pedersoli 45-110 quigley nightmare

[iron mike]

got a quigley,w/the seole tang sight, the taps on the tang for mounting the sight looked off center, so sent it to a gunsmith for warrantee work, month late i get it back,the is still a major problem, i now realize that the reciever is cast crooked, and the tang is so far to the east that one could mever shoot accuratley using a tang sight, all of the windage adjustment will not fix it, emailed pedersoli and am waiting for their cure.....any body have any experience here with a pedersoli lemon?

[Tatume]

Hi Mike,

Please keep us informed with your dealings with Pedersoli. Those are expensive guns and they should take good care of it for you. I'll look forward to hearing about a happy outcome.

Take care, Tom

[iron mike]

i will, they've informed their production manager of the problem,i certainly hope they respond with action and no lip service, as in reality, i'm out a lot of time and trouble so far, an expensive gun, hundreds of dollars for brass and reloading settups, and a warranty gunsmith that should have picked up on the problem at first glance,instead of performing a meaningless(to me anyway) repair.my fear is that this is going to turn into a cya game with all those who dropped the ball,far as i'm concerned i see that everyone dropped the ball, pedersoli let the gun ship, cabella sold the gun, the gunsmith missed the mark,and so on..it is a beautiful gun for sure, but it is also a useless one. i'd like a new one, this ones a lemon.

[hickstick_10]

Those tang sight bases often require shimming or milling of the sight base, its nothing new with the pedersolis.

Very rarely can you slap them on and call it good, although shilohs and MVA sights seem to fit together very often with no adjustment. Often with sharps repros and tang sights, you get precisely what you pay for.

Do you have a picture of this crooked receiver?

What type/brand of tang sight are you using?

How far out of square is the rear sight, in relation to the front sight bubble?

Is this your first time playing with these single shots?

[waksupi]

It's not just new ones, I have seen originals that were real crooked.

[HeavyMetal]

Check with Buckshot I belive he had a huge fight over 38 55 barrel on the same make

He may have a short cut avialable for you.

[montana_charlie]

Check with Buckshot I belive he had a huge fight over 38 55 barrel on the same make.
Buckshot's problem was a Uberti hiwall with a cruddy barrel.

CM

[iron mike]

the tang is a pedersoli seole long distance model, the sights are perpendicular to eachother, but they are also extemely parralell, there is no room to improve the setup,it is simply a lemon..i can shoot off the barrel sights, but that's not what i bought into when i purchased this gun.

[montana_charlie]

got a quigley,w/the seole tang sight,
Can you pick your sight out on this page? http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-accessori.asp/l_en/idt_9/accessories-creedmoors.html

the taps on the tang for mounting the sight looked off center, so sent it to a gunsmith for warrantee work,
What is the name of the gunsmith?

i now realize that the reciever is cast crooked,
I think Shiloh is the only maker using cast receivers.

the tang is so far to the east that one could mever shoot accuratley using a tang sight,
If you mean that the tang points off to the right of center, it would never have fit into the machine inletting of the buttstock.

any body have any experience here with a pedersoli lemon?
Is this your first experience with a Sharps rifle?

[oldracer]

I read through the posts and did not see if you had shot the gun? If you did, what kind of groups did it get and if you have not I would suggest giving it a try to see what it does. The reason I say this is due to an original Rolling block action that has a Badger barrel and home made stocks that I bought a couple of years ago. I did check the tang sight and it is sort of vertical but everything else on the gun just looks strange. Even the barrel looks like it has a curve in it, the butt stock bends off to the right and the front globe is about half out of the dovetail! BUT it shoots less than 1 inch groups at 100 yds and less than 2 inch groups at 200 yds from a rest sooooo I have left it alone! I was initially worried about "looks" but decided how it shoots is more important.

[iron mike]

it's the silhoette long range creedmoore sight,i'll leave the gunsmiths name out of it, he didn't build the gun,the stock is fitted quite well in the reciever,so no point in arguing what could not have happened, the reciever tang is as crooked as all gettout,it's a lemon,yes i've shot it, it is not suitable for shooting, it's that bad..their recievers are cast,...the reciever should have been rejected from the production line.. period..

[Red River Rick]

Did you buy this gun new, or used? If it's used, what year was it made?

Something don't sound right. Has the rifle been dropped at some pont, bending the buttstock and tang sideways?

RRR

[montana_charlie]

i'll leave the gunsmiths name out of it, he didn't build the gun,
Lee Shaver is the Pedersoli gunsmith for warranty work, and everybody knows it.
Who did you send your rifle to?

CM

[iron mike]

told you, the smith has nothin to do with it,he cant fix what should have been rejected from the production line, and you cant drop a gun and do something like this, the smith missed the problem, ain't his fault, it is the production managers fault at the factory,that's where the mess got out, there ain't a smith in the world that could fix this gun. my pictures are to big to post so i don't know how to show you, all got here is words.how do you post big pictures?

[iron mike]

see if this works

[iron mike]

here's another

[iron mike]

try again

[iron mike]

see how far over everything is, the left part of the tower is about where center should be,it's off the widage adjustment scale by a long way.

[John Boy]

I don't see any shims under the vernier base but I do see that the tang was tapped off center to the right. Tang is crooked? I doubt it

[Longwood]

told you, the smith has nothin to do with it,he cant fix what should have been rejected from the production line, and you cant drop a gun and do something like this, the smith missed the problem, ain't his fault, it is the production managers fault at the factory,that's where the mess got out, there ain't a smith in the world that could fix this gun. my pictures are to big to post so i don't know how to show you, all got here is words.how do you post big pictures?

It can be repaired.
Any good smith can weld up the holes that were drilled and tapped wrong and redo them.

[Don McDowell]

Shiloh's and C Sharps don't look quite so expensive now do they?

[iron mike]

that was already done, the tang is crooked, off center, in the wrong place,west of memphis!.i'm having a hard time posting pictures on this site, so you aren't getting the right view ahrgggg!

[hightime]

Needed shims on one side to get them true. I use brass sheets folded and hammered then slip them under the low side. Actually the Quigley is the only one that didn't need a shim out of five rifles.

Owen

[waksupi]

What happens to some actions, is that they warp when they are color case hardened. Not unusual at all. That is why people like Turnbull will color single shot actions, but not bolt actions. A single shot will still function okay, a bolt action, not necessarily.

[Don McDowell]

If the sight runs pretty much parallel with the bore, it doesn't look to be so far off that simply zeroing the tang sight for windage, and then moving the front sight to obtain mechanical zero would throw things to bad.

[iron mike]

the picture doesn't do it justice,the front sight would fall out if you adjusted it enough and the rear sight would be 35 minutes left,,, pretty poor,,,,

[jblee10]

Did you say the holes were welded up and redone? I wonder if the smith drilled the holes centerline to the bore? If they are centerline, but leaning to the right it's a tough one. Hard to deal with and make it look good. I would probably rather have the tang drilled dead center, and adjust the sight to the right. It's hard to say what is better.

[Longwood]

If I shimmed it, i would use a narrow piece of shim on each end and JB weld with a good release agent under the sight.
After the JB weld is set, remove the shims and fill the spots where they were.
A little lamp black (soot) in the JB weld would make it look better.

[jblee10]

What do the tangs look like without the wood on it? And how does the wood look on the tangs? Could they be "adjusted", welded and redrilled? And the wood refitted? Do you see what I'm getting at? Some tang warping during manufactor. But if it is new, I would look at the warranty first.

