I got ripped Zn instead of Sn

[Paints-n-cows]

On June 18, I bought what was supposed to be 18 oz of 97% tin off of eBay. I paid just about market price so I thought it was no big deal.

Since it was in a muffin pan size, I tried to figure out how to reduce it down to fit portions of it in my 10 lb lead pot. I considered taking and drilling a hole in two places and then using my electric hacksaw to cut it into portion. My 1/4" drill barely made a dent in it and I thought that was odd.

I have some pure lead that I got that was sheeting and had smelted it down in my dutch oven (that holds about 100 lbs) so I considered remelting that lead down that I already had in ingots, mixing in this "tin" and then putting back in ingots but shelved that idea.

Instead I figured that I would use my small cast iron skillet, melt the ingot and then pour it in my regular pot with a similar quantity of pure lead. I then was going to cast it in my .500 S&W mold and those slugs would have been about the correct amount to treat my pot each time that I filled it.

Well, I put it in the skillet and put the propane torch to it. It took forever to get started melting so I put it over my turkey fryer base. When it finally melted, I poured that in my regular pot with the lead. It immediately solidified the melted lead in my pot.

It took almost 800 degrees to get it to drip out the pour spout. I finally took my pot and upended it back into the small skillet just to get it out.

The reason that I bring this to a public forum is that this guy has sold at least 10 other people the same or similar stuff.

I am pissed! I only lost $22 with shipping and another couple of pounds of lead but what a ripoff.

Its probably too late for eBay or Paypal to do anything and I am not going to pay for an analysis to prove my point. Everybody does need to be aware of what happened though.

Here is the link to the ad that I made the purchase from.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320932639612

[Mooseman]

Its not too late to file a complaint and purchases are guaranteed if you use Paypal.
Always help stop the crooks !

[bumpo628]

You have 45 days to make a claim, IIRC. Ebay and Paypal side with the buyer almost exclusively, so just tell them what happened and if there is any money left in that guy's paypal account they will give you a refund. File a claim on ebay first, then on paypal.

[Paints-n-cows]

I just filed the eBay claim but Paypal site says that a claim is already open with eBay so it looks like it is in a holding pattern.

[L1A1Rocker]

E=bay is very good on protecting the buyer in these situations. I had a guy claim to have shipped me something that never showed up. Ad said it would ship within three days UPS. Said that he got delayed shipping, then claimed it was USPS with no tracking number. I opened a claim and ebay finally refunded my money after their time elapsed.

[imashooter2]

This is the danger of buying ingots. You don't know who cast them, or what they cast. Buy solder as solder. Buy type metal as type. Foolproof? No, but there aren't many folks out there faking solder bars or wire...

[Defcon-One]

Once you melted it and MIXED it, I think you had decided to keep it!

If I were going to try to get my money back, I would have kept it as it was, melted maybe, but unmixed/unalloyed.

I saw the pic and it looked like Tin to me. Yellow hew and all. Also, no others have complained yet and many bought identical ingots. Maybe you are the first to actually try and use it.

I once bought a home cast bar of 50/50 Solder from a guy and it sat for 2 years before I melted it. Fortunately, mine was authentic solder.

Also, this does not make sense to me, "When it finally melted, I poured that in my regular pot with the lead. It immediately solidified the melted lead in my pot." Zinc would be much hotter than lead, why would it solidify the lead mix?

[Paints-n-cows]

Also, this does not make sense to me, "When it finally melted, I poured that in my regular pot with the lead. It immediately solidified the melted lead in my pot." Zinc would be much hotter than lead, why would it solidify the lead mix?

I would suspect that once it was introduced into the lead (which was at a cooler temperature because of its lower melting point , it cooled the zinc down enough to reduce back to its semi-solid state. That was one of my first clues as to its true identity.

Since I didn't check this compound's actual temperature when it finally melted, until I actually introduced it into my regular lead, it didn't cross my mind that I had been duped. Only when I observed its reaction with the regular lead did I put the clues together.

As far as anyone else complaining, who knows the reason. I don't know how to contact those people or would ask.

Perhaps "Defcon-One", you know the individual the sold this to me and you can ask him?

[Defcon-One]

...I would suspect that once it was introduced into the lead (which was at a cooler temperature because of its lower melting point , it cooled the zinc down enough to reduce back to its semi-solid state....

Got it! So the Lead actually cooled down your new Zinc and it all solidified! That was the vector that I was missing!



Perhaps "Defcon-One", you know the individual that sold this to me and you can ask him?

Wish I did. I'd talk to him about sending your money back! Nothing I hate more than a scammer. Life is too short for **** like that!


*****************Update******************


Edited to add: I said **** not ****, but they blanked it out automatically, so now it looks like I said **** when I really didn't. I only said ****!

