part of your freedom because you now must provide for those who are too irresponsible to get themselves a real job.

You no longer have the choice to pump your own gas or allow others to touch your personal property.

Would it be OK if your government said you could no longer cut your own grass and that you had to hire someone to do this for you? Would it be OK if you weren’t allowed to paint your own house, etc.

As far as your wife smelling like a pit crew when pumping her own gas…are you serious?

[1bluehorse]

I worked nights in a gas station to help put myself through college (GI Bill wasn't enough with a family). Also, just what is the definition now of a "real job", thats a pretty arrogant statement. Does it have to have a certain pay scale or title?? and as far as the grass cutting and house painting, that doesn't compare. At a station you're purchasing their product using their equipment on their property. If you think pumping your own gas is saving some sort of "personal freedom" for you then don't move to Oregon. Being able to pay at the pump instead of going inside to "pay first" or wait in line for someone else to do the same, (leaving your auto unattended) is also convenient. Especially when it's raining, which it does occasionally west of the Cascades. I live across the river in Washington state (East of the Cascades) where we have the honor, privilige, and "freedom" of pumping our own and still pay higher prices.

[xacex]

As far as your wife smelling like a pit crew when pumping her own gas…are you serious?

No, are you?
xacex

[Ickisrulz]

I worked nights in a gas station to help put myself through college (GI Bill wasn't enough with a family). Also, just what is the definition now of a "real job", thats a pretty arrogant statement. Does it have to have a certain pay scale or title?? and as far as the grass cutting and house painting, that doesn't compare. At a station you're purchasing their product using their equipment on their property. If you think pumping your own gas is saving some sort of "personal freedom" for you then don't move to Oregon. Being able to pay at the pump instead of going inside to "pay first" or wait in line for someone else to do the same, (leaving your auto unattended) is also convenient. Especially when it's raining, which it does occasionally west of the Cascades. I live across the river in Washington state (East of the Cascades) where we have the honor, privilige, and "freedom" of pumping our own and still pay higher prices.

A real job is providing a good or service to people that have a need or desire for that item or service. It is not some made up position that people have no choice but to pay for and is not essential.

As far as a pay scale is concerned, adults with families should find the skills and job to care for those who they are responsible for and live within their means. So, if a guy can live off minimum wage, great. If not, get some improvement.

I pay at the pump and have for years and years. It's standard practice...everywhere. I can't remember the last time I pumped gas and got wet either...since service stations in the modern world are all covered. All this and I don't have to pay a gas jockey.

[popper]

Gee, I used to get full service, by the owner or a mechanic, for $0.23, $0.19 if a gas war was on.

[DrCaveman]

This all reminds me of the old slogan posted on the highways on your way OUT of Oregon: 'thanks for visiting'

We like our low density. It needn't change. If you don't love the place despite it's quirks then please don't come live here.

I don't know an Oregonian who wishes to be anywhere else.

[mpmarty]

I still pump my own gas here in Oregon. The Chevron station I patronize knows me, I have a pickup truck that won't hold a nozzle so someone has to stand and hold it to fill it. My SAAB has a filler on the right and the cap is green just like a diesel. The attendents take one look at it and step back to let me do my thing. My BMW motorcycle is exempt from the stupid law governing filling stations. All in all it's no problem for me and I enjoy doing it myself.

[Silver Hand]

The main problem as I see it is that you have lost a part of your freedom because you now must provide for those who are too irresponsible to get themselves a real job.

You no longer have the choice to pump your own gas or allow others to touch your personal property.

Would it be OK if your government said you could no longer cut your own grass and that you had to hire someone to do this for you? Would it be OK if you weren’t allowed to paint your own house, etc.

As far as your wife smelling like a pit crew when pumping her own gas…are you serious?

What part of we the citizens of the state of Oregon vote it in to law as a matter of choice, don't you understand?
We are still off topic!

[Ickisrulz]

What part of we the citizens of the state of Oregon vote it in to law as a matter of choice, don't you understand?
We are still off topic!

I understand alright. I also don't like the idea that 51% of the voters can agree to something stupid and everyone has to do it.

Why not let the free market drive the issue? Gas stations can choose if they want someone to pump the gas for customers and then customers can choose which station they want to get their gas from.