[oldracer]

Some questions: if you hold the gun solid with the top of the barrel level, is the front globe level? Is the top of the barrel level and both sides of the breech vertical? Is the side rail of the tang sight vertical and/or the top level when barrel level? If the tang sight is lowered forward, does a line through it run up the center of the barrel or is it off to one side irrespective of where the eye piece is or the tang wind adjustment is parallel to the barrel? Or does the line up the center of the tang not run parallel to the barrel center?

I would suggest trying the through bolt of the receiver that is visible in your picture to hold the rear of the tang down and see what happens. That is what we did with my Rolling Block as the tang holes were drilled off to one side and even shimming the tang base did not help. A different screw might be required and then after lining everything up, redrill the front tang screw with an accurate drill press.

[Cap'n Morgan]

It's crooked alright! I wouldn't mess with the tang, but either machine/file the shoe to match the tang or make an asymmetric shim to fit under the shoe. Any gunsmith worth his salt should be able to fix it.

[Boz330]

Was the sight factory drilled and factory mounted? If so they should take care of it. If it was done by a smith he should. In the pictures it just looks like the sight needs to be plumbed up. That has to be done on any tang sight. My Godson's Pedersoli was the only one I have ever put a tang sight on that didn't need adjustment. Some of thee sights are designed with a concave on the bottom so you can file one side or the other to plumb the sight.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

the picture doesn't do it justice,the front sight would fall out if you adjusted it enough and the rear sight would be 35 minutes left,,, pretty poor,,,,
Don't be to sure, it takes very little adjustment on the front sight to make a lot of difference.
Plus you could always install a windage adjustable front and get a mechanical zero with it.
Or simply take the rifle to a gunsmith , not a gun parts changer, and have the holes plugged, and then drilled and tapped and the rear sight plumbed properly...
All the while remembering all the advise you recieved about how much better buy the Pedersoli was than one of the Montana built guns.:veryconfu

[iron mike]

at these prices, it seems more like an expensive gun kit for wankers doesn't it?

[Longwood]

All the while remembering all the advise you recieved about how much better buy the Pedersoli was than one of the Montana built guns.:veryconfu

Are you assuming that the problem is the manufacturers fault?
They use jigs to drill holes so I have a hunch the problem with this rifle was caused by someone after it left the factory.
Because of the length of tang sights, the process of mounting a sight is a lot more difficult to do well than it appears. Getting them straight up and down and also to fold back exactly on the centerline is not simple and is very easy to get a little bit off. A tiny error gets multiplied numerous times because of the tall/long sight.
A photo taken from the center line of the gun would be very helpful in seeing where the problem is.

[Don McDowell]

Longwood , no those rifles are drilled at the factory, the sights are made in the same factory, you figure it out.....

[montana_charlie]

Your use of the terms 'tang' and 'tower' are proving to be a problem.
Half of the time, when you say 'tang' it seems you are referring to the 'sight'. Other times it seems to be the rear projection of the receiver ... that actual tang embedded in the wood.
And when you say 'tower' it's unclear what you mean.
Is that the 'base' of the sight?

The 'base' is screwed to the 'tang' of the receiver, and the 'staff' is the tall part of the sight.



Longwood said, "It can be repaired. Any good smith can weld up the holes that were drilled and tapped wrong and redo them."

Is that the statement you responded to when you said, "that was already done, the tang is crooked, off center, in the wrong place,west of memphis!."

If we are getting the correct understanding, that means the tang on the rifle had holes drilled in the wrong place, so you sent it to a gunsmith who welded them shut and redrilled the holes ... again in the wrong place.

And ... we are to believe that Lee Shaver, a well-known gunsmith with a good reputation, did this kind of shoddy work.

CM

[iron mike]

called the beauchamps today, sent them an email and within an hour had a request from pedersoli for a photo of the gun with the tang site removed and a cleaning rod inserted through the muzzle and extending over the reciever tang, that should get a perspective on things for them to remedy the problem, probably a new gun... i'll keep you posted, by the way the recievers are forged and machined, not cast.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

That last picture is worth a thousand words.

[Longwood]

That photo sure does make a statement.
It looks to me like the action is crooked not the tang.
Or,,, the front of the action may be drilled and faced crooked.
The tang looks to be straight with the rear portion of the action so,,,,
I bet you get new rifle.

[hightime]

I can't see how it could be that crooked. There has to be a gap on the left side somewhere.
New gun for sure.

Owen

[iron mike]

well, thanks for puttin up with my delema guy's, all of your attention is greatly recieved,like the man said , a picture is worth a thousand words, there you have it..i'do believe in the pedersoli gun, i am a bit taken back as to how this one got past everybody...but it is human to make error, so,i'll keep you posted on the cure.

[waksupi]

After seeing the picture, I would say they had to be aware of it at the factory. For that much off set, a standard stock pattern would not have fit the action properly, without some extra hand work. When that happens at a gun manufacturer, it is immediately known.

Hey! Guiseppi! Look ata disa picea crappola!

[iron mike]

beats me.

[Plinkster]

Nah it's pretty easy to see that happening if the action gets machined in 2 or more different fixtures. How it made it out the door with a defect like that is amazing. But baffling to me is that the 'smith didn't catch either. I guess it just goes to show the extent to which assumption can blind a person. On the other hand if the sight lined up and it shot well would you have noticed or cared? The real let down I think is the time of yours that was eaten by this debacle. I hope Pedersoli makes it right with you and hopefully the new gun has even better wood!

[hightime]

I had issue with a Uberti, same company, owned by Beretta, I think. It took a year but I did get a new rifle.

Owen

[iron mike]

plinkster, those are my sentiments exactly, well said.. mike

[EDG]

>>>Nah it's pretty easy to see that happening if the action gets machined in 2 or more different fixtures.<<<

These types of probablems can be really bad for a manufacturing company. I bought a used rifle made by a well known and loved American company. It would not group into a 2 foot square with any ammo. The barrel had two tight spots one about .001 the other about .0015. It took a while for me to find this. I returned the like new but 15 year old "used" rifle to that company and they put a new barrel on it for no charge.
The point I was making above is this rifle could have been resold or traded around forever giving that company a bad name with many people for one bad barrel.
If I were the production/manufacturing engineer at any company I would want a item back immediately to determine what is causing the problem. That will permit a permanent fix so that it can never occur again.

[bigted]

edge...i completely agree with your post...i also traded into a well known american company's rifle in 45-120. it had the action valley where the rounds are loaded into the breech that wasnt ground properly to allow the long cartridge to chamber without rubbing very tightly on this valley.

this rifle is a older model that has probably been thru numerous hands and the dissatisfaction was just passed on to new owners with no body calling the factory or contacting them concerning this oversight.

i ... at first was very dissapointed with this long awaited rifle and had very poor consideration of this company rite up to the point of ...on the advise of several others that i consider friends...called the company and also e-mailed them photos of the missed grinding area.

the company promptly had the president of the company call me personally and requested the rifle to be returned for the repair that was needed for the correction of this foo-bar.

upon returning this rifle to the company they...on my request... shortrned the barrel...re-cut the dovetail...re-drilled the scope holes...re-blued the barrel...and of coarse... re-ground the reciever...re-cased the action...installed new front and wrist mounted sights that i purchased...all this for just returning the rifle to them to allow them to "make it rite".

ill be the first to relay the name of this honerable company to you and heartilly recomend them to anyone who wants a statement of modest perfection in action on an everyday basis.