**** is not a swear word, is it?

Sorry, I was fascinated by a new feature that I just discovered on this site. I'm a bit surprised it took me over a year to find it!

[a.squibload]

You should be able to scratch solder with a thumbnail,
not so with zinc.

FYI: **** is pretty bad, but never say *#\@$%*!

[geargnasher]

What was in the fleabay ad pic might well have been tin, but certainly not what you got. Follow through with your request for refund.

Gear

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`d still take it to a junk yard to have them shoot an anaylasis of it to be sure what it is and on paper for proof.Robert

[pressonregardless]

I contacted the seller and received this response -

"Thank you for the link. I have resolved this issue via eBay and PayPal. I stand behind the material, and do not take those accusations lightly. I will be following up with my laboratory. Thank you, again.
- albstudios2i9n"

Paints-n-cows did this fellow straighten things up with you?

[Ole]

I've bought solder and raw wheel weights from ebaY in the past, but would be very cautious buying ingots and taking someone's word for it as to what's in them.

[ak_milsurp]

I don't know about that.... I had a seller try to cancel an auction after I'd already won it via "But it now" . When I refused,
they refunded my money anyway. via paypal. I said what gives? you made a valid contract when I won the auction!

"I'm not paying shipping to Alaska and losing money! It would cost more than the item you bought. I don't care if the auction said free shipping in USA."

I said, "That's not my problem, is it? I read the auction details and no where did it say "Except alaska, Hawaii or territories"
So By terms of the Ebay contract, you are required to ship it to me at the cost YOU posted and I paid for, whether or not you lose money on the deal".

He said, "I'm NOT gonna lose money on a sale. You can't force me to do that! You should know that it costs more to ship to Alaska and not bid" ***???

He said you wanna sue me, go ahead.... You post negative feed back on me, and I'll post negative feedback on you because you're an *******, and not willing to realize I made a mistake in my auction listing and let me cancel the auction"

What Kinda Bullkrap is that!

So .... when I complained, all E-bay said was, "Well sir, he did refund your money" I said, can't you sanction or suspend him for not honoring his Ebay terms? Ebay rep said, " Sir, You can leave him negative feedback". Gee what a big help that was !! LOL Paypal said.. "Well sir, he DID refund your money" Yes he did.. after refusing to honor a valid sales contract... grrrrrr


I finally said screw it. it's not worth my time energy and cash to fight over a few hundred bucks.....





You have 45 days to make a claim, IIRC. Ebay and Paypal side with the buyer almost exclusively, so just tell them what happened and if there is any money left in that guy's paypal account they will give you a refund. File a claim on ebay first, then on paypal.

[Paints-n-cows]

As a matter of fact, I did. I got a full refund from him along with an email. I will include excerpts that kind of raise more questions than answers.

"...Therefore I am sending a sample of the exact same material, made at the exact same time, in the exact same mold as the material that was shipped to you to a metallurgical laboratory for scientific analysis and quantifiable reporting".

Now since he claimed in the advertisement that it was "Approximately 97% pure tin (sn) ingot with trace amounts of copper (cu), antimony (sb), and lead (pb). ", how would you know that unless it had already been lab verified?

My suspicions are that this individual probably bought this material and was trying to make a buck based on what someone that he got it from told him.

I really start questioning when others feel the need to contact the seller from eBay. Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye?

And I see no need for me expend any more energy or money on this dead horse. I brought this information to the public so that others may make informed decisions based on my experience. If anyone chooses to use or not use that information, that is his choice. However, I will not be stifled by person(s) just because they think that I don't have the right to be heard.

Oh and one more thing, this seller must lurk about this board because in his nasty little email to me, he used the title to this thread. Perhaps he is reading this as you are. [smilie=s:

[EDG]

Most of you have melted solder and know how easily it cleans up if it has garbage in it.
I got some supposedly 50/50 solder off of ebay and it was nasty. I could never get it clean. The guy got his first negative feed back from me.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Gee,
all you fellow members buying alloy from flea-bay...what gives?
the sellin' and swappin' section seems to always have something to offer.
I have bought some different alloys from many different members here,
always a good experience.
including near pure Tin, then another time some pewter, then some Babbit, range scrap, COWW in the raw, COWW in ingots, SOWW in ingots and some that was just identified as scrap but with a % analysis. Never had a serious problem, one time had a lost package...seller made good...afterwhich I decided to always ask for insurance.
Anyway...enough rambling,
I recommend buying from fellow members.
Jon

[turtlezx]

ebay will most likely side with you and give a full refund with shipping included. BUT
to get it you will have to return the item . cant do that you melted it down
and you will pay for return shipping / TO get back $22

2nd option is to request 1/2 the total amount and you keep the item so you get $11 back and keep it

[Paints-n-cows]

Turtlezx, I got the full refund already, all $22. That came this morning with a snotty email. And the metal is still in my possession. I have no use for it so right now it is about a 5" diameter, 1/4" thick piece of **** that is just taking up space.