I suspect this whole matter is driven by environmental concerns, real or imagined. We lose our freedoms when it's an environmental matter it seems.

[mdi]

I love Oregon. As for gas pumping, some state law mandates an employee pump gas, no self serve. But that adds some jobs to the market. I live is South West Oregon and my only complaint is a lack of places to shoot. A bunch of folks shoot on their own land and friend's property up away from the coast, but not much anywhere else. Since I moved here I now have a new bumper sticker; "Welcome to Oregon, now GO HOME"...

BTW; Gas station attendents don't add to the cost of gas anymore than grocery store clerks add to the cost of milk. As stated before the citizens of Oregon voted for this. Nuttin' to do with welfare, it's just a job. People still have to apply for the job just like any other job and the state has nuttin' to do with it. My gas is usually purchased from Fred Myers and the guys that pump my gas are employed by Fred Myers. Where did the idea that welfare or the state had anything to do with this? None of the stations in south western Oregon, from Brookings to above Coos Bay, and from the coast over to Medford, have any low lifes hanging around waiting to pump my gas. You must be thinking about L.A....

[DrCaveman]

Aaron-

The direct answer to your question is:

You have to drive a ways to shoot outdoors. I don't know any indoor ranges that I would consider cheap and I don't like losing brass. I also like to shoot at the distance I want to and-heaven forbid- have a can of beer sometime during my outdoor fun.

CCW permits are not too tough to obtain, open carry will vary from community to community. You can buy everything shy of class III items at stores, and if you are class III, there are also vendors for the very fun stuff.

In a nutshell, it's pretty dang good for a metro area of ~2 million. And if your wishes aren't met, then move south or east within the state.

[facetious]

If you could live any where in the state where would live. ie: retiring there, my wife had thought it would be a nice place to live. She has some internet fiends that live in different parts of the state and love it. We have driven through both the west side and the east side and the vegetation on the west side impressed her a lot. She grew up in southern CO. It would be nice to get out off the big city and to LIVE some place where you could plink a little and do some fishing and camping. Not have GO some place to do stuff. She would like to get away from the high elevation , she can not go up in the hill's any more , it messes with her migrain's and a low front here will nail her, it is like going up three or four thousand feet.

[DrCaveman]

Facetious

I would recommend southern Oregon for what you are looking for. Low humidity, but enough rain for trees & crops to grow. Grants pass is worth looking into. 30k people, u can drive 5 minutes to plink, the rogue river has great fishing, the redwoods are 2 hrs away, lots of camping & hunting opportunities. I know people of all political persuasions living there. As stated before, no sales tax. Low overall cost of living. Another option might be the coos bay area if you want to be on the ocean.

Good luck in your search I think you will not regret it.

[fatelk]

I grew up near the southern Oregon coast. I loved it in many ways; still do when we drive over for a visit. I lived out of town with plenty of room to roam, even 100 yards to shoot right on the property.

I would probably live there now if the economy wasn't in shambles. The friends I still have down there say that there are so many retired Californians and city folks there now that any time someone wants to bring in any kind of industry with jobs they shoot it down. They want to take over the area and make it like where they came from. Most anyone with get-up-and-go has got up and left for where the work is. It's really sad for any younger folks who want to raise a family in a more rural area.

We just got back from the Portland area. To be honest I absolutely hate it. No offense to the city folks here, or Portlanders in particular, but I would rather move to the middle of Wyoming and deal with the isolation and constant wind than move to Portland with its traffic, crowds, politics, people, "weirdness", traffic, crowds, etc., etc..

But that's just me and my own personal preferences. I know there are plenty of good folks who live in cities and love it, but it's not for me. To each their own I guess.

[crazy mark]

I work right next door to the UO in Eugene. Reminds me of the strip in Yokuska. I carry everywhere except at my work. I hate Portland because of the liberal stance and the way they can be a pain over concealed holders. Law says you can carry concealed on school grounds as long as you don't work there. Port of Portland cops hassle people outside of the restricted area at PDX. Supposed to be able to carry there also. They told the state they would do what they wanted.