SHILOH RIFLE COMPANY !!!!! a proud montana manufacturing company.

123

[Longwood]

I have sent three different guns back to three different manufacturers.
Each time, I was extremely pleased with what was returned to me, and never was charged a dime.
I even got a free trigger job a high polish finish and super dark blue job from Dan Wesson and all that was wrong with the gun was the nut on the barrel had stripped its threads. I thought it was odd that they needed the gun back for a barrel nut but was sure glad I sent it back.
When my Thompson Contender popped open (yeah max loads) they gave me a brand new frame. They gave two frames to a shooting friend.
I think the guys that work in the returns dept know a lot more about how the guns should work and when they see that a owner is expecting a bit higher quality than many people would, they are happy to give it to them.
Send them back if you have problems with guns,, you will more likely than not be very glad you did.

[omgb]

What I liked (sarcasm on) is all of the backhanded shots at Pedersoli and the heavy handed promotion of Shiloh. Accuracy wise, I seriously doubt if the average or even much better than average Joe could shoot a Shiloh better than a Pedersoli. Really, it's pure hubris to claim otherwise. Is the Shiloh a better finished gun? No argument there and it had better be too considering the custom nature of Shilohs. The guy posted a problem with a very atypical Pedersoli and along with some helpful speculation he gets mocked for buying a non-Shiloh. Some people just can't help being nasty.

R Talley

[iron mike]

i think the pedersoli gun is a fine gun, and i think it is just as good as it can get as far as it's ability to shoot long range accurately,and i intend to shoot it as soon as it is shootable,this bird is one in a million, the only thing wrong is that it got out of the factory and into my hands,, slim odds,but it could happen to anyone from any mfg'r. the human condition allows us all to miss,so the flip side is that it allows us to get it right,, and i'm sure it will be made right,it's my broken plans that bothered me more than the gun,i was fixed to do some 1000 and 1200 yard shooting in death valley,and now ,that's on hold.....i'll keep you posted... mike

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I'll just stick with Shiloh, and CPA. The past few years I have just gotten actions from custom builders and had my gunsmith here build single shot rifles for me.

Too many people had a look at this rifle, starting with the gentleman who had to proof fire it before it left the factory to suit me.

Rich
Sua Sponte

[dave roelle]

Betcha a new line is added to the Quality Protocals in northern Italy

[leadman]

That rifle would probably fit me very well being left handed. Don't know about the sights though.
In 1974 I bought a CVA Kentucky rifle kit. After finishing it and trying to sight it in I finally called the company about a problem similar to the OP. I had to drive the sights to the opposite sides and still couldn't hit the target at 50 yards.
The problem was the barrel was drilled thru the blank crooked. CVA test fired a barrel and sent it to me. Was very accurate and I was happy.

[iron mike]

wel ,the secratary at pedersoli told me she' sending the photo to lee shaver for evaluation, we'll see what that means,being run around here.. mike cregan

[bigted]

What I liked (sarcasm on) is all of the backhanded shots at Pedersoli and the heavy handed promotion of Shiloh. Accuracy wise, I seriously doubt if the average or even much better than average Joe could shoot a Shiloh better than a Pedersoli. Really, it's pure hubris to claim otherwise. Is the Shiloh a better finished gun? No argument there and it had better be too considering the custom nature of Shilohs. The guy posted a problem with a very atypical Pedersoli and along with some helpful speculation he gets mocked for buying a non-Shiloh. Some people just can't help being nasty.

R Talley


i debated on the reply to this post and will observe some protocall and wisdom with my reply...

if you were refering to my posting as being "backhanded" or to be "heavyhanded" then i resent the heck outta your sour reply to my inocent posting about my experience with a company that stood behind their product like i doubt many others would have! my intention was and is to do two things with my post...1- to encourage the op to pursue his absolutly correct intention in bringing it to the builders attention in a fasion that is absolute in its authentication ... and 2- to re-asure the op as to the capability of ANY company to make mistakes!

if on the other hand you were somehow refering to someone elses posting then i opoligize for getting my nose in a roar! it seemd like your posting was directed to me and as i ALSO own...[and proudly too]...a fine uberti longrange sharps '74'. that rifle is chambered in a 45 x 2.1 inch [45-70] round. it shoots and functions as well as my 120 does so i feel qualified in my statement to stand as is and for the reasons stated.

im looking forward to hearing the natural outcome of this comedy of errors from so many in the lineup of folks that should have cought this giant screw up.

ill stand down off my sheet of paper now and try to keep my dander from fluffing again!:killingpc...[smilie=b:...:holysheep.......:groner:

[Don McDowell]

Ted I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other.
This is 5 days in now and the best the owner has got was a "we want to see the picture" from a secratary?

[montana_charlie]

wel ,the secratary at pedersoli told me she' sending the photo to lee shaver for evaluation, we'll see what that means,being run around here.. mike cregan
Shaver has already had this gun in his hands, right?

CM

[omgb]

There is one clear consumer advantage that outfits like Shiloh offer, they are domestic
and therefore fairly easy to do warranty business with. I have a couple of Berettas and an AYA shotgun. Getting warranty work done on any of these is a nightmare. I also have some Rugers. Warranty work on these is super simple...no questions asked and super fast service. Still, there's always some Adam Henry who can't resist telling me how my Rugers are inferior clunkers compared to his Blazer, Lujic, Perazzi, whatever. The Germans have a word to describe this kind of put down. They call it "shadenfreude". It means it's not enough that you should succeed, unless your friends also fail.

Shiloh makes a great gun...they are works of art and the price reflects this. For many guys though, a Shiloh represents a couple months salary and is just too expensive to contemplate. That's where Pedersoli comes in. Their mass produced guns are affordable to the average family man. Still, they are highly accurate and very well made. They are not "second best" but rather an affordable alternative to a custom or similar custom gun. No man who owns one should ever be made to feel bad for doing so.

To tell a guy that he shouldn't have gone the cheaper rout is mean minded. I stand by that little bit of social etiquette. I wish we all did. I may think my wife is prettier than yours but I'll be danged if I ever say so outloud. You love her, that's enough for me.

[Don McDowell]

I was in the Sidney Cabela's store today, they had a Pedersoli, the price was 1999.90$, basic price on a shiloh #3 is 1800, and the hartford (if the tulip on the barrel is important to you) is 2,022. So for 200$ less or 22.10 more a Shiloh could be had for the price of a Pedersoli.....

[hightime]

I remember when $200 meant nothing to me. Ah to return to that thinking again. I havn't seen a Shiloh that looked a smigin better than my Ped. or shot better either.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Yup and why folks would choose to spend the 200$ more for a pedersoli is beyond me.
You have a lot of experience with Shiloh rifles Owen?

[montana_charlie]

they had a Pedersoli, the price was 1999.90$, .....
You forgot to mention which model that Pedersoli was ...

CM

[Don McDowell]

It had a pewter nose cap and pressed checkering, other than that I haven't a clue, nor care.....

[montana_charlie]

It had a pewter nose cap and pressed checkering, other than that I haven't a clue, nor care.....
But you made mention of 'tulips'. Did it have a Hartford collar?

CM

[Don McDowell]

Looked as tho it might have had. Didn't pay that much attention, but that price tag sure jumped straight out at a fella, just like the ones listed on Dixie's web page.
Not quite sure where this Pedersoli being cheaper than a Shiloh stuff is coming from.... Some cases the Pedersoli is actually higher than a Shiloh, and of course we're straying along ways away from the original post here. And the fact that after a month the rifles owner still doesn't have an answer to have his Pedersoli fixed, yet there's an example given in this thread of a 3rd or 4th generation owner of a Shiloh had a problem with a rifle that got out of the factory and within about the same amount of time as the OP has spent here, the rifle was returned,fixed and sent back to it's present owner......