Luckily, I melted it down by itself and mixed it in with about 3 lbs of pure lead instead of just throwing it in a pot of 50 lbs of lead...that would have really got me fuzzed up.

[turtlezx]

you made out well as can be expected then
leave em bad feed back and call it a day

[leadbutt]

I say once again. I dont buy metals in ingot form from no one. Well except lead from the swap and sell on this site. But thats lead only.

L. Bottoms

[turtlezx]

Problem is theres a lotta folks out there looking for lead.
and they dont all have this site to make safe deals on.
So they take there chances on e-bay

HOPEFULLY SITE MEMBERS WILL LEARN FOR THIS PROBLEM AND DEAL HERE

[bumpo628]

He said you wanna sue me, go ahead.... You post negative feed back on me, and I'll post negative feedback on you because you're an *******, and not willing to realize I made a mistake in my auction listing and let me cancel the auction"


Nowadays sellers can't even leave negative feedback - positive or none are your options. Of course, buyers can still leave ***. or neg. feedback. They did this to prevent your exact situation. I believe they call it feedback extortion.

[turtlezx]

THE ABOVE IS TRUE SELLER CANT LEAVE NEG FEEDBACK> bUT THEY CAN MAKE BAD COMENTS ABOUT YOU . JUST WONT EFFECT YOUR FEEBACK RATING

SORRY FOR YELLING

[Defcon-One]

Glad that you got your money back! Since you did and really quickly, I'd say the guy knew what he was selling and once confronted made it right. That is good enough. It is sad that his e-mail was so negative, but I see that more and more these days.

I have purchased about 200 pounds of Linotype off of e-bay. All from the same seller, a retired police officer. All in strip form with good photos. Also, some solder in factory bars. It was all great stuff.

I, like others here, would not buy anything in ingot form, especially after what you went through (Thanks for sharing it. It might save someone from doing the same!). I buy most of what I need here on this site. I only go elsewhere if I can't find it here.

I never have sold on e-bay and don't believe that I ever will because of there position on guns.

[guidogoose]

Sorry that you got ripped off. Question though... Why would you leave the guy positive feedback before testing the metal? It's possible that the seller didnt test the metal when they got it and went off of their sources word. Other people may just guess as to what the metal is.

I recently came across this for pewter...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230821016769&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

I had to send the seller a message to inform them that it was AL and not pewter. Never heard of pewter withstanding 1000 degrees. LOL

[Bill*]

I had to send the seller a message to inform them that it was AL and not pewter. Never heard of pewter withstanding 1000 degrees. LOL

Well, to his credit-he mentions your letting him know that in the listing now.

[Freightman]

He made a mistake, hopefully, he refunded your money, I would this time give him the benefit of the doubt, and leave a neutral feedback. Do not think I would mark him as a favorite seller though.

[Paints-n-cows]

Why would you leave the guy positive feedback before testing the metal?

I trusted the individual and when it arrived, I took him at his word. It arrived quickly and looked like his picture. I would strongly suspect that the other people did the same and that is why he doesn't have any negative feedback. If and when they figured it out, it may have been too late. That may also explain why he was so quick to refund my money. Perhaps he was living on the edge with eBay and/or Paypal already.

Years ago I bought an 870 stock from some people in New York. It took over 3 weeks to get to me and was for a 20 gauge and not a 12 as they advertised. When I contacted them and asked them why they didn't leave me any positive feedback. They told me that they didn't leave feedback until the purchaser did. Then I told them about the stock being wrong, they basically told me to pound sand. I didn't use Paypal so I was SOL.

[Gelandangan]

Paints-n-cows
You could still test your mixture by pouring some Muriatic acid to it.
If it is zinc then it will fizz and bubbles.
If it is tin then nothing happens.

[DukeInFlorida]

It is Aluminum:

Established in 1954, the Wilton Brass Company located at 18th and Franklin streets in Columbia, Pennsylvania, offered brass objects made for industry and consumers. This company was a collaboration between Mr. Frederick M. Wilton and his nephew, Mr. Ralph (Bud) Wilton. In 1963 this company developed another metal from an aluminum based alloy which it called 'Armetale'. By the late 1960s the 'Armetale' brand products overshadowed the brass offerings. The company continued to be known as the 'Wilton Brass Company' until well into the 1980s.

From their web site:

http://www.armetale.com/armetale-history


Sorry that you got ripped off. Question though... Why would you leave the guy positive feedback before testing the metal? It's possible that the seller didnt test the metal when they got it and went off of their sources word. Other people may just guess as to what the metal is.

I recently came across this for pewter...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230821016769&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

I had to send the seller a message to inform them that it was AL and not pewter. Never heard of pewter withstanding 1000 degrees. LOL