PP Solution for 8.15x46r

[mdevlin53]

So I have been looking for a Boolit for my 8.1x46r and I have some that I got from BACO and they work fine but they are pricey. The mold is on backorder and pricey as well. So while I was searching for an alternative I read a thread about paper patching up a .309 Boolit. Now I have a .309 mold albeit a lee but I figured I would give it a shot. The .309 is just slightly over bore. I went to the shop with a couple sheets of notebook paper and set up a board to cut on. Not being in production mode I laid out a 60 deg line and cut one end of a 1” strip with the angle, wrapped and marked the patch and then laid out a second line and cut my first patch. I rolled it on and twisted the end and it looked good for a first try. It ended up at .322 I needed maybe .318 as my groove is right at .316. Perhaps a lighter paper will do the trick. I tried a couple more just to see if the first was a fluke. Tried one wet but the paper started to slough off little rolls so I just set it down. These are just a tad too big to fit into the un-sized fired case. Now I just need to find the right paper and something to lube them with and I will see how they shoot.

I guess this is my question, is it just that simple? I know it probably takes a good long while to get it perfect and so each one is not a 20 minute affair but if I did it right then this could be the best solution to expensive store bought Boolits
Second question should i lube the bullet before PP is applied wit SPG or Alox?
Third question how do you determine how far up the bullet to patch just to the place where it is still straight sided or should it extend onto the curved part of the bullet nose?
Thanks in advance for any comments and answers.

[303Guy]

I would say no lube on the naked boolit. I patch right to the beginning of the ogive or just a tad over. I've found that fairly soft alloy bumps up quite considerable on the nose so depending on alloy hardness. Perhaps go over the ogive a millimetre or two. I do tail-less patches or at least, a very short tail that doesn't need twisting. Not sure if that's good or bad but it seems good. It's probably better for dry wrapping which is what I do. But don't change how you've started just yet. Just set the wrap a little forward of the ogive and give it a go. You can thin down the patch a little by running the wet patched boolit between a hard surface and one of those flexi-plastic rulers. The also stretches the wet patch over the boolit and closes the gap. Even using your finger can do it and that has the advantage of ironing the patch into the boolit grooves.

[303Guy]

Oh, just a cautioning - paper patching is addictive! :mrgreen:

Too late! Keep us posted on your results. It's fun for us too!:drinks:

[Nobade]

That notebook paper is pretty springy so you could size it down to .318" in a Lee type push through die.

I like to lube the patches with vaseline/beeswax mix. It also makes good lip balm.

The 8.15x46 operates at fairly low pressures, so flimsy paper like you are using should work fine. Make sure it's seated to jam into the rifling a bit and play with powder charges and I bet you'll have good results. And as 303 guy says, it is sure addictive!

BTW, there was a half decent article in Rifle magazine a few months ago about shooting an Aydt with paper patched boolits. Looking at how he wrapped them I don't believe his accuracy claims, but it's an interesting read anyhow.

[303Guy]

Ummm...... I have no idea what a 8.1x46r is. Any chance of photo's? Lot's of photo's - Please?

[mdevlin53]

an 8.15x46r is a cartridge that is similar to the 32-40. Its a tad longer than a 30-30 case but necked down to .316. This old german cartridge had a lot of range in diameter some at .316 and some as much as .320+. I have been using a stop ring bullet from BACO but as i said the cost you.
I went around the house with my calipers yesterday and measured every pad of paper i oculd find all of them were at least the same as the notebook paper and some much heavier (myu wife thinks i am nuts). I will stop at the office depot tonight and see if i can find some onion skin or tracing paper.

First you guys got me casting and now paper patching what next breech seating?

[pdawg_shooter]

Fun, aint it! I started patching in the 70s to get a .318 bore Mauser back into the game fields. .308 bullets rolled under a mill bastard file and patched up with 16# paper. Shot great!

[mdevlin53]

So i tried it a few more times rolled the bullet on a file and it seemed to roll a bit tighter. Still need to get a paper that is at .002 instead of .003 to get the final demention correct. It should be here later this week.
Someone mentioned car wax as a lube is that the liquid or the paste or does it make a difference.

I need to experiment with clipping the tails as if i get to close it seems to unwind.

Tomorrow i plan on casting up some new bullets and get ready for the paper deliveryhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_2374350047c3a09090.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5918)

[pdawg_shooter]

Most anything will work. I prefer BAC or JPW myself.

[mdevlin53]

Ok so here is one more question. I have read a lot about weather or not you need to use a gas check on a bullet designed for one and it seems the answer is yes. Does that still apply if you intend to paper patch. My thought is yes put it on the bullet was designed that way so use it.
Opinions

[Nobade]

No need for the gas check when you paper patch.

[303Guy]

No need for a gas check but maybe it will protect the base with soft alloy for better accuracy? I don't know if using a gas check with patched is better than the same boolit without a check. I have a GC mold and one day I'm going to try it without a check) and see what happens. Well, I tried it in the early days of patching but only in my two-groove which has a bore too rough for cast or PP (scary accurate with j-words though).

[Nobade]

I tried it some early on, and didn't see any improvement. Any more, I figure if I'm going to use a gas check I'll just shoot the boolit naked with lube. If paper patching, just leave the check off and save the 3.5 cents/shot.

[pdawg_shooter]

I also tried it, no difference in accuracy. However the gas check shank on the bullet makes it a little easier to twist the tail without tearing the patch and makes it a bit easier to seat the bullet in the case. Save your check money for powder and primers.

[mdevlin53]

So there is a small consensus here for if PP no GC. I think i will try some of each first time out. I had to buy a 1000 checks so using a couple in a trial won't hurt too bad. like the guy says "Its all conjecture til you pull the trigger"

[flounderman]

one thing you will see with paper patch is that it will shine the barrel like a mirror. I'm playing with .338 cast patched up for a 348 and it works.

[pdawg_shooter]

10-4 on the shine. I bought a #4 Mk II that had bad reamer marks on the top of the lands. 200 or so paper patched bullets WITHOUT lube on the patch and it look as good as any custom barrel makers product.

[mdevlin53]

so my onionskin paper came today and it works well but with it, the .309 bullet only come up to .316. .316 is the groove diameter so it about .002 small. I have three options (or maybe 4)
Buy a .312 mold and use the onionskin.
buy a sizer die at .314 and open it up to .318 and size down the pp bullets that go to .322 with notebook paper
find some paper that mics up at .002
try shooting the pp bullets at .316

i guess this is the part i enjoy the most, trying to find the soultion and then shooting the results.

[303Guy]

so my onionskin paper came today and it works well Well, if it works then maybe just shoot it. On the other hand of course there is the fun factor in trying different stuff.

On the right size die - I've invented an adjustable sizer. I should pursue that idea. :roll:

[mdevlin53]

"On the right size die - I've invented an adjustable sizer."

Now i would love to hear about this adjustable die

[303Guy]

It's actually a roller system with three rollers, two at the bottom to support the boolit and one on top that presses down as the rollers are driven. One of the rollers would have a flange at each end to keep the boolit in place and each would have the inverse profile of the boolit. Sounds easy but will take a little bit of engineering but no rocket science.

[mdevlin53]

Today i was able to see the results of my experiment to PP a .309 Boolit to .318. I shot th weights 150 and 170 both patched from.309 to .318. I was only shooting at 25 yards but at first glance i thingk this will work just fine. still getting used to the double set trigger and a couple wide shots were due to me and not the gun or cartridges. I am pleased http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_23743503bce41a73d7.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6458)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_23743503bce6ce58c7.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6459)