[montana_charlie]

Not quite sure where this Pedersoli being cheaper than a Shiloh stuff is coming from....
It's an age old argument that always goes the same direction.
Compare a Pedersoli Quigley with a Shiloh Business Rifle and claim that Pedersoli guns are as expensive as Shilohs.

The Cabela's Pedersoli that most resembles a Business Rifle is priced at $1199.00.
A #3 Sporter look-a-like is available from Dixie (since you mentioned Dixie) for $1050.00.

The Shiloh model that compares with that Cabela's $1999.00 Pedersoli is their Quigley at $3298.00
But, you already knew that.


and of course we're straying along ways away from the original post here.
I guess that means you're sorry you started it ...


CM

[hightime]

I guess the side issue is , it isn't helpful at all to'' say you should have bought'' Or even '' my gun is better that yours'' How does that help anyone? When we buy, we try to make a good decision. The truth is Don, I'm sure Shiloh is a better rifle than mine. When I bought it I had never even heard of Shiloh. I'm real happy with my gun and the way it shoots. Thank goodness. I'd hate to go though the torment of wishing for a Shiloh each and every day. All's well in my camp.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Well Owen you're the one that said your pedersoli was better finished than a shiloh, and you're the one that said your pedersoli would out shoot a shiloh. I simply asked as to your experience with a shiloh so that a person could gauge your statement...

[Don McDowell]

Maxwell what Pedersoli is calling their long range model which is listed on Dixie's sight at something over 2200 is comarable to a #1 or roughrider which are listed at 1902..
Point being all along that no matter what the price Pedersoli's warranty adjustments have always been somewhat lacking when compared to either of the Montana built guns. And for the last several years the price difference between the Italians and the Montana built guns has not been that great, and now we're seeing Pedersoli's actually priced higher than C Sharps or Shiloh....
And there is no comparison to the Quigley's made by Pedersoli to the real Quigley by Shiloh. Yup the Shiloh is higher, but he type of finish on the Shiloh , the sights and the gold enlayed engraving are not available on the Pedersoli.....
And if the Pedersoli breaks... Well that's what this thread was all about in the first place....

[hightime]

I didn't say what you said I did. And you're not going to make him through his gun away and buy a Shiloh. Nor will I. If you can help him then help him.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Not EVEN trying to make him throw his gun away. Matter of fact you got back and read and you'll see where I advised him to install a windguage front sight and go shoot the rifle....

[iron mike]

ok fellas,calm down,i'm the one who's entitled to gripe,....lee shaver contacted me visa vi pedersoli and i sent him a picture of the gun with a bushing holding a cleaning rod perfectly centered over the reciever, he agrees there's a problem and needs the gun to take apart and document,sound policy considering all,so,i'mm shipping the gun to him and pedersoli will replace the gun or the reciever and stock i'm told, they'll make it right, now lee has a good reputation, so i recon he has the skills to do the right thing for me whatever that may turn out to be, bottom line is ,they're on it, will ship gun to lee this week! italy spends the month of august on vacation, the whole damn country is worthless for business that month i happen to know so,if montana shut down that month ,only spoke italian,and required import export procedures,i wonder would like what gun better?lol thanks for all your advice and input, i'll keep you posted. mike

[montana_charlie]

Maxwell what Pedersoli is calling their long range model which is listed on Dixie's sight at something over 2200 is comarable to a #1 or roughrider which are listed at 1902..
Folks can look at the Dixie webpage and decipher it for themselves, but the rifle priced above $2200 is a French Grey receiver fully engraved with a pattern similar to Shiloh's Pattern #3 With Portrait.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Pedersoli+1874

I bet Shiloh wants $1902 for the engraving alone.

CM

[hightime]

Good news Iron Mike. I'll glad for you.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Iron Mike in the beginning you said you sent that rifle to a gunsmith for warranty work, but you never did answer who that gunsmith was.. So now the Shaver is handling it hows about you spill the beans on the first guy? Might save someone else a headache later on.

[bigted]

i agree with don here ...id like a name to log away that sent a rifle so misshapen back to a custemer and say its good to go. i live in alaska where sometimes its better to send a gun outta state for the needed / wanted smith work soooo...who be the smuck??

[EDG]

>>>And there is no comparison to the Quigley's made by Pedersoli to the real Quigley by Shiloh<<<
The Pedersoli is know to compare well or exceed the accuracy of the Shilohs.
So far as I know no Pedersolis were never made with that inch long throat that reduces the rifle's accuracy and its resale value. You can't say that about Shiloh.

[Don McDowell]

EDG yes you can say that about the Pedersoli, that's why in cooperation with Victory moulds they came up with a bullet to try and compete with the other rifles on the market.
Shiloh has dropped the long throat thought to be necessary for the paper patch bullets decades ago......
If you would kindly point to match scores whereby the shooters of Pedersoli rifles are winning against shiloh's and C sharps, kindly post such to validate your claim.

[giz189]

It is a shame some folks can't be happy with what other folks own. If it worries some so much, maybe they should just buy iron mike a 'real' shiloh. I mean if they are that concerned with what someone else has.

[bigted]

interesting that the op isnt in the middle ...[or anyplace close]... to this argument.

i congratulate you ironmike that the company is going to...or sounds like they are anyway...take care of your rotten draw of a terribly misshapen rifle. im looking forward to reading all about your success story about the way pedrosoli came thru for you. also how the new rifle shoots both at short range and long.

dont be discouraged by this friendly banter...it happens occasionally and will blow over soon...meanwhile keep us posted on your success and remember that there is a huge amount of usfull info at your fingertips just for the asking. im glad you didnt take it personally about nobody understanding the complete rediculous irrational way that rifle was sent out of a perfectly good factory...unless it got mixed up with somebodys brand of a joke...which if so i bet some heads will roll.

[Don McDowell]

It is a shame some folks can't be happy with what other folks own. If it worries some so much, maybe they should just buy iron mike a 'real' shiloh. I mean if they are that concerned with what someone else has.

Don't read to much into something here friend.
I am tickled to death Iron Mike even owns a rifle. I am saddened tho by the runaround he has reported here trying to get what is a fairly obvious factory defect fixed or at least an adjustment made. And am simply pointing out to others who may be interested in doing a little comparison shopping that the prices on a present day Pedersoli and either a Shiloh or C Sharps are not that much different and in fact we have shown here that a both companies will sell a highquality rifle cheaper than a Pedersoli....(and if something does get out the door of either MT. place the fix is a telephone call and a trip to the local shipping desk away)
And I still say in the end the OP probably should of just put a windage adjustable front sight on, got a mechanical zero with it , leaving his tang sight at zero wind, and then proceed from there. He could of been shooting at the long ranges he wanted to shoot at apparently a month ago already....
And the challenge is still there for those that always make the claim that Pederosoli's outshoot the Big Timber guns,,, show us the link to the scores and equipment lists where that happened....

[myfriendis410]

And of course it seems that the shooting and reloading fraternity is full of price-conscious people. I work in a gun store and see this more often than I can count. Mind you; I don't think there is a thing wrong with it and it's fun to pursue your hobby as frugally as possible.