[mdi]

If you could live any where in the state where would live. ie: retiring there, my wife had thought it would be a nice place to live. She has some internet fiends that live in different parts of the state and love it. We have driven through both the west side and the east side and the vegetation on the west side impressed her a lot. She grew up in southern CO. It would be nice to get out off the big city and to LIVE some place where you could plink a little and do some fishing and camping. Not have GO some place to do stuff. She would like to get away from the high elevation , she can not go up in the hill's any more , it messes with her migrain's and a low front here will nail her, it is like going up three or four thousand feet.

We chose the southern coast for retirement because we didn't care too much for the Grants pass/Medford weather, too hot in summer and too cold in winter. The coast's weather is pretty even; some really cold days in winter and a few really hot days in summer, with plenty of rain. Excellent Salmon fishing and ocean fishing up and down the coast and trees everywhere! Plenty of outdoor stuff to do year round (the folks we met don't let rain stop them from doing anything or going anywhere as the rain doesn't cause gridlock and floods like it does in So. CA). Oregon takes real good care of the state campgrounds and there are plenty of them around. Hwy 101 gets a little crowded with RVs in the spring/summer but they soon disappear when school starts.

We came from So. CA and definately left L.A. where it belongs, 900 miles from here! Not too many folks from CA want CA ideas here as they can see the difference daily in all aspects of life, and we're reminded each time we watch the news or talk to a tourist from down south what it was like.

I personally think the economy is/was based too much on the timber industry and anytime the feds "regulate" the industry jobs are usually lost. Out town still has a mill/processing plant that makes wood products, but isn't as large a contributer to the economy as it once was.

I was diagnosed with cancer a few months after I got here and the only bad thing is treatment wasn't available here in my small town; I had to go to Medford (3+ hrs drive) and Coos Bay (2 1/2 hrs drive) for treatment but both hospitals and treatment facilities were well known for their excellent treatment and modern/state of the art facilities. Besides the drive up the coast is beautiful; rugged coastline and bizillions of trees!

I love Oregon and ain't going anywhere and I'm getting a bit selfish about new folks in my home town; Welcome to Oregon, now Go Home!:kidding:

[mdi]

A real job is providing a good or service to people that have a need or desire for that item or service. It is not some made up position that people have no choice but to pay for and is not essential.

As far as a pay scale is concerned, adults with families should find the skills and job to care for those who they are responsible for and live within their means. So, if a guy can live off minimum wage, great. If not, get some improvement.

I pay at the pump and have for years and years. It's standard practice...everywhere. I can't remember the last time I pumped gas and got wet either...since service stations in the modern world are all covered. All this and I don't have to pay a gas jockey.

A solution that would make us both happy; stay away from Oregon! About getting wet when pumping gas; it don't rain in Vegas enough to wet the sand let alone the citizens. Obviously paying at the pump is far from standard, even in L.A. there are many, many pay before you pump stations that have a little bullet proof glass booth where you pay, you should look around outside of Nevada. If you missed it; the "gas jockeys" aren't paid by the state. They have jobs at gas stations, nothing to do with welfare. As for low paying entry level jobs, how many bus boys and diswashers work in the casinos? Is that a career, middle class job? Think not. You obviously like Vegas and don't like Oregon, I dislike Vegas (Hot, dry, cheap neon, if you don't have a pocket of money you're not wanted) and love Oregon. So, we should both stay where we are or shut up![smilie=l:

[Silver Hand]

If you could live any where in the state where would live. ie: retiring there, my wife had thought it would be a nice place to live. She has some internet fiends that live in different parts of the state and love it. We have driven through both the west side and the east side and the vegetation on the west side impressed her a lot. She grew up in southern CO. It would be nice to get out off the big city and to LIVE some place where you could plink a little and do some fishing and camping. Not have GO some place to do stuff. She would like to get away from the high elevation , she can not go up in the hill's any more , it messes with her migrain's and a low front here will nail her, it is like going up three or four thousand feet.

For heck sake -- Don't Move to Oregon -- There are to many Low life's pumping gas.
And it is to over crowded and it rains all the time.
Besides it was a lot better when I moved here packing myself two kids and the same wife I have now in the front seat of a 1972 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up back in 1974. Some 3,000 miles from the nearest friend or family. What a place to have spent my life. You cant Imagine the hunting and fishing Back in those days.