I own a Pedersoli. It was a gift from my best friend when I turned 50, and other than a short firing pin (that I made a replacement for) it has become my favorite rifle. I am gratified by how well it shoots, and for load development using a cast bullet it can't be beat. Too bad I only have a 100 yard range to work with; it would be a hoot to shoot out to several hundred yards.......

[EDG]

Looks like the girls from the Big Timber pep squad are out in force.

1. How do you connect match results to accuracy? mathematically speaking that is
I am not talking about blow hard talk.
I am talking about a direct predictability of match success based solely on the rifle's accuracy.

2. Are you trying to tell everyone here that the ammo and the shooter and the after market sights do not count?

3. What is the magic formula that connects accuracy in a rifle to a clic of Big Timber shooters?

4. Does that mean that if the Big Timber clic switched to Pedersoli's that they would never win again?


I would like to understand the following -
5. What is the technical superiority of the Shiloh rifles that is supposed to make a difference?

6. Name ALL the accuracy features that are present in a Shiloh or C. Sharps rifle that are not present in a Pedersoli.
7. If I started mixing components of the two brands what would I add or subtract to make them equals?

Pedersoli had someone design a mold to work with their rifles.
8. Now you are going to tell me that none of the BT shooters use a custom mold right,
and that Steve Brooks and Paul Jones and other custom molds are a figment of everyone's imagination?
So tell me do all BT shooters use off the shelf molds.


You might read Chuck Yeager's book. You do know Chuck Yeager the shooter don't you?
He flew an F-86 against a Mig-15 and waxed it.
The two pilots swapped planes and he waxed the guy flying the F-86...

About that long throat. They still count. Those rifles are still around and will still give Shiloh a bad name as long as someone tries to shoot them. Most shooters will not know the difference except on the target.
I saw one of those dogs in mint condition at Cabelas a while back. Why would anyone pay a premium for something with a bad barrel - from the factory?

How do you explain the success of the Browning BPCRs against the BT rifles and clic?



EDG yes you can say that about the Pedersoli, that's why in cooperation with Victory moulds they came up with a bullet to try and compete with the other rifles on the market.
Shiloh has dropped the long throat thought to be necessary for the paper patch bullets decades ago......
If you would kindly point to match scores whereby the shooters of Pedersoli rifles are winning against shiloh's and C sharps, kindly post such to validate your claim.

[Don McDowell]

That's sort of what I expected, lots of talk but no walk....

[EDG]

That's sort of what I expected, lots of talk but no walk....

That is what I expected from you and Windy too.
That is the attempt to link match scores and wins directly to accuracy - and the matches are silhouette matches no less where anything that knocks a target down counts. In this form of shooting there is no direct measurement of the rifles accuracy.

[Don McDowell]

Well what about the gong matches and the creedmoor matches EDG? Lots of Shilohs, C Sharps ,Brownings and Winchesters running around the top finishers there, but..... once again here we are none shooting Pedersoli's.....
So here we are again, either proove up your statement that Pedersoli's are more accurate than Shiloh or,shut up as the saying goes.

[hightime]

This guy was broke down on the side of a lonely road. He stared under the hood and couldn't figure it out. Along came a nice car called a Shiloh. Don rolled down his window and said; you should have bought one of these and then drove on.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

I remember when $200 meant nothing to me. Ah to return to that thinking again. I havn't seen a Shiloh that looked a smigin better than my Ped. or shot better either.

Owen

Owen your time might be better spent backing up your claim , than making ******* personal attacks...

[montana_charlie]

I guess we all see through your smokescreens, McDowell.
You'll have a lot more fun playing this game if you do it on the Shiloh site where a particular knot of guys will always agree with you.

Or, do you plan to bring some of them over here to play?

CM

[omgb]

I like my Pedersoli Billy Dixon model. I bought it maybe 10 years ago. At the time, I paid about $1300 for it and then another $150 for the Pedersoli Long Range Soule site set. I originally was going to buy a C Sharps, and then a Shiloh ( I lived in Bozeman for awhile) but, I'm impatient and Dick Trenk was pretty persuasive. So, I called Buffalo Arms and bought my gun. From day one it out-shot me. I've put a lot of lead down that bore and it has never failed me. i don't shoot matches so I don't know how it would stand up. I do know that at the Angeles range I can shoot 3" groups at 200 yards all day and sometimes 2" groups at that range. I also know I can hit the large gong at 1,000 yards at least 3 out of ten tries. I can better that with my scoped 06 but with iron sites, that's really good shooting for me. What kind of group I'm getting at that long range I couldn't say but it can't be too good or I'd get more hits. I like my gun, and it was fairly priced. No, it's not fitted nor finished like a Shiloh and the trigger is not nearly so slop free (Yes, I've shot several C Sharps, Shilohs and a couple of originals) but it's a very good gun. I like it and I don't long for a Shiloh. I have other weaknesses (Parker shotguns for one) But here's the thing, I can't remember when the last time was I told some guy he sould have bought something else because his wasn't as nice as the something else. That kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and my friend got a new bike for Christmas. man he really loved that bike; that is until Leo told him it was a fake Stingray and not as good as a real Stingray. That killed it for him. He never rode it to school again. In high school, a guy once questioned me as to why I went out with so-and-so because she wasn't "hot". I told him because I like her and that's good enough for me. Some guys just have to knock what others have. As I said, "shadenfreude"

[Don McDowell]

I guess we all see through your smokescreens, McDowell.
You'll have a lot more fun playing this game if you do it on the Shiloh site where a particular knot of guys will always agree with you.

Or, do you plan to bring some of them over here to play?

CM
Not unexpected from you Maxwell. Kenny has a thread here on the same subject what you goint to go tell him?

In the meantime we see all these little snipey attacks:coffeecom

[Don McDowell]

I like my Pedersoli Billy Dixon model. I bought it maybe 10 years ago. At the time, I paid about $1300 for it and then another $150 for the Pedersoli Long Range Soule site set. I originally was going to buy a C Sharps, and then a Shiloh ( I lived in Bozeman for awhile) but, I'm impatient and Dick Trenk was pretty persuasive. So, I called Buffalo Arms and bought my gun. From day one it out-shot me. I've put a lot of lead down that bore and it has never failed me. i don't shoot matches so I don't know how it would stand up. I do know that at the Angeles range I can shoot 3" groups at 200 yards all day and sometimes 2" groups at that range. I also know I can hit the large gong at 1,000 yards at least 3 out of ten tries. I can better that with my scoped 06 but with iron sites, that's really good shooting for me. What kind of group I'm getting at that long range I couldn't say but it can't be too good or I'd get more hits. I like my gun, and it was fairly priced. No, it's not fitted nor finished like a Shiloh and the trigger is not nearly so slop free (Yes, I've shot several C Sharps, Shilohs and a couple of originals) but it's a very good gun. I like it and I don't long for a Shiloh. I have other weaknesses (Parker shotguns for one) But here's the thing, I can't remember when the last time was I told some guy he sould have bought something else because his wasn't as nice as the something else. That kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and my friend got a new bike for Christmas. man he really loved that bike; that is until Leo told him it was a fake Stingray and not as good as a real Stingray. That killed it for him. He never rode it to school again. In high school, a guy once questioned me as to why I went out with so-and-so because she wasn't "hot". I told him because I like her and that's good enough for me. Some guys just have to knock what others have. As I said, "shadenfreude"

The only person that made any referance to the Quality of the rifle was Waksupi...
I defy you to turn up anything anywhere where I have said anything derogatory about a Pedersoli rifle.
Simply pointing out the difference in reaction is not a put down.
Not a one of you that are making these direct and backbitin attacks offered any advise about how to get the rifle shooting.
And not a one of you seem to be concerned about the length of time Iron Mike has went and still no answer on his gun from the factory,
And even more suprising is not a one of you are even curious about the smith he supposeddly sent the rifle to for warranty work that pronounced the rifle to be fine....
Not a one of you ..

[montana_charlie]

Kenny has a thread here on the same subject what you goint to go tell him?
I have no plans to say anything to him. Is he the only one you could get to join you?



And even more suprising is not a one of you are even curious about the smith he supposeddly sent the rifle to for warranty work that pronounced the rifle to be fine....
Not a one of you ..
All those other handicaps, and blind, too?
Try reading Posts #9, #13, #37, #59, and #78.

CM

[bigted]

:hijack:...[smilie=2:...8-)...:coffeecom


ALL I CAN SAY IS...WOWWW !!!

[iron mike]

you guys are a riot!sure am glad for you being here,the gun ships out tomorrow to lee,so, i'll be shooting my m1a and doing some cmp and national match stuff to keep me distracted till lee pulls a rabbit out of the hat for me.thanks

[Don McDowell]

I have no plans to say anything to him. Is he the only one you could get to join you?



All those other handicaps, and blind, too?
Try reading Posts #9, #13, #37, #59, and #78.

CM

No I don't suppose you'ld have balls enough to post on Kenny's thread.:brokenima

[Don McDowell]

you guys are a riot!sure am glad for you being here,the gun ships out tomorrow to lee,so, i'll be shooting my m1a and doing some cmp and national match stuff to keep me distracted till lee pulls a rabbit out of the hat for me.thanks

Ok now.
We've asked you about 3 times now. How about the details on the guy you sent the rifle to for warranty work the first time.
You sort of owe it to other shooters to finger this guru of gun manufacturing....

[Don McDowell]

got a quigley,w/the seole tang sight, the taps on the tang for mounting the sight looked off center, so sent it to a gunsmith for warrantee work, month late i get it back,the is still a major problem, i now realize that the reciever is cast crooked, and the tang is so far to the east that one could mever shoot accuratley using a tang sight, all of the windage adjustment will not fix it, emailed pedersoli and am waiting for their cure.....any body have any experience here with a pedersoli lemon?

So who was this gunsmith?

[Plinkster]

It's been mentioned in 4 separate posts now

[Buckshot]

..............Don't know about Pedersoli. Maybe they have someone besides Lee Shaver? I'm not edjumakated in all the "In's and Outs" of it, so maybe the distributer the Perdersoli was originally purchased from had his own guy? As Montana Charlie mentioned my Uberti earlier, I was advised by the folks at Cimarron (distributor) to first send it to Banana River Outfitters, somewhere in Indiana.

Apparently they do work for Uberti, as the guy was complaining about how they had to send an entire shipment of Uberti revolvers (over 200) back to Italy. They did nothing for me but to re-crown the barrel. So I still had a bad barrel, but it had a new crown. After firing it again with 100 rounds (10 different generic smokless loads) it was no better. This time Cimarron had me send it to Lonnie Ammons at Tejas Longrifles in Texas, and they'd had a new barrel ordered for it.

I have nothing but good to say about Cimarron's customer service, but I did feel a bit used. I had to pay over $70 in shipping to 2 different places and lost the use of the rifle for over 9 months, due to a barrel that should have never made it out of the factory. I did learn over time that Uberti couldn't produce 2 good barrels in a row if their life depended on it, let alone a competitive one. At this point, I wouldn't buy a new Uberti on a bet.

I own 2 Pedersoli rifles. A Sharps 45-70 Business rifle, and a Super Match rolling block in 40-65 chambering. I shoot no competition matches with them, and have only shot them to 300 yards. They're very fine rifles, and I've made the effort to load ammunition for them to the very best of my ability (smokless only) and their accuracy has been exceptional.

I had an 01 FFL from 1980 until 2001. During that time in the 90's I did several transfers for a few shooters involved in BPC rifle silhuette. Of the 7 or 8 I did, all but 2 were Sharps rifles from C. Sharps or Shiloh, and were superbly finished rifles. At the time the wait was like 3 years to get one. Of the 2 Lone Star RB's I handled (both going to the same guy at different times) one was without doubt the most magnificent firearm I'd ever seen, let alone been able to hold.

I was never in a position to take part in BPCR silhuette, and to be honest while I was more then mildly interested, the 'bug' never really bite. I did think several times about trying to aquire a Shiloh Sharps, the long wait pretty well killed the idea. However I'm pretty sure that had I become involved I'd have bought a Shiloh, C.Sharps, or a Lone Star. I'll admit to having both the Sharps rifle outfits' catalogs at one time :-)

................Buckshot

[Longwood]

I have a Pedersoli 45-70 Sharps replica.
I also have a
Uberti Hiwall in 45-70.
Winchester Lowall 17HML (imported replica)
Taurus Thunderbolt in 45 colt
Rossi model 92 in 45 colt
Rossi Gallery 22.
And,,, one lone Savage.
They are all fun guns that look fine to me and the friends that like shooting them. Would I own all of them if they were made in the US? Not even close!
I have owed some really expensive rifles and do know quality. But,,, I don't compete anymore so accuracy is not near as critical as it once was. I simply like shooting and having a good time and the more guns the merrier.
I could buy a Shilo to impress my friends with but,,,, why not get hold of Pedersoli and tell them I want a super nice rifle and am willing to spend two thousand over what one of their standard rifle costs to show my Shilo rifle shooting friends.
I bet it would be a nice one that shot very well.

[Don McDowell]

II could buy a Shilo to impress my friends with but,,,, why not get hold of Pedersoli and tell them I want a super nice rifle and am willing to spend two thousand over what one of their standard rifle costs to show my Shilo rifle shooting friends.
I bet it would be a nice one that shot very well.

Longwood not picking directly on you , but here you have repeated the just flat wrong internet gospel.
IF a person looks at actual prices of actual guns available, as has been pointed out here before you can get Shiloh's and C Sharps for less money than what a Pedersoli is costing. The exchange rate of the Euro and the dollar have brought things around this way for 4 or 5 years now. But folks just go on their merry ol way repeating the same bogus stuff.
To get a Shiloh that would cost two thousand dollars over a pedersoli would be something that would be better off in an art gallery.
My newest Shiloh cost me 2747 delivered to the house with MVA longrange buffalo soule and hadley eyecup, with the MVA globe installed and the barrel drilled and tapped for scope blocks, and I also ordered the traditional checkered steel buttplate.
My #3 Shiloh cost a smidge over 1900 nothing added just the basic rifle.
Shiloh and C Sharps both have a small number of rifles on the rack ready to ship, and even if there's nothing there when you look the turn around time on Shiloh's now is something just over a year, C Sharps has been known to ship in about 30 days.
Pedersoli's are for the most part decent rifles altho we've seen time and time again the trials and tribulations folks go thru just trying to get something as simple as a lever spring of firing pin (if you send the broken one from Shiloh or C Sharps the new one will be in your mailbox in a few days no charge) Pedersolis made some financial sense when you could get 2 of them for the cost of a mt built gun and the MT guns were talking 3 and 4 years to deliver, but folks things have changed and changed big time.
So in the end you guys that like to bash the Montana built guns, all I ask is if you're going to do so do so with actual facts and not keep spreading this internet myth stuff....

[hightime]

Peace man.......... It's nice to know that they're keeping up with demand and the prices are resonable. For those in the market I hope they will check them out before they send money to Italy. I would. Like I said earlier I have a Ped and I'm going to keep it. Please don't knock me or my gun.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Owen NOBODY at NO TIME knocked you or your gun......not here and not me, and not anybody else I've seen anywhere else.....

[hightime]

So peace then?
I know I've got some good advice and thanked you for it in the past. I hope that will continue.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Of course peace. Never asked for anything other than....And yes I'm always glad to be able to help someone if I can, well there are a few exceptions to that but they already know who they are...

[montana_charlie]

Kenny has a thread here on the same subject what you goint to go tell him?

I have no plans to say anything to him. Is he the only one you could get to join you?
No I don't suppose you'ld have balls enough to post on Kenny's thread.:brokenima
Wasserberger posted to carry on a conversation with EDK.
EDK has not come running to me to ask for help, and I don't expect him to.

Are you trying to egg me into saying something you can run home with ... again?

Last time we had this 'prices' discussion, I made a remark along the lines of how your argument only works if you compare a top-of-the-line Pedersoli offering with a 'bargain basement' Shiloh model.

You bunny-hopped to the Shiloh forum (so fast you scorched your little cotton tail) to show your buds a quote that had me 'degrading' Shiloh guns. The top members of the clic got real mad at me, too, until I posted a link to the actual thread (on this forum) so they could read it for themselves.

I see no need to be baited again by a little ankle-biting lapdog ... or his master.

CM

[hightime]

Ok Don since we're in a better mood. Tell me more about the bullet mold for Ped. Sharps. I have been hanging my bullets out there quite a ways, so the jump to rifling isn't so much. Is there a post on this new mold?

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Owen that mould is likely not available anymore it's been a few years back and the guy that made that victory mold for Pedersoli went on to other things in life.
But for the most part what we've found is that a .460 bullet is almost a requirement due to the large diameter of the Pedersoli chamber. .461 might even be a little better, but depending on the actual groove diameter of your barrel going that large may cause some finning on the bullet and back your accuracy up altho the leading in the throat should cease.
I think that possibly if you did a search on bpcr.net you may turn up a thread or two about that bullet and there should be some drawings of it. You might also look on BACO's web and see if there may be a set of blocks for that under the Pedersoli moulds.

[Don McDowell]

Chicken thief good point and one I should keep in mind Mr. Maxwell has been a particularly rude individual for a good many years and as you can see (this part is sort of comical because he threatened me with all sorts of vile and evil harm on another board about what he'ld do to me if I came here and started slamming him around....) he's just a little bit of a gossipy ol widow bitch and makes a ton of stupid accusations that upon further investigation bear absolutely no merit.....

[Don McDowell]

Owen one other thing you might do is drop Bernie at Old West moulds an email and ask him about a bullet for the Pedersoli. If I recollect proper, Mike Rix,Dennis Wiley and a couple other of the fellas from that area came up with a bullet or two that worked well in the Pedersoli chamber, and Dennis shot his way onto the US Creedmoor team in 06 with his Pedersoli.

[waksupi]

Watch the insults.

If you guys started an argument on another board, take it back there.

[montana_charlie]

Tell me more about the bullet mold for Ped. Sharps.
How much do you want to know?
With development paid for by Pedersoli and the project managed by Dick Trenk, the bullet was designed by Dr. Dick Gunn to have a slightly better B.C. than it's counterparts ... the Lyman Postell and PJ Creedmoor designs.

This is a diagram of the bullet

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=1230

While Victory Molds (the original maker of moulds for the Pedersoli/Gunn/Trenk bullet) did go out of business after being overwhelmed with orders, the design has always been 'in the public domain'. Therefore any mould maker can cut the design without infringing on anybody's 'rights'.

The main difference between it and the Postell/Creedmoor is the .460" diameter, and the fact that the ogive is shaped to fit the leade angle of the Pedersoli throat.
Both of those features are for bullet to bore alignment ... nothing to do with the modest (.236") freebore, which is handled by setting the bullet out one and a half grease grooves ... as in this image of that bullet in the Pedersoli throat it was designed for.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/45-70_Govt__PedersoliwithPGTBullet.gif

(You might note that the Pedersoli chamber is cut with a 10 degree transition step ... which is 'kinder' to paper patched bullets than the more common 45 degree step.)

If you don't have a favorite machinist who can cut moulds for you, Paul Jones offers the PGT bullet as what he calls the Pedersoli Chamber, in his mould number 45021.

http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/45021a.jpg

Finally, there is reason to believe that Pedersoli has recently changed the shape of their chamber.
When that happened, and how it was changed is unknown to me, but Paul Jones has said it to some of his potential customers.


I'm sure McDowell can fill in any details I missed ...

CM

[hightime]

Do you think it's the same for the 45-110?

Owen

[montana_charlie]

Do you think it's the same for the 45-110?

Owen
Think what's the same? A change in shape of the throat?
A chamber cast should answer that.
CM

[Longwood]

Did I read here that the Pedersoli rifles were manufactured with two different chambers.
A style that they used to use and a new style.
Is that true and if so do any of you experts know the S/N when they switched.

[Don McDowell]

Do you think it's the same for the 45-110?

Owen

Owen you just hit something I don't think has ever been addressed on the net about Pedersoli's. We pretty much know they copied an early shiloh rifle in 45-70, so the majority of what's been done as in the Victory bullet has been with that cartridge in mind. The 110 is a fairly recent addition to their lineup and not one that sees alot of use.
Would be interesting to see a good cerrosafe chamber cast of your chamber.
? did they just make their 45-70 reamer longer, or did they start fresh with something new????

[hightime]

I pulled the bullet out very far then pushed it in and set the bullet. I can't remember now just how far I made the jump to rifling, but I have the bullet pulled out with one grease groove outside the case. Here's a pic.

Owen

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I can tell you where the Pedersoli 45-110 specs came from. Exactly. Maxwell would most likely have a cow but it is the truth.

3 loaded cartridges with different bullets, delivered by Kenny Durham. From the Hands of Kenny Wasserburger.

While Like I said on the other Thread, Dick and I did not always agree, however we were Friends.

A little Urban Legend stuff for you Pedersoli, 110 shooters.

KW
The Lunger

[montana_charlie]

If you guys started an argument on another board, take it back there.
Nope, that one died over a year ago ( http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17426 ).

I'm just making it clear that I don't plan to get egged into another one like it.



Did I read here that the Pedersoli rifles were manufactured with two different chambers.
A style that they used to use and a new style.
Is that true and if so do any of you experts know the S/N when they switched.
Never having convinced anybody to make chamber casts of newly-purchased rifles, the only source that I know of for that 'new chamber information' is Paul Jones. Several people who have contacted him aboput his Pedersoli Chamber mould have come back saying he told them that chamber is no longer being used.

Since nobody has come along to take the place of good old Dick Trenk, we no longer have any way to get information of that kind from a reliable source.

You (any individual) can check with Gloria at Pedersoli to find out when 'your' serial number was manufactured. Then, you can make a casting of your chamber.
After a few people do that (if they only would) we might be able to confirm that there HAS been a change ... and figure out when it occurred.

CM

[Red River Rick]

Then, you can make a casting of your chamber.

After a few people do that (if they only would) we might be able to confirm that there HAS been a change ... and figure out when it occurred.

CM

MC:

I bought my Long Range Competition in 08', remember.

I'll do a impact impession of the chamber and post a pic. The cerrosafe casting never work for me. They end up having more wrinkles than an 90 year old!

RRR

[bigted]

That is what I expected from you and Windy too.
That is the attempt to link match scores and wins directly to accuracy - and the matches are silhouette matches no less where anything that knocks a target down counts. In this form of shooting there is no direct measurement of the rifles accuracy.

kinda curious...who be this "windy" charactere...would like to go back and read his posts!

[Tom Myers]

Last year I purchased a slightly used Pedersoli Deluxe Engraved 45-70 caliber. Excellent fit and finish.
Below is an image with the dimensions of an impact impression of the chamber loaded with a Starline case and Lyman Postel bullet.
Also shown is a large image of the Neck, Throat and leade area.

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/45-70/45-70_Pedersoli~_Starline~L.png

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/45-70/45-70_~Starline_~Lyman_4571.png

[montana_charlie]

Thanks, Tom.
Your image indicates that the freebore has been reduced to about a tenth, and the leade angle changed to 1.5 degrees.
That is a very 'standard' style of chamber, but it still has the (gentle) 10 degree transition from chamber to throat.

Now, if we can just figure out how long ago they switched to that chamber ...

CM

[Don McDowell]

Just a couple of quick links for those that may or maynot care to investigate the Shiloh v Pedersoli cost thing.
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=224&cat=9&page=1
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=221&cat=9&page=1

[montana_charlie]

Just a couple of quick links for those that may or maynot care to investigate the Shiloh v Pedersoli cost thing.
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=224&cat=9&page=1
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=221&cat=9&page=1
Can't let it lay, can you?
Well, you only provided enough links to compare two Shiloh rifles against each other.

Here is the link for the Dixie gun with the twenty-two hundred dollar plus price that you wanted to compare with the #1 Sporter.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=989

Notice that it is fully engraved on the buttplate, the lever, and the receiver. Add that 'enhancement' to the Shiloh gun and tell us what it comes to.

Here is the very same gun without the fancy stock and engraving.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=2576

The description even says it's based on the Sporter #1 configuration.

The minimum price difference in basic models, not counting 'enhancements' is still around eight hundred dollars ... like it always has been.

CM

[hightime]

Thanks Don. Nice to know. I don't think I need any more right now, but maybe someone else does.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

Owen do you know what sharps rifles and jello have in common?


There's always room for more.

[hightime]

It's just that at this time, I'm wondering if I havn't gone too far. I can never go back 'cause I don't ever sell.
As far as the big Sharps, I have never shot outside my own range. 650 yds is the limit on my range. I do have a son who comes and gives me a run for my money.

Owen

[Don McDowell]

There are some creedmoor and midrange matches not terrible far from you, but you have to go to the western side of North Dakota and into eastern Mt to get into any gong matches.

[EDG]

Tom,
Excellent drawings....coming from someone that spent a life time working with design drawings. How did you measure the lead slug from your chamber to get the throat dimensions?

[Tom Myers]

Tom,
Excellent drawings....coming from someone that spent a life time working with design drawings. How did you measure the lead slug from your chamber to get the throat dimensions?

Thanks for the kudos. It took about 5 years of development to work up the software that renders the drawings from dimensions entered and stored in databases.

The slug was from an impact impression with a plugged cartridge case and a bore sized cylinder of pure lead. The radial dimensions were made with a micrometer with a 0.0001 scale and the linear dimensions were measured with a digital caliper under magnification. The angles are calculated by the software which uses trigonometry and the rate of slope from the stored radial and linear dimensions.


A chamber image is drawn from stored database values to scale of 1 pixel to 0.001" with the Chamber Dimension software and then saved on the computer as a bitmap file.
Next, a cartridge image is drawn to the same scale from data stored in the Cartridge Dimension software and saved in the same bitmap format.
Then the bullet image is drawn to scale by the Cast Bullet Design (http://www.tmtpages.com/#draw)software and saved on the computer.
Finally the Chamber Overlay software is used to overlay the cartridge and bullet images onto the chamber drawing and arrange the images into their proper positions.
After carefully measuring and storing all the dimensional values, it is an easy task to retrieve the data, draw the images and overlay them in order to remove any uncertainty concerning bullet design and fit when determining what is needed to fit a throat-leade configuration.

[EDG]

Just a couple of quick links for those that may or maynot care to investigate the Shiloh v Pedersoli cost thing.
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=224&cat=9&page=1
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=221&cat=9&page=1

I have often wondered if you guys are sales reps for Shiloh.
You never mention comparisons of used rifle prices. Several years ago I got what appears to have been a pre-owned but never fired Cimarron Billy Dixon in 45-70 and a LR Deluxe in 50-70. The Dixon model has oil finished Turkish or Circassian walnut.
The 50-70 included also included sights that meet my needs.

[Don McDowell]

I have often wondered if you guys are sales reps for Shiloh.
You never mention comparisons of used rifle prices. Several years ago I got what appears to have been a pre-owned but never fired Cimarron Billy Dixon in 45-70 and a LR Deluxe in 50-70. The Dixon model has oil finished Turkish or Circassian walnut.
The 50-70 included also included sights that meet my needs.

And the loss in value of a used Pedersoli, against the prices maintained by used Shiloh's and C Sharps, and you're still friggin clueless...:confused:

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Don Ole EDM, is beyond clueless, anything that meets his needs aint Much. Really never seen anyone so secure in being in the dark on so many things. Ahh lets hope he did not reproduce.

I do feel bad for the fella that bought that Lemon Putter Chello, and I sure hope they do him right. Somehow that thing passed inspection, ole Garsponia musta been taken a Vino Break.

KW
The Lunger
The Lunger

[gon2shoot]

You guys should step back and look at your post from an uninvolved point of view, not real impressive.
Differences of opinion are part of what makes life interesting, but I'm not sure I need it on a 6th grade level.

[Don McDowell]

Kenny that is the horror of this entire thread, a bad gun made it all the way across the Atlantic, then it has already made one trip from the owner to a warranty repair, and is now on it's second trip. Total time elapsed is over 2 months the OP still is the proud owner of a smucked up rifle.
I feel bad for the owner. I've got one of those imported rifles with a bad lock and trigger,,, and if I want it fixed proper it'll cost something along the lines of 400$... no thanks. I put that 400 towards a rifle I should of bought in the first place....
And I know that if something is wrong with these Mt. built guns, it'll get fixed asap.... I can send in busted firing pins and have a replacement fresh from the factory inside one weeks time no cost other than the postage to send the busted one up...
Ted's 20 year old rifle had a problem that was missed, so when the 3rd owner finally decides something's not right ,,, well we all know what happened.

[Longwood]

Kenny that is the horror of this entire thread,

Aaaaaaaaggghhh the HORROR!
Aaaaaaaaggghhh,,,,
I can't take any more!!!!!
Please, please, please, someone,,,,, make it stop, please!
.
.
.
.
.
.
Please people,,, we have heard it already.

[Don McDowell]

Yup we've heard it.... and the truth of it never ever changes now does it?
And yes it is a horror a person throws down 2 grand of hard earned money for a rifle that shouldn't have left the factory, and after 2 long months still doesn't have a shootable rifle...
Plus we're still waiting for the proof to the claim that the Pedersoli will out shoot any Shiloh or C Sharps... Waiting , and waiting and waiting.....

[waksupi]

I think you guys have done more to drive people away from the sport, than any others I have ever seen. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Take this to another board.